Balanced diet

HST_Rihad

HST_Rihad

Active Member
Hi, all. I tend to get fat as I eat during bulking. That may be due to using too much carbs, which tend to get converted to fat by insulin and stored in the fat cells. I'm not counting anything, just trying to eat the usual BB stuff: chicken, beef, fish, buckwheat, etc. Normally not using supplements, except for multi-vitamins. I do gain some muscle, but fat gains come at a much quicker pace, mostly visible on my belly and face. What if I try to eat less food rich in carbs substituting them with food rich in protein? Same caloric level AFAIK.
 
Fat and muscle gain on a bulking diet is not determined by what food you eat, it is determined by your own p-ratio (genetics) and your training, this is assuming you are getting enough protein. If you change some of the carbs out to fats or to different kinds of carbs but keep calorie levels the same, you will still gain the same amount of fat vs muscle.

If diet could influence what kind of weight you gain, then people wouldn't need to lift weights. They could just eat a correct bulking diet and watch the muscle pile on. I've bulked on fast food, I've bulked on a "clean diet" and I've bulked where I got my extra carbs from Mountain Dew. Fat gain was never effected.

Do realize that 1 kg of fat looks like a lot more than 1 kg of muscle, so most likely you are gaining a decent amount of muscle, and some fat along with it, but you see the fat more easily and so you think you've gained more fat than muscle. It is unlikely that you are gaining more fat than muscle if you are not eating a massive caloric excess and if you are lifting weights.
 
I'm hardly getting at 2000 kcals a day while my bulking norm is believed to be 2,500 Calories (160 lbs or 73 kg). So I'm rather under-eating. But I'm a sedentary type spending most of my time in front of the computer. Here's my belly in all its glory:
DSCF3323.JPGDSCF3324.JPG

It's more like visceral fat and not so much subcutaneous, as I can't just pinch the skin, I'd have to grab the whole thing with my hands.
 
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I also tend to gain a decent amount of fat if I don't micro-manage my bulking. My advice is to drastically increase the ratio of protein in your diet. I put on much less fat when bulking on a high-protein diet. I'm not exactly sure why it works that way. On this issue I'm prepared to take what works and not wonder too much.
 
That's probably because carb intake causes insulin levels to be increased, and insulin blocks fat utilization. Moreover extra carbs coming in (when storage depots are full) get converted to more fat and stored... No way around that than to keep gradually decreasing carbs and see when water and fats start coming down. Try googling for Lyle McDonalds' The Ketogenic Diet. It explains bodily responses to carb overuse and decrease (not necessarily ketogenic diet per se). I was just wondering if anyone else had that fat gaining problem.
 
Most men will gain fat around their middle first and your posture in those pics is also making your stomach stick out more.
 
HST_Rihad said:
That's probably because carb intake causes insulin levels to be increased, and insulin blocks fat utilization. Moreover extra carbs coming in (when storage depots are full) get converted to more fat and stored... No way around that than to keep gradually decreasing carbs and see when water and fats start coming down. Try googling for Lyle McDonalds' The Ketogenic Diet. It explains bodily responses to carb overuse and decrease (not necessarily ketogenic diet per se). I was just wondering if anyone else had that fat gaining problem.
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That's not going to matter while bulking. Fat utilization on a bulk is going to be blunted regardless of the carb intake. This is the nature of taking in excess calories.

That's why I said you aren't going to change fat/muscle gain ratio, assuming adequate protein intake. As Alex pointed out, a higher protein intake will help. You need adequate protein on a bulk or you will not be able to synthesize as much protein in your body. This much is obvious. Google Lyle McDonald's protein book. You have to start every bulking diet with an adequate base of protein intake, then build from there. I recommend starting protein intake as high as 2 grams per lb of bodyweight and then adjusting downward from there if necessary, and yes that recommendation is higher than what Lyle ends up saying in the protein book.
 
Thanks for the tips, guys, now I'm pretty much sure high protein intake is crucial for mass gains. Thanks for mentioning the Protein Book, it would probably me more important for me than the keto diet, until Summer anyway. I believe visceral fat will not go anywhere until I decide to go keto.

