HST, Arthur Jones, 20 Rep Squats Oh My!
- Thread starter redrooster
- Start date
<div>
(colby2152 @ Jan. 14 2008,14:33)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I was thinking much more simpler than you Dan (but then again who doesn't?)...
Bad form -> shifted mechanics -> less load on muscle -> less muscle
Bad form -> injury -> not lifting -> less muscle</div>
I understand what you were getting at and I'm not disagreeing that the Smith machine is one of those pieces of equipment that may cause the issues you are referring too.
(colby2152 @ Jan. 14 2008,14:33)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I was thinking much more simpler than you Dan (but then again who doesn't?)...
Bad form -> shifted mechanics -> less load on muscle -> less muscle
Bad form -> injury -> not lifting -> less muscle</div>
I understand what you were getting at and I'm not disagreeing that the Smith machine is one of those pieces of equipment that may cause the issues you are referring too.
redrooster
New Member
<div>
(Totentanz @ Jan. 14 2008,09:31)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Just one small point of contention:
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Doing Legs and back first stimulate GH and testosterone which help growth of all the body parts</div>
Turns out this isn't the case.
Working legs and back stimulate GH and test, sure, but only locally. This does not occur systemically. If you do curls, you stimulate growth of the effected muscles, but you aren't going to get big calves from doing curls, and you aren't going to get big arms from doing squats.
I think we've all seen those guys with huge upper bodies and little legs. And on the contrary, I think there are plenty of us here who have big legs but small (relative to our leg size) upper bodies. My back and legs are big, but my arms and chest are tiny in comparison. Kind of seems counter-intuitive if ole AJ's statement about doing legs and back first was true, eh? Squatting and rowing have done nothing for my pec development, which would be surprising if I actually believed that bunk about squatting being necessary for test or hgh production.
Squatting does not cause a systemic rise in growth hormone nor testosterone. There are studies to prove this, but if you really need to see them, then go look them up. They've been posted here before and this had been discussed many times before. I'm not inclined to rehash it more than I've already done just now.</div>
Im going to respectuflly disagree here.
Heavy squating or deadlifting promotes both test and growth hormones systemically. As stated earlier Casey Viators arms grew simply from heavy squating.
Additionally physical therapy research has demonstrated that a person with an injured leg need not experience atrophy in the injured leg. If the person does leg excercises such a one legged leg press with their good leg, to a degree that growth hormones are released, the injured leg will grow in some proportion to the excercised one.
I know Ill be asked to show my homework here so Ill try to find the studies.
But this is the underlying principle of Jones' work and the 20 rep squat routine. The growth mechanism is started by heavy leg and back work. The largest muscle stimulate the growth process most easily and the rest of the body reaps the benefits as well. HST starts with legs first as well, its not an accident.
Both Jones and Vice Gironda , when commenting on an arms routine, said the best way to maximaize arm size is to specialize on the arms alone, but to squat first.
Bottom line is that stimulating the growth process via squats puts the entire body in a better position to grow.
RR
(Totentanz @ Jan. 14 2008,09:31)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Just one small point of contention:
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Doing Legs and back first stimulate GH and testosterone which help growth of all the body parts</div>
Turns out this isn't the case.
Working legs and back stimulate GH and test, sure, but only locally. This does not occur systemically. If you do curls, you stimulate growth of the effected muscles, but you aren't going to get big calves from doing curls, and you aren't going to get big arms from doing squats.
I think we've all seen those guys with huge upper bodies and little legs. And on the contrary, I think there are plenty of us here who have big legs but small (relative to our leg size) upper bodies. My back and legs are big, but my arms and chest are tiny in comparison. Kind of seems counter-intuitive if ole AJ's statement about doing legs and back first was true, eh? Squatting and rowing have done nothing for my pec development, which would be surprising if I actually believed that bunk about squatting being necessary for test or hgh production.
Squatting does not cause a systemic rise in growth hormone nor testosterone. There are studies to prove this, but if you really need to see them, then go look them up. They've been posted here before and this had been discussed many times before. I'm not inclined to rehash it more than I've already done just now.</div>
Im going to respectuflly disagree here.
Heavy squating or deadlifting promotes both test and growth hormones systemically. As stated earlier Casey Viators arms grew simply from heavy squating.
