Korte's program

slapshotz.

i would agree with steve on giving a PL meet a shot if you have some interest. i havent done one but have been to a quite few to see friends and lifting partners compete. the idea of a competition can be intimidating, especially when you see some of the big dudes participating but i am always amazed by the attitude and atmosphere of the local meets (more so then bb comp). you see almost the same amount of support/comraderie for the 220 bencher then you do for the 440 bencher. the difference in body types and ability is usually readily apparent but almost never commented on, people respect the effort as well as the balls to get under the bar in a meet.

good luck
 
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(stevejones @ Mar. 31 2007,00:57)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Strength gains are so unpredictable.  I can't ever tell my body what to do or where to get stronger, it just does it's own thing.  I can't believe that the bench press turned out to be where I have my biggest gains, and the squat turned out to be the least.</div>
Hey, Steve. Yeah, I've found that out, too. I haven't been purely strength training nearly as long as you, but one thing I've learned so far: when it comes to strength, the body goes at its own pace, and you're usually better off erring on the side of taking an extra day off as opposed to hitting it when you're not all there.

Used to be, if it was a Monday, I work out come hell or high water. Now, I let my body dictate &amp; tell me when it's ready. If I'm not going to be attempting a PB, that's one thing, but when you reach near your genetic limit, all the ducks need to be in a row, and all the stars need to line up just right in order to hit those big lifts.

Either way you cut it, though, your lifts are just monsterous...if you haven't done so already, you gotta film one of those for u-tube or something. Gallaman did so as well for some of his big lifts. Cool stuff.
 
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(bluejacket @ Mar. 31 2007,12:48)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">slapshotz.

i would agree with steve on giving a PL meet a shot if you have some interest. i havent done one but have been to a quite few to see friends and lifting partners compete. the idea of a competition can be intimidating, especially when you see some of the big dudes participating but i am always amazed by the attitude and atmosphere of the local meets (more so then bb comp). you see almost the same amount of support/comraderie for the 220 bencher then you do for the 440 bencher. the difference in body types and ability is usually readily apparent but almost never commented on, people respect the effort as well as the balls to get under the bar in a meet.

good luck</div>
Quad &amp; Blue,

Believe me, the thought has crossed my mind.  I'd like to work out one more year, though, and see how strong I can really get.  If my bench goes up 10 pounds, that would be great, but I need my squats to go up like 50 to 100 pounds, and deadlifts about 50.

One thing that all the guys who have competed have said is that there's a comraderie at these competitions, and that's definitely something that appeals to me as well.
 
Yeah, I've heard that here and there about the meets, but TBH, the local PL's at our gym seem to really support one another too. None of that &quot;your mama lifts more than you&quot; stuff - more like just pure encouragement.
 
<div>
(Lol @ Mar. 31 2007,12:32)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Steve, what did you actually have on the bar when you failed? Was it 715? If you had got a 700 squat, that's only 40lbs off a 2k total. Very cool. How much do you reckon you would drop if you had to do all the lifts the same day (like at a meet)?

Max lifts are very odd things and so much to do with the state of mind as well as the state of the body. Take today as an example: I had a mate pop in who has really strong grip (works on cars) and got out my CoC grippers. He had a go at the No1 and didn't quite get it. Wow! I was really suprised. So suprised, in fact, that I grabbed the No. 2 and crushed it! First time I've ever done it all the way so I'm sure that I was more psyched than usually plus I hadn't done lots of warmups.</div>
I had 725 on the bar.  Since I didn't even get close to getting it up, I really have no idea how much I can really do.  You are right--alot of it is mental, and I have to admit that I don't have the guts of a professional plifter.  If I feel something straining (like abdominal wall), or I get to where I'm really scared of injury, I give up.  Most professionals push right through stuff like that.
 
<div>
(stevejones @ Mar. 31 2007,23:45)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I had 725 on the bar.  Since I didn't even get close to getting it up, I really have no idea how much I can really do.</div>
725? Unreal. That's what, 7 plates aside? On a bench press? You aren't kidding when you say that you'll be a recordholder someday...and at your age, your prime is yet to come, I think.
 
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(bluejacket @ Apr. 01 2007,15:10)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">725 was for his squat attempt not bench press.</div>
I stand corrected
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725 on squat is still mighty, tho
 
yeah, 725 is good amount of wgt even if you just load the bar with that. look at it for a minute and then unload it. i dont even want to think about getting uder it.
 
