fish oil for bulking?

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imported_flow

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This article refers to a study claiming that fish oil increases protein anabolism in steers.

Fish oil is mostly seen as a fat loss aid - wouldn't it be just as useful during hypercaloric nutrition, in order to make sure that more of the extra calories end up as muscle tissue?
 
I read about another steer study that said that the animals were able to gain lbm on 90% of their maintenance cals when given fish oil.

What exactly this means, I have no clue, but if I were raising cattle, I'd probably like it.
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I just wanted to add that I'm not from Texas (full metal jacket reference, anyone?)...
 
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(flow @ Jul. 20 2007,12:19)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">This article refers to a study claiming that fish oil increases protein anabolism in steers.

Fish oil is mostly seen as a fat loss aid - wouldn't it be just as useful during hypercaloric nutrition, in order to make sure that more of the extra calories end up as muscle tissue?</div>
Get some Test, that is the best partitioning agent little money can buy.
 
javacody, the study you are referring to is the same I brought up. Here is a more detailed summary:

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">&quot;...animals that are given omega-3’s spontaneously eat 10% less food to achieve the same weight gain,&quot; points out Thivierge.</div>
 
I picked up a book at the liberal (aren't they all?) book store regarding fish oil. I believe it was called the Omega Zone. There was plenty of good information in there, but you do not need to buy a book to realize all the benefits the stuff can have.

Bulking, slow bulking, cutting, crash dieting, whatever your diet may be.... Fish oil is great to take just as Totentanz said.
 
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(Aaron_F @ Jul. 21 2007,10:51)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Anssi loves the animal trials...</div>
Keto-diets are the hawt...and you don't write for MD, so you don't get a say in this
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Thanks for all the replies!

Which dosage would you recommend? In this somewhat lengthy article, Chris Thibaudeau suggests taking up to 40g daily, on top of Biotest omega 3 supps 
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. Do you think megadosing (more than 10g daily) could be of any use?
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Do you think megadosing (more than 10g daily) could be of any use?</div>

If you were rich! Some days, I may take up to 6g/day, but probably average a supplement of 2g/day as of recent.
 
From what I have read, the importance of Omega-3 is with respect to how much Omega-6 you have in your diet.

The lower the Omega-6:3 ratio, the better. 4:1 to 1:1 ratios are considered excellent. Anything under 6:1 is good and should exploit many health benefits.

The typical western diet has a ratio of about 15:1.
 
Lyle recommends 6 grams per day, I personally take 10 grams per day of the double strength stuff (twice the levels of Omega3s as normal).

I read that Mercola recommends 1 gram per 10 pounds of bodyweight. Seems like quite a bit.
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I'm not advocating this, just mentioning it.
 
I go with 6 per day...3 morning 3 evening. You'll notice that your blood is thinner and will bleed easier with high doses 6g+. In fact, my wife's prenatal includes one gram and there is a doctor's note suggesting that the average person should only take 3gm per day due to blood thinning. Its great for the heart and some say it is quite anabolic.
 
colby, my local pharmacy carries 1 liter bottles of pharmaceutical grade fish oil with roughly 30% omega-3s at an affordable price (about 10 bucks a liter). I realize eating pure fish oil by the tablespoon is not everybody's cup of tea, but I'm fine with it. The stuff goes rancid when it sits too long in my kitchen cabinet, so a higher dosage may in fact be more economical in my case.

spartan, I have also heard about the blood thinning effects which may be harmful. As I have just started taking more than 1 tbsp/day, I will wait some weeks and then have some blood tests.
 
You can keep fish oil in the fridge to keep it from going rancid (probably a good idea for most oils that you use infrequently).

In regards to the risk of blood thinning, etc. Consider how much fish certain groups eat (thinking inuit, islanders, etc), I don't personally buy the blood thinning risk as being something to be real concerned with.

I think also that the 3 gram thing is 3 grams of omega3s, not 3 grams of fish oil. In your typical inexpensive (this is a relative term to the most expensive brands) fish oil supplements, you may only have 400 mg of omega3s. You could take seven grams of fish oil and be under the 3 grams of omega3s recommendation.

Also, when you consider the amount of omega3s found naturally in fish that many people eat every day, you will realize how little 3 grams of omega3s really are. Check this out (link to article after quote):

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Amounts of seafood necessary to provide 1 gram of DHA + EPA (based on USDA Nutrient Data Laboratory information): cod (Pacific): 23 ounces; haddock: 15 ounces; catfish: 15-20 ounces; flounder/sole: 7 ounces; shrimp: 11 ounces; lobster: 7.5-42.5 ounces; sardines: 2-3 ounces; crab: 8.5 ounces; cod (Atlantic): 12.5 ounces; clams: 12.5 ounces; scallops: 17.5 ounces; trout: 3-3.5 ounces; salmon: 1.4-4.5 ounces; herring: 1.5-2 ounces; oysters: 2.5-8 ounces; tuna (fresh): 2.5-12 ounces; tuna (canned, light): 12 ounces; tuna (canned, white): 4 ounces; halibut: 3-7.5 ounces; mackerel: 2-8.5 ounces. Cod liver oil: 5 grams; standard fish body oil: 3 grams; omega-3 fatty acid concentrate: 2 grams.</div>

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/fish-oil/NS_patient-fishoil

You can see that if you ate salmon, trout, sardines, or herring on a regular basis, you could easily surpass this &quot;recommendation&quot;. Does anyone think it odd that a doctor will put your life at direct risk by prescribing drugs such as vioxx, but with something as simple and healthful as fish oil suggest you limit your intake to a fairly small amount?