BTW, Totentanz, and AlexAustralia, do you feel the need to limit your carb intake in an attempt to limit fat gains while bulking? Not necessarily under 100 g. for it to count as keto, but still do you lower it down a bit?
 
1. Your muscle : fat ratio for bulking is genetically determined. Please re-read what Totentanz has said.

2. I find for me personally that a high-protein based diet keeps me from gaining a ratio of fat that is closest to what is my genetically determined ratio.


YOU CANNOT GAIN MUSCLE ONLY. YOU CANNOT 'LEAN BULK'.
 
AlexAustralia said:
1. Your muscle : fat ratio for bulking is genetically determined. Please re-read what Totentanz has said.
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Isn't it the number of fat cells that's pre-determined and constant, but you still can control their ability to be filled with fat by controlling what you eat?

2. I find for me personally that a high-protein based diet keeps me from gaining a ratio of fat that is closest to what is my genetically determined ratio.
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Uhm, sorry, I didn't get it again: by increasing your protein intake (the "high-protein based diet" part), do you at the same time limit your carb intake?


YOU CANNOT GAIN MUSCLE ONLY. YOU CANNOT 'LEAN BULK'.
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Exactly. Please re-read what I wrote:

do you feel the need to limit your carb intake in an attempt to limit fat gains while bulking?
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Actually the number of fat cells isn't necessarily predetermined... after a certain bodyfat percentage, your body will start to create new fat cells in order to store excess calories. This is why bulking too far (excess of 25% bodyfat) is sort of a bad idea.

I've found that limiting carbs and eating higher fat to make up for the carbs did not increase muscle gains versus fat gains. In fact, I felt as though I experienced better muscle and strength gains when I finally started increasing carbs.
 
@HST_Rihad - I increased the % of protein in my diet. Doing this and having adequate fats and carbs gave me a lower fat gain than on the bulking occasions when I had less protein.

There's only so many times the ppl here can repeat the same things;

-You can't 'clean bulk'
-Higher protein intake will bring you closer to your genetic muscle:fat ratio
-Eat carbs and fat, just a bit less of them. Both of these are essential for bulking.
 
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Totentanz said:
I've found that limiting carbs and eating higher fat to make up for the carbs did not increase muscle gains versus fat gains. In fact, I felt as though I experienced better muscle and strength gains when I finally started increasing carbs.
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Have you tried the pretty obvious: a bit lower carbs & higher protein to make up for the calories, with fat intake left as is?
 
HST_Rihad said:
Have you tried the pretty obvious: a bit lower carbs & higher protein to make up for the calories, with fat intake left as is?
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Preventing excess carbs is different to low-carbs. You're going to have a much harder time putting on muscle or making strength gains with a low-carb approach. If you want to take the weeks to get used of it, you'll probably be fine but why work harder than smarter?

Take whatever your maintenance is, and add protein to get a nice excess.
 
Minimal, sure. But nothing changes the basic thermodynamic proposition that you need to be in surplus to gain muscle, and you need to gain some amount of fat to gain muscle (chemical assistance changes the rules of course).

I'm not saying you can't look fantastic after a bulk. But bulking means putting on some amount of body fat. There simply isn't a magical order of eating and exercising that circumvents physiological function. Optimal? Of course there is.
 
In my experience, trying to micromanaging during a bulk leads to microgains during a bulk. I tried leangains and IF during a bulk, not possible for someone like me who needs 4000-5000 calories during a bulk. If you are smaller and need fewer calories, it could work in theory, never really seen anyone successfully "lean bulk" though. Seems like they always make smaller gains in the same amount of time than a guy who simply bulks and then cuts.
 
Gains at a somewhat reduced pace & being lean at the same time - that fits my bill perfectly. As a hardgainer I'm limited in growth anyway. Martin does look good, although frankly I never liked the look of six-packs on him or on his clients, or the looks of the lean and undergrown muscles on some of them. Some bulkiness wouldn't hurt, if I can manage that.
 
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