Additionally physical therapy research has demonstrated that a person with an injured leg need not experience atrophy in the injured leg. If the person does leg excercises such a one legged leg press with their good leg, to a degree that growth hormones are released, the injured leg will grow in some proportion to the excercised one.
I know Ill be asked to show my homework here so Ill try to find the studies.
But this is the underlying principle of Jones' work and the 20 rep squat routine. The growth mechanism is started by heavy leg and back work. The largest muscle stimulate the growth process most easily and the rest of the body reaps the benefits as well. HST starts with legs first as well, its not an accident.
Both Jones and Vice Gironda , when commenting on an arms routine, said the best way to maximaize arm size is to specialize on the arms alone, but to squat first.
Bottom line is that stimulating the growth process via squats puts the entire body in a better position to grow.
RR
redrooster
New Member
An additional thought here.
Ill make an imperfect analogy. Pro athletes are no longer using steroids in general, they are opting for GH. We see this manifesting itself in sports by Barry Bonds growing enormously and Pro body building becoming freaks, and ugly ones in my opinion.
But in addition to the muscles they are wanting to enhance, they are recieving the "benefit" of growth hormone in places they arent especially wanting to grow. Barry Bonds head has grown, bodybuilders abdomens have extended to the point where they have "guts". Gone are the days of symmetry.
Why. Because GH isnt discriminatory. It makes everything grow. Now the GH inject by athletes is NOT the same as what the human body is secreting, but the effect is the same. Systemic growth.
When squats are done sufficiently to release hormones and you do a set of arms curls for example, the following takes place. The squating releases growth hormones, when you do even a single set of curls your bicep will send a small electric signal which turns on the switch to repair the damage done to the arm. If you have squated adequately your blood will be full of hormones that facilitate growth. If you have NOT done squats and released this relatively* large amount of growth factors the healing process will be, by necessity less. *( relative to that released by an arms alone w/o for example)
Heavy squats and particualrly breathing squats as pointed out on this thread, kick in the entire endocrine system. This means more GH more test and an accelerated metabolism allowing you to consume more of what makes you grow.
This is a survival mechanism.
How is this NOT going to make your pecs, arms, or lats grow quicker?
RR
Ill make an imperfect analogy. Pro athletes are no longer using steroids in general, they are opting for GH. We see this manifesting itself in sports by Barry Bonds growing enormously and Pro body building becoming freaks, and ugly ones in my opinion.
But in addition to the muscles they are wanting to enhance, they are recieving the "benefit" of growth hormone in places they arent especially wanting to grow. Barry Bonds head has grown, bodybuilders abdomens have extended to the point where they have "guts". Gone are the days of symmetry.
Why. Because GH isnt discriminatory. It makes everything grow. Now the GH inject by athletes is NOT the same as what the human body is secreting, but the effect is the same. Systemic growth.
When squats are done sufficiently to release hormones and you do a set of arms curls for example, the following takes place. The squating releases growth hormones, when you do even a single set of curls your bicep will send a small electric signal which turns on the switch to repair the damage done to the arm. If you have squated adequately your blood will be full of hormones that facilitate growth. If you have NOT done squats and released this relatively* large amount of growth factors the healing process will be, by necessity less. *( relative to that released by an arms alone w/o for example)
Heavy squats and particualrly breathing squats as pointed out on this thread, kick in the entire endocrine system. This means more GH more test and an accelerated metabolism allowing you to consume more of what makes you grow.
This is a survival mechanism.
How is this NOT going to make your pecs, arms, or lats grow quicker?
RR
RR,
May I make a suggestion? I'm being earnest here. You really need to do some homework.
I am saying this because I foresee one of 3 things happening here.
1. You are about to be nailed to a cross.
Depending on how you react to #1 will effect #2 and #3
2. You are not going too like it and you won't come back or
3. You'll begin to open your eyes and understand
So since I don't want #2 to happen I make this humble suggestion.
May I make a suggestion? I'm being earnest here. You really need to do some homework.
I am saying this because I foresee one of 3 things happening here.