Sorry, I just get tired of of the line toeing that so many doctors do, granted, they have to worry about lawsuits and such (which is more bs in my opinion, but anyway).

Check this out:

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Bleeding : Intake of 3 grams per day or greater of omega-3 fatty acids may increase the risk of bleeding, although there is little evidence of significant bleeding risk at lower doses (245; 246; 247). Very large intakes of fish oil/omega-3 fatty acids (&quot;Eskimo&quot; amounts) may increase the risk of hemorrhagic (bleeding) stroke (92). High doses have also been associated with nosebleed and blood in the urine (147). Fish oils appear to decrease platelet aggregation and prolong bleeding time, increase fibrinolysis (breaking down of blood clots), and may reduce von Willebrand factor.</div>

The article mentions &quot;Eskimo Amounts&quot; several times but does not quantify how much this is. I'm assuming that it is significantly more than 3 grams per day of EPA+DHA.

I also think that the wikipedia entry on Omega3s is pretty good:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega-3_fatty_acid
 
javacody, thanks for all the information!

The wikipedia article is really good, and that they include several studies from 2007 shows that the info is up to date. The issue of omega 6 - omega 3 ratio mentioned by colby is also addressed.

I see that I needn't worry about side-effects. However, after years of a strict low-fat diet, I switched to low carb and high fat nutrition some months ago, and I'm just curious what the blood work will say.

I have experimented with putting the fish oil in the fridge just like you suggest, but what happened is that the saturated fatty acids solidified and formed a gooey mass in the lower half of the bottle - yuck! That was too much even for my taste. I should probably put the big bottle in the fridge, and keep a smaller bottle in the cabinet. Then I only need to take out the big bottle every other week or so, some hours before refilling the smaller one.
 
6g of normal fish oil is the range i typically go with becuase its approximately the range for maximal tissue levels.

Basing recommendations about what eskimo's 'eat' is not allways the best method, but either way, extreme doses are more of a nutraceutical appproach for a variety of disease states, especially extreme inflammatory diseases
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Basing recommendations about what eskimo's 'eat' is not allways the best method, but either way, extreme doses are more of a nutraceutical appproach for a variety of disease states, especially extreme inflammatory diseases </div>

Excellent point. Check this article out:

The Government's Big Fish Story

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">&quot;As far as we know, he survived the longest exposure to carbon monoxide poisoning,&quot; says Julian Bailes, M.D., the neurosurgeon assigned to the case. McCloy was in a coma and in deep shock, his heart barely beating, one of his lungs collapsed, his liver and both kidneys shut down. Even if he somehow managed to pull through, doctors predicted McCloy would be severely brain damaged, since the carbon monoxide had stripped the protective myelin sheath from most of his brain's neurons. &quot;It's very difficult to come back from a brain injury,&quot; says Dr. Bailes. &quot;There's no drug that can help that.&quot;



While McCloy was being given oxygen infusions in a hyperbaric chamber, Dr. Bailes was struck by inspiration: He ordered a daily dose of 15,000 milligrams (mg) docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) and eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) for the miner. In layman's terms?



&quot;Fish oil,&quot; says Dr. Bailes.



Several weeks passed. Then, unexpectedly, McCloy emerged from his coma. This in itself was amazing, but he wasn't done. In the weeks that followed, he stunned even the most optimistic experts by recovering his memory and gradually regaining his ability to walk, talk, and see, a turnaround that many in the medical field called miraculous.



Although Dr. Bailes believes the hyperbaric chamber may have worked some magic on the myelin, he thinks much of the credit belongs elsewhere. &quot;The omega-3s helped rebuild the damaged gray and white matter of his brain,&quot; says Dr. Bailes, who now takes his own medicine, swallowing a fish-oil supplement each morning. On his orders, McCloy, still recuperating at home, continues to take fish oil daily. &quot;I would say he should be on it for a lifetime,&quot; says Dr. Bailes. &quot;But then, I think everybody should.&quot;</div>
 
Amazing. I was about to rant and elaborate on my doctor's medicine until Colby mentioned it. I was on blood thinners for a while that had some really lousy side effects, including FATIGUE...assrag pillpushers...
I understand that in order to NOT burn the oils for energy, they should be taken with food. After using apple cider vinegar for brief stints, this stuff is easy in comparison. Just thought I'd mention it, since it's desired to be kept in the body...for many reasons. I wonder how much a big 'gulp' is? I just slug it off the bottle and &quot;git 'er done&quot;.
Guess I'll have to spit some out and measure it.
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On average during this past cycle, I get 2.5 grams of Omega-3/day. The amount of supplements is probably about half of that. I love eating fish, and I pick up cereals (Kashi) and pasta (Barilla Plus) that are enhanced with Omega 3.
 
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