Hard gainer

[blupblup]

Quote[/b] (Aaron_F @ Dec. 28 2004,2:35)]

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Quote[/b] (blupblup @ Dec. 29 2004,8

8)]Please forgive my sarcastic nature, but; "says who?".
I assume youve done some research on this yourself or if not please post from what study you got this "info" from. Thanks.

why not just do a pubmed search for peter lemon, or mark tarnoplosky

Because A) I was asking him, B) its not common sense to think of "tarnoplosky" as being the right keyword to search for =p, and C) it doesnt make sense; that 270 gram wouldnt be used. Hes indirectly saying that even if you eat 8000 kcal per day, all from protein (thatd be 2000 gram) you wont gain weight even if you only need, lets say, 3500 kcal for maintenance.

270 gram of protein equals only 1080 kcal, and he claims that not even that much is "useful". Sounds like the ultimate diet if you can eat all the protein you want and the maximal of energy itll give you is (below) 1080 kcal. Prove it BoSox and you can make a lot of money!

 

[BoSox]

Quote[/b] ]do a pubmed search for peter lemon, or mark tarnoplosky

 

[blupblup]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=search&DB=pubmed

peter lemon <- No items found
mark tarnoplosky <- No items found

And your point is?

 

[Pauly]

LEMON,PETER W.R., MARK A. TARNOPOLSKY, J. DUNCAN MACDOUGALL AND STEPHANIE A. ATKINSON.

“Protein requirements and muscle mass/strength changes during intensive training in novice bodybuilders.” J. Appl. Physiol. 73(2): 767-775, 1992.

This randomized double-blind cross-over study assessed protein (PRO) requirements during the early stages of intensive bodybuilding training and determined whether supplemental PRO intake (PROin) enhanced muscle mass/strength gains. Twelve men [22.4 t 2.4 (SD) yr] received an isoenergetic PRO (total PRO, 2.62 g/kg/day) or carbohydrate (CHO; total PROin 1.35 g/kg/day) supplement for 1 mo each during intensive (1.5 h/day, 6 days/wk) weight training. On the basis of 3-day nitrogen balance (NBAL) measurements after 3.5 wk on each treatment (8.9 -+ 4.2 and -3.4 t 1.9 g N/day, respectively), the PROin necessary for zero NBAL (requirement) was 1.4-1.5 g/kg/day. The recommended intake (requirement + 2 SD) was 1.6-1.7 g/kg/day. However, strength (voluntary and electrically evoked) and muscle mass [density, creatinine excretion, muscle area (CAT scan), and biceps N content] gains were not different between diet treatments. These data indicate that, during the early stages of intensive bodybuilding training, PRO needs are ~100% greater than current recommendations but that PROin increases from 1.35 to 2.62 g/kg/day do not enhance muscle mass/strength gains, at least during the 1st mo of training. Whether differential gains would occur with longer training remains to be determined.

 

[Pauly]

TARNOPOLSKY, M.A., S. A. ATKINSON, J.D. MACDOUGALL, A. CHESLEY, S.PHILLIPS AND H.P. SCHWARCZ.

“Evaluation of protein requirements for trained strength athletes.” J. Appl. Physiol. 73(5): 1986-1995,1992.-

Leucine kinetic and nitrogen balance (NBAL) methods were used to determine the dietary protein requirements of strength athletes (SA) compared with sedentary subjects (S). Individual subjects were randomly assigned to one of three protein intakes: low protein (LP) = 0.86 g protein/kg/day, moderate protein (MP) = 1.40 g protein/kg/day, or high protein (HP) = 2.40 g protein/kg/day for 13 days for each dietary treatment. NBAL was measured and whole body protein synthesis (WBPS) and leucine oxidation were determined from L-leucine turnover. NBAL data were used to determine that the protein intake for zero NBAL for S was 0.69 g/kg/day and for SA was 1.41 g/kg/day. A suggested recommended intake for S was 0.89 g/kg/day and for SA was 1.76 g/kg/day. For SA, the LP diet did not provide adequate protein and resulted in an accommodated state (decreased WBPS vs. MP and HP), and the MP diet resulted in a state of adaptation [increase in WBPS (vs. LP) and no change in leucine oxidation (vs. LP)]. The HP diet did not result in increased WBPS compared with the MP diet, but leucine oxidation did increase significantly, indicating a nutrient overload. For S the LP diet provided adequate protein, and increasing protein intake did not increase WBPS. On the HP diet leucine oxidation increased for S These results indicated that the MP and HP diets were nutrient overloads for S. There were no effects of varying protein intake on indexes of lean body mass (creatinine excretion, body density) for either group. In summary, protein requirements for athletes performing strength training are greater than for sedentary individuals and are above current Canadian and US recommended daily protein intake requirements for young healthy males.

 

[BoSox]

my first point is that you need to search for Lemon P, because when have you ever seen a study credited to someone's first name?