1. You are about to be nailed to a cross.
Depending on how you react to #1 will effect #2 and #3
2. You are not going too like it and you won't come back or
3. You'll begin to open your eyes and understand
So since I don't want #2 to happen I make this humble suggestion.
redrooster
New Member
1.Respectfully, there are numerous studies that elabotate my point no matter how inarticulatly I may have made them. There are even university studies that suggest that new brain cells can be grown from the stimulus of excercise. You cant pump iron with your brain
it is a systemic function.
2. Why are you angry?
3. I have done my research and continue to do so. As Ive stated most of what Ive come to believe indepently I have found here as a systematic way of training.
RR
it is a systemic function.
2. Why are you angry?
3. I have done my research and continue to do so. As Ive stated most of what Ive come to believe indepently I have found here as a systematic way of training.
RR
scientific muscle
New Member
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Sarah B. Wilkinson1, Mark A. Tarnopolsky2, Emily J. Grant1, Caroline E. Correia1 and Stuart M. Phillips1
(1) Exercise Metabolism Research Group, Department of Kinesiology, McMaster University, 1280 Main St. West, Hamilton, ON, Canada, L8S 4K1
(2) Pediatrics and Neurology, McMaster University, Hamilton, ON, Canada
Accepted: 28 August 2006 Published online: 14 September 2006
Abstract We aimed to gain insight into the role that the transitory increases in anabolic hormones play in muscle hypertrophy with unilateral resistance training. Ten healthy young male subjects (21.8 ± 0.4 years, 1.78 ± 0.04 m, 75.6 ± 2.9 kg; mean ± SE) engaged in unilateral resistance training for 8 week (3 days/week). Exercises were knee extension and leg press performed at 80–90% of the subject’s single repetition maximum (1RM). Blood samples were collected in the acute period before and after the first training bout and following the last training bout and analyzed for total testosterone, free-testosterone, luteinizing hormone, sex hormone binding globulin, growth hormone, cortisol, and insulin-like growth factor-1. Thigh muscle cross sectional area (CSA) and muscle fibre CSA by biopsy (vastus lateralis) were measured pre- and post-training. Acutely, no changes in systemic hormone concentrations were observed in the 90 min period following exercise and there was no influence of training on these results. Training-induced increases were observed in type IIx and IIa muscle fibre CSA of 22 ± 3 and 13 ± 2% (both P < 0.001). No changes were observed in fibre CSA in the untrained leg (all P > 0.5). Whole muscle CSA increased by 5.4 ± 0.9% in the trained leg (P < 0.001) and remained unchanged in the untrained leg (P = 0.76). Isotonic 1RM increased in the trained leg for leg press and for knee extension (P < 0.001). No changes were seen in the untrained leg. In conclusion, unilateral training induced local muscle hypertrophy only in the exercised limb, which occurred in the absence of changes in systemic hormones that ostensibly play a role in muscle hypertrophy.</div>
I respectfully agree with Totentanz. As does this abstract.
(1) Exercise Metabolism Research Group, Department of Kinesiology, McMaster University, 1280 Main St. West, Hamilton, ON, Canada, L8S 4K1
(2) Pediatrics and Neurology, McMaster University, Hamilton, ON, Canada
Accepted: 28 August 2006 Published online: 14 September 2006
Abstract We aimed to gain insight into the role that the transitory increases in anabolic hormones play in muscle hypertrophy with unilateral resistance training. Ten healthy young male subjects (21.8 ± 0.4 years, 1.78 ± 0.04 m, 75.6 ± 2.9 kg; mean ± SE) engaged in unilateral resistance training for 8 week (3 days/week). Exercises were knee extension and leg press performed at 80–90% of the subject’s single repetition maximum (1RM). Blood samples were collected in the acute period before and after the first training bout and following the last training bout and analyzed for total testosterone, free-testosterone, luteinizing hormone, sex hormone binding globulin, growth hormone, cortisol, and insulin-like growth factor-1. Thigh muscle cross sectional area (CSA) and muscle fibre CSA by biopsy (vastus lateralis) were measured pre- and post-training. Acutely, no changes in systemic hormone concentrations were observed in the 90 min period following exercise and there was no influence of training on these results. Training-induced increases were observed in type IIx and IIa muscle fibre CSA of 22 ± 3 and 13 ± 2% (both P < 0.001). No changes were observed in fibre CSA in the untrained leg (all P > 0.5). Whole muscle CSA increased by 5.4 ± 0.9% in the trained leg (P < 0.001) and remained unchanged in the untrained leg (P = 0.76). Isotonic 1RM increased in the trained leg for leg press and for knee extension (P < 0.001). No changes were seen in the untrained leg. In conclusion, unilateral training induced local muscle hypertrophy only in the exercised limb, which occurred in the absence of changes in systemic hormones that ostensibly play a role in muscle hypertrophy.</div>
I respectfully agree with Totentanz. As does this abstract.
redrooster
New Member
Actually Dan Im interested in hearing what you have to say.
