Bryan - What to drink?

L

leegee38

Member
Green tea screws with your androgen receptors. Coffee screws with your insulin sensitivity. Is there any hot beverage besides water that you can safely drink regularly?
 
Hot chocolate?
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You could drink decaff coffee...?
 
You could drink decaff coffee...?

I was under the impression that it was the acids in coffee that created the problem, not the caffeine. Is coffee OK as far as you are concerned?
 
Coffee screws with your insulin sensitivity??!

I drink coffee all the time, every day. I allways thought it didn't hurt at all, and if anything, just boosted the metabolism.
 
herbal teas ie. peppermint?

hot water has to be the most underated drink ever - even the bleach-cordial out my taps makes a refreshing treat warmed up ;)
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Norman @ Nov. 13 2004,8:05)]Why, and how, do green tea screw your androgen receptors?
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Green tea can reduce androgen receptor mRNA and the density of receoptors. But you have to use a lot of it. It can also reduce androgen activity. This is why green tea is good for warding off androgen (and estrogen) sensitive cancers such as prostate cancer and breast cancer.

All in all, green tea is good for you though.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Bryan Haycock @ Nov. 13 2004,11:47)]
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[b said:
Quote[/b] (Norman @ Nov. 13 2004,8
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5)]Why, and how, do green tea screw your androgen receptors?
Click to expand...
Green tea can reduce androgen receptor mRNA and the density of receoptors. But you have to use a lot of it. It can also reduce androgen activity. This is why green tea is good for warding off androgen (and estrogen) sensitive cancers such as prostate cancer and breast cancer.
All in all, green tea is good for you though.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the answer. :)

How much is "a lot"? (the DC-guys often drink two liters a day)

Do you have any studies that can back you up?
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Norman @ Nov. 13 2004,12:56)]Do you have any studies that can back you up?
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There are most likely more, buyt here are a few that pretty much spell it out pretty clearly that green tea has demonstrable "anti-steroid hormone" properties. Keep in mind that estrogens and corticosteroids are also a steroid hormones.

1) Hiipakka RA, Zhang HZ, Dai W, Dai Q, Liao S. Structure-activity relationships for inhibition of human 5alpha-reductases by polyphenols. Biochem Pharmacol. 2002 Mar 15;63(6):1165-76.
“Since some of these compounds [EGCG and others] are consumed as part of the normal diet or in supplements, they have the potential to inhibit 5 alpha-reductase activity, which may be useful for the prevention or treatment of androgen-dependent disorders. However, these compounds also may adversely affect male sexual differentiation.”

2) Liao S. The medicinal action of androgens and green tea epigallocatechin gallate. Hong Kong Med J. 2001 Dec;7(4):369-74.
“It is now clear that a specific green tea catechin, (-)epigallocatechin-3-gallate, can modulate the production and biological actions of androgens and other hormones.
Modulation of androgenic activity and administration of (-)epigallocatechin-3-gallate may be useful for the treatment of various hormone-related abnormalities, such as benign prostatic hyperplasia, baldness, and acne, as well as androgen-dependent and -independent prostate cancers.”

3) Ren F, Zhang S, Mitchell SH, Butler R, Young CY. Tea polyphenols down-regulate the expression of the androgen receptor in LNCaP prostate cancer cells. Oncogene. 2000 Apr 6;19(15):1924-32.
“In conclusion, we have described a new property of tea polyphenols that inhibits
androgen action by repressing the transcription of the androgen receptor gene.”

4) Liao S, Hiipakka RA. Selective inhibition of steroid 5 alpha-reductase isozymes by tea
epicatechin-3-gallate and epigallocatechin-3-gallate. Biochem Biophys Res Commun. 1995 Sep 25;214(3):833-8.
“(-)Epigallocatechin-3-gallate also inhibits accessory sex gland growth in the rat. These results suggest that certain tea gallates can regulate androgen action in target organs.”
And from the study you referred to…

5) Kao YH, Hiipakka RA, Liao S Modulation of endocrine systems and food intake by green tea epigallocatechin gallate. Endocrinology. 2000 Mar;141(3):980-7.
“The effect of EGCG on the weight of male accessory sexual organs was due to lowered circulating levels of testosterone. This conclusion is supported by the following observations. 1) Androgens such as TP and DHTP blocked the effect of EGCG on the weight of accessory sexual organs, including prostates. 2) EGCG did not reduce prostate weight in androgen-supplemented castrated Sprague Dawley rats (our unpublished observations). 3) EGCG-induced weight loss of prostate and other androgen-sensitive organs was accompanied by an EGCG-induced lowering of serum testosterone.”
Continuing…
“ Also, by lowering plasma levels of sex steroids and other endocrine factors, such as IGF-I, long term use of EGCG or green tea may be effective in the prevention and suppression of the growth of hormone-dependent and -independent prostate and breast cancer (14, 34, 35). This may relate to the low occurrence of breast and prostate cancer metastasis and mortality in some Asian countries (14, 36) where green tea is consumed regularly. Despite many potential benefits of green tea and EGCG consumption, it is also important to evaluate undesirable health-related consequences that may arise from EGCG- induced reductions in the levels of sex steroid hormones and other endocrine factors.”
 
Whoa! I heard that drinking green tea in excessive amounts could be counter productive to muscle growth, but I never knew it was this bad!
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I better stop having my cup of green tea before I do cardio in the morning and replace it with something else...

Oh yeah, and as far as hot beverages are concerned, hot chocolate is indeed a fine choice. Just use skim milk, dark cocoa powder and an artificial sweetener, and you have yourself a guilt free treat!
 
How bad, really, is green tea? Is it going to make or break my progress in building muscle? If it will just slow my progress a bit, I don't see much point in tossing it out. I like it, so I would prefer to keep drinking it.
How much is a lot? Say I drink four or five cups, that are probably about 16 oz servings each, is that going to make me remain perpetually scrawny? I'd say not, considering my results so far...
 
Is taking a green tea supplement with between 250-500mg of ECCG a day a bad idea whilst bulking? what about cutting? what level of impairment are we talking about here?
 
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