Frequency 2x Per Week Vs 3x And Question About Muscle Hyperplasia

Discussion in 'Hypertrophy-Specific Training (HST)' started by UCS1932, Aug 18, 2018.

  1. NWlifter

    NWlifter Active Member

    oh wow, yes. I'm sure it really depends on age and 'whats done', I've seen some info. even for younger people that some killer workouts took even longer than that to get strength recovery completed.
    My thing is, yes you can train before that, but if your incapacitated on performance too much, can you beat RBE in that state enough to induce anything?
  2. Old and Grey

    Old and Grey Super Moderator Staff Member

    You can train but you likely will see minimal results and if you keep that up, you will be more susceptible to colds, viruses, etc. as well as soft tissue injuries, especially if you are lifting heavier weights.
  3. NWlifter

    NWlifter Active Member

    So... in your opinion, strength recovery 'should' be allowed to happen before training again?
  4. Old and Grey

    Old and Grey Super Moderator Staff Member

    Strength recovery is probably recovered sufficiently in 48 hours to train a muscle again. I assumed, apparently incorrectly, that when you said "incapacitated on performance too much" you were referring to down and out CNS overload and my answer was based on that and not on strength recovery. Sorry for the confusion.
  5. NWlifter

    NWlifter Active Member

    I'm thinking... if the program is arranged so strength is recovered in 48, that = good
    If though, strength recovery really was pretty incomplete at 48, then I'm thinking training again probably wouldn't do 'much', since neural strength, thus 'activation' would be limited to where you really couldn't surpass RBE enough 'to' do any good.

    does that make sense?
  6. Old and Grey

    Old and Grey Super Moderator Staff Member

    Yes, and, of course, everything is dependent on volume and intensity. Once you hit the point of diminishing returns in a workout, doing more will cause more neural harm than hypertrophy good and require a wasteful longer recovery period. For me that maximum effective point is about 3 sets of myo reps per body part per workout per workout.
    NWlifter likes this.
  7. Old and Grey

    Old and Grey Super Moderator Staff Member

    And now, to confuse you even more:

  8. NWlifter

    NWlifter Active Member

    That IS confusing lol!
  9. Old and Grey

    Old and Grey Super Moderator Staff Member

    Actually it underscores the premise of HST with a capital H. I just wish they had gone to 3 workouts per week. It is still unclear as to whether 2 or 3 is better given a static set of circumstances.
  10. NWlifter

    NWlifter Active Member

    I guess it depends on 'what' the static is?
    6 sets 3x might not be 6 sets 2x, but 4 sets 3x might beat 6 sets 2x... maybe...
  11. adpowah

    adpowah Active Member

    I definitely don't know if your experience is like mine but I experienced this the first and second times I did DUP. I found too much max effort to failure got me real sick (cold like flu) real quick. The second time it happened I decided to just be a man about and train through. I reasoned I couldn't possibly be getting sick again so soon. Needless to say that was a terrible idea in retrospect. It resulted in terrible doms while having a fever and a terrible cough.

    Anyways, I found a number of factors that help me increase my work a lot without getting sick. I was able to employ these fairly successfully when I did my Deadlift "every" day and a second time when I did my Bench "every" day programs (it really ended up typically being more like 4, sometimes 5 times a week). In both cases my total volume was pretty high relative to my typical volume. These were the things I added to stay healthy during that time:
    • Sleep: I tried to be super serious about sleep, sometimes getting 9 hours or more (not counting the time you're just laying in bed). My thought was it is the best recovery (including when we are sick), why not use it before I get sick.
    • Eating: Calories are so clutch under excess stress. I am sure there are more factors than simply the nutritional value of the calorie, including the joy of eating, but I do find it super valuable in keeping a grueling program going and staying healthy.
    • Using technical failure rather than actual failure: I feel like when a rep doesn't look like the previous set due to fatigue I have to stop or drop the weight. I may be a little flexible on what technical failure looks like and of course sometimes a rep just doesn't move right. However I found this way more sustainable.
    • Removing excessive stimulus: I found getting amped or using caffeine for lifting burned my fuse way too fast. Instead a purposely tried to take emotional intensity as low as possible and just think through the lift mechanically rather than emotionally. For a lot of the training I found some super chill music and tried to down regulate any anxiety and my heart rate before each set.
    • Tissue work: Rollers, balls, active release, contrast showers, deliberate stretching+breathing, etc. after each workout and especially when you start to feel the fatigue building up. I don't know if the work does anything itself, but I am guessing it helps move my body to a truly relaxed state that allows me to actually recover.
    • Partial reps: For deadlift I would do just below the knee to just above at 185 lbs for pump work. Bench worked out differently, I used 80% to do 3-4 pause reps from chest to half lock out, then another 3-4 reps full reps for a handful of sets. My theory here is there are aspects of a movement that your body does less well with, and just doing more volume allows your strong aspects to drag your weak aspects thus creating an unhealthy level of stress. Instead I try and dedicate time to the weak aspects.
    Granted this is all speculation that it was in fact these items that helped me avoid sickness, I think you could maybe even argue that it was never volume in the first case that got me sick, instead it was just coincidence, but this is what my anecdotal evidence leads me to believe.
    Old and Grey, NWlifter and _Simon_ like this.
  12. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Active Member

    Mate.. that was incredibly helpful. Thanks so much!! I can definitely vibe with alot of that, and all of it makes sense.

    -Sleep is absolutely something I could improve on haha.. I actually always am trying to get up earlier in the day as I don't feel great if I sleep too much, but perhaps the sleep quality isn't always so great..

    -Eating is usually pretty good, but could use some more attention, and making sure to actually eat plenty of food that will support my training.

    -Love your tip on technical failure rather than actual failure. It's something I'm becoming more aware of, the actually quality of the reps. If the quality is clearly dipping, it may be better to end the set there, get some more volume in after resting a bit.

    -Removing excess stimulus, great idea! I'm big into coffee, but never as a preworkout so all good there. But I've also tried to 'amp down' my workouts, and really focus on the technical aspects, approaching it in a more meditative and mindful way. The intensity is good to call upon when needed, but to be amped up for so long isn't good for my system I know haha.

    -Tissue work, definitely something I can work on more. I do alot of pelvic/hip stretch and release work, but don't do anywhere near enough for upper body stuff. Need to get on that!

    -Partial reps, what a great idea! I never considered that, but makes sense to work on those weaker ranges.

    Thanks for posting that, super helpful :)
    adpowah likes this.

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