Your photos in the HST veterans thread are a great inspiration.
Do you have a training log post?
RR
Your photos in the HST veterans thread are a great inspiration.
Do you have a training log post?
RR
TunnelRat
Active Member
<div>
(redrooster @ Jan. 14 2008,18:02)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Actually Dan Im interested in hearing what you have to say.
Your photos in the HST veterans thread are a great inspiration.
Do you have a training log post?</div>
Dan has an entire website. One that gives practical application to the 20 squat routine.
Using Dan's Max-Stim technique, I have been able to do 20 squats at my 5RM, and to do so regularly.
Dan's Max-Stim site
(redrooster @ Jan. 14 2008,18:02)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Actually Dan Im interested in hearing what you have to say.
Your photos in the HST veterans thread are a great inspiration.
Do you have a training log post?</div>
Dan has an entire website. One that gives practical application to the 20 squat routine.
Using Dan's Max-Stim technique, I have been able to do 20 squats at my 5RM, and to do so regularly.
Dan's Max-Stim site
redrooster
New Member
<div>
(scientific muscle @ Jan. 14 2008,17:59)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Sarah B. Wilkinson1, Mark A. Tarnopolsky2, Emily J. Grant1, Caroline E. Correia1 and Stuart M. Phillips1
(1) Exercise Metabolism Research Group, Department of Kinesiology, McMaster University, 1280 Main St. West, Hamilton, ON, Canada, L8S 4K1
(2) Pediatrics and Neurology, McMaster University, Hamilton, ON, Canada
Accepted: 28 August 2006 Published online: 14 September 2006
Abstract We aimed to gain insight into the role that the transitory increases in anabolic hormones play in muscle hypertrophy with unilateral resistance training. Ten healthy young male subjects (21.8 ± 0.4 years, 1.78 ± 0.04 m, 75.6 ± 2.9 kg; mean ± SE) engaged in unilateral resistance training for 8 week (3 days/week). Exercises were knee extension and leg press performed at 80–90% of the subject’s single repetition maximum (1RM). Blood samples were collected in the acute period before and after the first training bout and following the last training bout and analyzed for total testosterone, free-testosterone, luteinizing hormone, sex hormone binding globulin, growth hormone, cortisol, and insulin-like growth factor-1. Thigh muscle cross sectional area (CSA) and muscle fibre CSA by biopsy (vastus lateralis) were measured pre- and post-training. Acutely, no changes in systemic hormone concentrations were observed in the 90 min period following exercise and there was no influence of training on these results. Training-induced increases were observed in type IIx and IIa muscle fibre CSA of 22 ± 3 and 13 ± 2% (both P < 0.001). No changes were observed in fibre CSA in the untrained leg (all P > 0.5). Whole muscle CSA increased by 5.4 ± 0.9% in the trained leg (P < 0.001) and remained unchanged in the untrained leg (P = 0.76). Isotonic 1RM increased in the trained leg for leg press and for knee extension (P < 0.001). No changes were seen in the untrained leg. In conclusion, unilateral training induced local muscle hypertrophy only in the exercised limb, which occurred in the absence of changes in systemic hormones that ostensibly play a role in muscle hypertrophy.</div>
I respectfully agree with Totentanz. As does this abstract.</div>
Two things.
First, I was careful to say "When squats are done sufficiently to release hormones" the systemic effect would be seen. Based on what this study says, its highly
unlikely this would happen. From whatI can see here theres not too much stimuli, Is this all of the study you have?
This is the problem with relying blindly on this type of experiment and not finding congruency with your own experiences and your own ability to reason.