 

[Aaron_F]

Quote[/b] (NWlifter @ Dec. 29 2004,1:30)]I keep feeling more and more drained. Anyone else like that? (probably not since your all doing 3 days a week stuff LOL, just thougth I'd ask )
Ron

Increase volume and frequency slowly. Potentially for one bodypart at a time.
Adding another session per week cna cause some issues for some people and has to be taken slowly.

Quote[/b] ]it doesnt make sense; that 270 gram wouldnt be used. Hes indirectly saying that even if you eat 8000 kcal per day, all from protein (thatd be 2000 gram) you wont gain weight even if you only need, lets say, 3500 kcal for maintenance.

hes not claiming that at all, but you seem to have gone off on a weird tangent

 

[blupblup]

Quote[/b] (BoSox @ Dec. 29 2004,1:26)]my first point is that you need to search for Lemon P, because when have you ever seen a study credited to someone's first name?

lol, read the very post before your own by Pauly (the first of his two), its credited with first names...
and besides, you said yourself "do a pubmed search for peter lemon, or mark tarnoplosky"...
I see youre having a hard time to keep it all together so Ill just drop it. Take care.

 

[BoSox]

or maybe you're dropping it because you were completely wrong the entire time. Take care.

 

[Pauly]

Quote[/b] (blupblup @ Dec. 30 2004,3:34)]

Quote[/b] (BoSox @ Dec. 29 2004,1:26)]my first point is that you need to search for Lemon P, because when have you ever seen a study credited to someone's first name?

lol, read the very post before your own by Pauly (the first of his two), its credited with first names...
and besides, you said yourself "do a pubmed search for peter lemon, or mark tarnoplosky"...
I see youre having a hard time to keep it all together so Ill just drop it. Take care.

Keep me out of this. I dont get my papers from pubmed anyway

 

[blupblup]

Quote[/b] (BoSox @ Dec. 30 2004,10:43)]or maybe you're dropping it because you were completely wrong the entire time. Take care.

Or maybe your father didnt love you when you were a child?! Or maybe he did, too much... But it wouldnt be right of me to insinuate that you were abused, so I wont.

 

[Aaron_F]

Quote[/b] (BoSox @ Dec. 31 2004,4:43)]or maybe you're dropping it because you were completely wrong the entire time. Take care.

it was a nice non sequitur anyway, but some of the databases do search for a first name... pubmed does sometimes

Quote[/b] ]I dont get my papers from pubmed anyway

I use a mass of databases, some of the pay ones are expeeeeensive.

 

[blupblup]

Quote[/b] (Aaron_F @ Dec. 30 2004,2:06)]I use a mass of databases, some of the pay ones are expeeeeensive.

Indeed they are, can you recommend some of the ones you do use though? Would be nice to look over some day.

 

[Pauly]

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Quote[/b] (Aaron_F @ Dec. 30 2004,7

6)]some of the pay ones are expeeeeensive.

Haha, not if your unis med school is a #### hot one and subscribes to just about everything (and you get access from home too). I get the full text pdf if I like it

 

[Bryan Haycock]

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Quote[/b] (blupblup @ Dec. 30 2004,12

2)]

Quote[/b] (BoSox @ Dec. 30 2004,10:43)]or maybe you're dropping it because you were completely wrong the entire time. Take care.

Or maybe your father didnt love you when you were a child?! Or maybe he did, too much... But it wouldnt be right of me to insinuate that you were abused, so I wont.

Please familiarize yourself with the Forum Etiquette

I understand you are a new visitor and probably haven't taken the time to read it, but it will help if you do. We really can't allow discussions to turn into personal insults.

If you have a question, please post it in very simple terms avoiding flaming people etc.

Thanks.

-bryan

 

[Aaron_F]

Quote[/b] (Pauly @ Dec. 31 2004,9:36)]

Quote[/b] (Aaron_F @ Dec. 30 2004,7

)]some of the pay ones are expeeeeensive.

Haha, not if your unis med school is a #### hot one and subscribes to just about everything (and you get access from home too). I get the full text pdf if I like it <!--emo&amp;

I was meaning the pay search engines that offer a wider range than pubmed or scholar.google offer, but work pays when I use them.

I can get most online articles that I want thru my university

 

[Aaron_F]

Quote[/b] (blupblup @ Dec. 31 2004,9:09)]

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Quote[/b] (Aaron_F @ Dec. 30 2004,2

6)]I use a mass of databases, some of the pay ones are expeeeeensive.

Indeed they are, can you recommend some of the ones you do use though? Would be nice to look over some day.

the free ones are the simplest

www.pubmed.com

scholar.google.com

the pay ones generally you have to join first, which is not a cheap process, then $2-8US per ABSTRACT

 

[monq]

Bryan has elaborated on protein quantity in his nutrition articles. 1gm should suffice for most I believe. Even Lyle corroborates this.