Fat intake while bulking

O

OneMoreRep

New Member
Ideally what would you all say is the most % calories one should obtain from fat ?

like ratio wise... PRO:CARB:FAT??
 
I assume that most people will tell you that ratios are irrelevant and it is the actual amounts determined by weight that matters.

I would like to get an expert opinion on this as well. Most recommend 20-25% fat during bulking to maintain satiety, optimize hormones, etc.

The double edged sword is that if you are eating a carb based diet and fairly hypercaloric, dietary fat is easily stored.

Therefore, for instance, a 200lb bodybuilder who is bulking with heavy carbs would do best to minimize the amount of fat eaten as much as possible outside of EFAs and tag along fats in protein sources.

For instance, the 200lb bodybuilder bulking with 3500 calories would eat:

PRO: 200g
CHO: 550g
FAT: ~50g (trying to keep it as low as possible after EFAs)


But I digress to Mr. Haycock, Aaron, dkm, or someone who actually knows what they are talking about.
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From Bryan's eating for Size article, a very good reference tool :) Since he breaks it down to different Fats and their intake.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]FAT (Fat provides 9 calories per gram)
Next decide where your essential fats will come from and how much you'll need. Keep in mind that not all fats contribute to body fatness to the same extent. In other words, good fats can actually prevent fat gain, whereas saturated and hydrogenated fats encourage fat storage even on fewer calories.

Essential fats lacking in most diets are omega-3 fatty acids. These can be found in fish, or various plant sources such as walnuts or flax oil. If you are looking just to get pure omega-3s (EPA & DHA), plan to get 3-4 grams per day. If you don't eat much fish, this will require a fish oil supplement. If you use flax oil, take about 1 tablespoon per 100 pounds bodyweight. If you chose to use flax oil, keep in mind that chronic caffeine consumption will interfere with the body's ability to convert linolenic acid into EPA and DHA. Using fish oil already contains EPA and DHA so you needed worry about interference with caffeine.

The meat that we will need to eat will provide anywhere from 7-14 grams fat per meal. Lets take an average of 11 grams per meal. Lets say we eat meat 5 times per day. That gives us 55 grams of fat per day from meat. Like I say, this is just a really good guess based on averages. It may be slightly higher or slightly lower day by day, but on average, you should come in at about 55 grams a fat per day just from eating lean meats.

Lets add a little bit of Flax oil as well as Fish oil to our diet. At 220 pounds our guy need 2 tablespoons of Flax and 4 grams of fish oil supps. That's an additional 32 grams of fat. That gives us a grand total of 87 grams of fat per day. At 9 calories per gram that gives us 783 calories per day from fat. Subtract that from the 2620 calories we had left after adding protein and we have 1837 calories left to fill with carbs.
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Yes, but Bryan also says that the protein we will be eating will provide 7-14g of fat per meal. The lean chicken breast, cottage cheese, and whey powder that I eat don't have nearly that much fat. I was wondering whether or not to fill those extra calories with some good fats such as walnuts or just add in more carbs. In my example above, I was adding in more carbs.
 
If you are hypercaloric and eating a lot of carbs (thus meeting energy needs), I would think that you would begin to store a lot of fat that way.

On the other hand if you are low carbing it, and most of you energy is being supplied by fats, then not at all.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Tyler_K (Posted on Dec. 07 2004 @ 5:50))]
Yes, but Bryan also says that the protein we will be eating will provide 7-14g of fat per meal. The lean chicken breast, cottage cheese, and whey powder that I eat don't have nearly that much fat. I was wondering whether or not to fill those extra calories with some good fats such as walnuts or just add in more carbs. In my example above, I was adding in more carbs.
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Remember Bryan also said this is an approximation, you can either keep the fat down or add in a Tablespoon of Olive Oil or better Flax Oil. If you are not in the mood or need for the fat then up carbs or protein. If your meal that you are referencing is earlier in the day add the fats in before bed, as they have a slower gastric emptying rate and therefore can help keep a positve calorie balance for the long nights sleep. Nothing like a peanut butter and sugar free jelly sandwich with some nice cold skim milk before bed :D
[b said:
Quote[/b] (OneMoreRep (Posted on Dec. 07 2004 @ 6:16))]Anyone think 30 % cals from fats would be overdoing it?
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No, not at all, especially if the predominance is EFA.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Tyler_K @ Dec. 07 2004,6:54)]If you are hypercaloric and eating a lot of carbs (thus meeting energy needs), I would think that you would begin to store a lot of fat that way.
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That depends on how hypercaloric he is. It also depends on which fats it is he is ingesting.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Tyler_K @ Dec. 07 2004,5:50)]Yes, but Bryan also says that the protein we will be eating will provide 7-14g of fat per meal. The lean chicken breast, cottage cheese, and whey powder that I eat don't have nearly that much fat.
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Then you must have extremely lean chicken, the farmers got em on UD2? :D, roughly there is 1 gm of Fat per Oz of Skinless Chicken Breast, and 7 Gms in 1 cup Cottage Cheese, unless you use skim or reduced fat.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (dkm1987 @ Dec. 07 2004,8:17)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Tyler_K @ Dec. 07 2004,6:54)]If you are hypercaloric and eating a lot of carbs (thus meeting energy needs), I would think that you would begin to store a lot of fat that way.
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That depends on how hypercaloric he is. It also depends on which fats it is he is ingesting.
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um when bulking is it not assumed that we are hypercaloric?