Who here, after a heavy leg workout, has not at one time or another FELT a surge of testosterone after youve got your wind back? For me it happens every time on the way home. This study says this isnt the case. Who you gunna believe?
Having said that I do believe the carry over effect is limited due to the following.
Logically we would see the following IF the subject did a set of 20 rep breathing squats ( adequate to set off growth factors), a set of curls, and had lets say a strained rotator cuff.
Most of the hormonal and other healing elements would address the directly worked areas in order of most need.
The squat would induce the most serious need in the body, not only would the glutes, quads etc.. be the most affected by the excercise but they are also the most needy in terms of survival, the body distinctly reacts to survival type situation first and foremost.
Then, next,the directly stimulated arms would be addressed as they had been most recently injured.
Third would be the rotator cuffs and the rest of the body where percieved injury exists.
Finally the rest of the body.
The body will deal with the most threatening injuries first then on to the least. How much of this scenario that actaully would come to fruition would be dependant on how much growth factors are available in the system. How much GH and testostrone in the system, how much nutrients, how much electrical energy etc....
Thus the people in the study who are not adequately stimulating the growth factors are not "priming the pump" enough to expect carry over to other body parts.
Whearas a 20 rep breathing squater likely would, and a pro bodybuilder shooting copius amounts of GH will see growth all over.
Carry over is proportionate to stimulation and biological environment in the body.
I sure as hell hope I started this thread with "this is my opinion"
RR
(scientific muscle @ Jan. 14 2008,17:59)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Sarah B. Wilkinson1, Mark A. Tarnopolsky2, Emily J. Grant1, Caroline E. Correia1 and Stuart M. Phillips1
(1) Exercise Metabolism Research Group, Department of Kinesiology, McMaster University, 1280 Main St. West, Hamilton, ON, Canada, L8S 4K1
(2) Pediatrics and Neurology, McMaster University, Hamilton, ON, Canada
Accepted: 28 August 2006 Published online: 14 September 2006
Abstract We aimed to gain insight into the role that the transitory increases in anabolic hormones play in muscle hypertrophy with unilateral resistance training. Ten healthy young male subjects (21.8 ± 0.4 years, 1.78 ± 0.04 m, 75.6 ± 2.9 kg; mean ± SE) engaged in unilateral resistance training for 8 week (3 days/week). Exercises were knee extension and leg press performed at 80–90% of the subject’s single repetition maximum (1RM). Blood samples were collected in the acute period before and after the first training bout and following the last training bout and analyzed for total testosterone, free-testosterone, luteinizing hormone, sex hormone binding globulin, growth hormone, cortisol, and insulin-like growth factor-1. Thigh muscle cross sectional area (CSA) and muscle fibre CSA by biopsy (vastus lateralis) were measured pre- and post-training. Acutely, no changes in systemic hormone concentrations were observed in the 90 min period following exercise and there was no influence of training on these results. Training-induced increases were observed in type IIx and IIa muscle fibre CSA of 22 ± 3 and 13 ± 2% (both P < 0.001). No changes were observed in fibre CSA in the untrained leg (all P > 0.5). Whole muscle CSA increased by 5.4 ± 0.9% in the trained leg (P < 0.001) and remained unchanged in the untrained leg (P = 0.76). Isotonic 1RM increased in the trained leg for leg press and for knee extension (P < 0.001). No changes were seen in the untrained leg. In conclusion, unilateral training induced local muscle hypertrophy only in the exercised limb, which occurred in the absence of changes in systemic hormones that ostensibly play a role in muscle hypertrophy.</div>
I respectfully agree with Totentanz. As does this abstract.</div>
Two things.
First, I was careful to say "When squats are done sufficiently to release hormones" the systemic effect would be seen. Based on what this study says, its highly
unlikely this would happen. From whatI can see here theres not too much stimuli, Is this all of the study you have?
This is the problem with relying blindly on this type of experiment and not finding congruency with your own experiences and your own ability to reason.
Who here, after a heavy leg workout, has not at one time or another FELT a surge of testosterone after youve got your wind back? For me it happens every time on the way home. This study says this isnt the case. Who you gunna believe?
Having said that I do believe the carry over effect is limited due to the following.