and by 30% from fat is it not assumed the carbs will be proportionately lower?

example

30 % cals from protein
40 % cals from carbs
30 % cals from fat
 
You guys nitpick too much. Keep things simple. It's good to be knowledgable, sure, but don't stress about it. More fats would result in less carbs. Inverse relationship. My fats have gone as high as 35%. I get them from: Red meat, eggs, safflower oil, fish oil. Mostly from red meat and eggs. I don't believe this 3-4 grams of EPA/DHA crap or whatever Bryan recommends. I don't see any need for that. I've done it before for a few months at a time and never felt any difference in my mood, my body's ability to prevent sickness, or my sex drive or anything.

I don't buy into all this new-age stuff.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (dkm1987 @ Dec. 07 2004,8:23)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Tyler_K @ Dec. 07 2004,5:50)]Yes, but Bryan also says that the protein we will be eating will provide 7-14g of fat per meal. The lean chicken breast, cottage cheese, and whey powder that I eat don't have nearly that much fat.
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Then you must have extremely lean chicken, the farmers got em on UD2? :D, roughly there is 1 gm of Fat per Oz of Skinless Chicken Breast, and 7 Gms in 1 cup Cottage Cheese, unless you use skim or reduced fat.
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My chicken breasts usually have anywhere from 5-8g of fat by my calculations. I eat one, maybe two a day. The chickens are on PSMF by the way.
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The cottage cheese has 3g of fat per cup, it's 1% reduced fat.


If my fat goes up one day, carbs will go down that day. In the context of keeping overall calories constant, I don't think it will make a huge difference in the long run as long as fat doesn't get extremely high.

At 30% of 3500 calories, I can go up to 116g of fat. Good thing too because the ice cream I just ate was full fat.
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Not to mention, eating chicken sandwiches without peanut butter on them is just a waste of my time.
 
Chicken sandwiches with peanut butter? That's fuckin' disgusting.

You're nitpicking over excess fat in your diet leading to fat gain, yet you eat ice cream. Something is wrong here.
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[b said:
Quote[/b] (Tom Treutlein @ Dec. 07 2004,10:52)]Chicken sandwiches with peanut butter? That's fuckin' disgusting.
You're nitpicking over excess fat in your diet leading to fat gain, yet you eat ice cream. Something is wrong here.
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HAHAHahahahahaha
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[b said:
Quote[/b] (Tom Treutlein @ Dec. 07 2004,8:16)]You guys nitpick too much. Keep things simple. It's good to be knowledgable, sure, but don't stress about it.
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I don't think anyone is stressing, just curious. But overall you are right in the grand scheme of things it matters not, these little changes are too miniscule for the most part and to quote Aaron, "your body hates you" anyway.


:)
 
You say this, Aaron, yet Bryan says in his eating for size article, under the 'fats' section, that hydrogenated and saturated fats will cause greater fat gain even with less calories.

I don't think that issue has been cleared up yet.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Tom Treutlein @ Dec. 08 2004,2:37)]You say this, Aaron, yet Bryan says in his eating for size article, under the 'fats' section, that hydrogenated and saturated fats will cause greater fat gain even with less calories.
I don't think that issue has been cleared up yet.
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There was one study that seemed to show a mixture of 72% MCFA and 22% n-3 LCPUFA without LCFA stimulate the fatty acid oxidation and release from adipocytes.
10 healthy volunteers (Body Mass Index 25–30) of a formula containing 72% MCFA and 22% n-3 LCPUFA without LCFA (intake: 1.500 kcal/day; fat: 55.5% of energy) were measured in comparison to an isoenergetic formula with equal fat amount and LCFA dominated lipid profile.

Also I think that with those BMIs 1500 Kcal/Day is a little low, but maybe not depending on their energy needs. But Aaron could attest to the validity of this a lot better than me.
 
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