Logically we would see the following IF the subject did a set of 20 rep breathing squats ( adequate to set off growth factors), a set of curls, and had lets say a strained rotator cuff.
Most of the hormonal and other healing elements would address the directly worked areas in order of most need.
The squat would induce the most serious need in the body, not only would the glutes, quads etc.. be the most affected by the excercise but they are also the most needy in terms of survival, the body distinctly reacts to survival type situation first and foremost.
Then, next,the directly stimulated arms would be addressed as they had been most recently injured.
Third would be the rotator cuffs and the rest of the body where percieved injury exists.
Finally the rest of the body.
The body will deal with the most threatening injuries first then on to the least. How much of this scenario that actaully would come to fruition would be dependant on how much growth factors are available in the system. How much GH and testostrone in the system, how much nutrients, how much electrical energy etc....
Thus the people in the study who are not adequately stimulating the growth factors are not "priming the pump" enough to expect carry over to other body parts.
Whearas a 20 rep breathing squater likely would, and a pro bodybuilder shooting copius amounts of GH will see growth all over.
Carry over is proportionate to stimulation and biological environment in the body.
I sure as hell hope I started this thread with "this is my opinion"
RR
redrooster
New Member
<div>
(TunnelRat @ Jan. 14 2008,18:12)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(redrooster @ Jan. 14 2008,18:02)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Actually Dan Im interested in hearing what you have to say.
Your photos in the HST veterans thread are a great inspiration.
Do you have a training log post?</div>
Dan has an entire website. One that gives practical application to the 20 squat routine.
Using Dan's Max-Stim technique, I have been able to do 20 squats at my 5RM, and to do so regularly.
Dan's Max-Stim site</div>
My limited understanding of Max Stim ( I didnt realize its Dans) is that it is very similar to the 20 rep breathing squat technique. Far more so than the rep - pause people seem to want to compare it to.
Ill have to give the site good reading. Does Max Stim advocate heavy/forced breathing between reps?
I was really impressedwith Dans pix and transformation.
Thanks for the heads up TR.
RR
(TunnelRat @ Jan. 14 2008,18:12)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(redrooster @ Jan. 14 2008,18:02)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Actually Dan Im interested in hearing what you have to say.
Your photos in the HST veterans thread are a great inspiration.
Do you have a training log post?</div>
Dan has an entire website. One that gives practical application to the 20 squat routine.
Using Dan's Max-Stim technique, I have been able to do 20 squats at my 5RM, and to do so regularly.
Dan's Max-Stim site</div>
My limited understanding of Max Stim ( I didnt realize its Dans) is that it is very similar to the 20 rep breathing squat technique. Far more so than the rep - pause people seem to want to compare it to.
Ill have to give the site good reading. Does Max Stim advocate heavy/forced breathing between reps?
I was really impressedwith Dans pix and transformation.
Thanks for the heads up TR.
RR
scientific muscle
New Member
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Who here, after a heavy leg workout, has not at one time or another FELT a surge of testosterone after youve got your wind back? For me it happens every time on the way home. This study says this isnt the case. Who you gunna believe?
</div>
How does a huge surge of testosterone 'feel'? I am curious. I have never felt this specifically. Did you get an erection or something?
</div>
How does a huge surge of testosterone 'feel'? I am curious. I have never felt this specifically. Did you get an erection or something?
redrooster
New Member
Dont you think that would be a good indicator to start with?
Seriously though, I could find you studies but do you really need them?
RR
Seriously though, I could find you studies but do you really need them?
RR
scientific muscle
New Member
Rahhhh!!! I just finished my squat workout and my hormones are making me HYOOOOGE and GREEN! Rahh!
scientific muscle
New Member
Sorry, I couldn't stop myself.
redrooster
New Member
scientific muscle
New Member
I can't stop cracking up now...
Yes. This is HST, a science-based site, even though our majority are only gym rats, we're well-informed rats. Whenever a disagreement should be proven, either we bow out gracefully or ante up. The point isn't about 'winning' or ego or anything. It's about Truth and not misleading any new folks with outdated, errant, or useless information.
Too many of us have come here with heads full of brologic and mythology only to happily remain after being reprogrammed! The result is usually growth.
Too many of us have come here with heads full of brologic and mythology only to happily remain after being reprogrammed! The result is usually growth.