<div>
(bluejacket @ Apr. 02 2007,15:55)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">yeah, 725 is good amount of wgt even if you just load the bar with that. look at it for a minute and then unload it. i dont even want to think about getting uder it.</div>
I think I could deadlift....err one side of that.
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(stevejones @ Mar. 27 2007,04:19)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I won't be much of a contender in the Shawn Ray because I only do olympic squats now and refuse to train in a bench shirt like I did for my last meet, so will just do the whole thing raw &amp; with a low squat. Bench shirts are such a huge pain in the ass, and even squat suits suck when you wear them for training. So, while I am against equipment, I'm bothered more by the difficulty of training with equipment then I am wearing it for an event. Training with shirts is no joke. It's painful. Wish there was a good 100% raw meet in colorado this year but I can't find any. Rant over</div>
Steve, have you looked into the NASA (Natural Athlete Strength Assn)? There is a pretty strong guy on bb.com who lives in Colo. and had mentioned planning to compete in a raw event. When I asked what federation he gave me that link.

Seems to emphasize natty lifting. Looks like maybe they have raw and equipped, with the equipped being limited to single ply and no canvas. Just thought I'd see if it was of interest.

Also, as a matter of curiosity, how do your gains from the Korte compare to your last couple of cycles with HST and similar training? As I recall you were getting some strength gains every cycle with maybe 2 work sets/body part each workout, at least for some time.
 
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(Lifting N Tx @ Apr. 02 2007,23:05)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(stevejones @ Mar. 27 2007,04:19)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I won't be much of a contender in the Shawn Ray because I only do olympic squats now and refuse to train in a bench shirt like I did for my last meet, so will just do the whole thing raw &amp; with a low squat.  Bench shirts are such a huge pain in the ass, and even squat suits suck when you wear them for training.  So, while I am against equipment, I'm bothered more by the difficulty of training with equipment then I am wearing it for an event.  Training with shirts is no joke.  It's painful.  Wish there was a good 100% raw meet in colorado this year but I can't find any. Rant over</div>
Steve, have you looked into the NASA (Natural Athlete Strength Assn)? There is a pretty strong guy on bb.com who lives in Colo. and had mentioned planning to compete in a raw event. When I asked what federation he gave me that link.

Seems to emphasize natty lifting. Looks like maybe they have raw and equipped, with the equipped being limited to single ply and no canvas. Just thought I'd see if it was of interest.

Also, as a matter of curiosity, how do your gains from the Korte compare to your last couple of cycles with HST and similar training? As I recall you were getting some strength gains every cycle with maybe 2 work sets/body part each workout, at least for some time.</div>
Yes, I made gains on every HST cycle EXCEPT the last one I did.  That was enough to make me try something else.  The strength gains that I made in the deadlift were more significant than the gains using HST, the squat--well, I can't be sure because I don't know how much I can do.  The bench--better gains, BUT I wasn't doing bench for a long time while on HST.  

HST needs to be revised.  When I began doing HST I didn't understand the importance of percentages, and just subtracted 100 lbs or so off of my maxes as was suggested on the website.  A 100lb subtraction on some lifts were about 87-88% of my max.  This was too heavy to start the program.   I eventually figured out I needed to work with percentages instead of &quot;just subtracting 100 lbs or so.&quot;  

So, even though I screwed up (for my strength level), I still managed to get a bit stronger in most of the cycles because I was so heavily focused on my strength level.  While I understand that HST is not a strength program, it is still geared to getting you stronger so hypertrophy can occur.  I mean, the entire program is geared around using progressive load so that you can eventually do more reps or use heavier weight at the end of your cycle.  

My legs are frikken enormous now because of the volume I did on Korte's stuff.  So, I think what is extremely conducive to growth is improving your strength, and then working out with high volume.  I think most on the forum already know that anyway.

I never worked with high volume while on HST, I just got stronger.  I'm actually not too happy with this size because it makes it that more difficult to stay in my weight class.  I'll have to move up to the 275lb class if this keeps up.  Especially with the way I'll be eating during this Sheiko stuff.  After my workout tonight I ate 4 oranges 2 bananas 2 cups grapes 12oz beef 1 cup egg whites 1 cup brown rice 1 tbsp peanut butter and i'm still famished.  At least I&quot;m keeping the diet clean so I don't start eating 5 quarter pounders at one sitting.

Thanks for the link.  That's a popular organization, although I've never competed in it.  What's your friend's name and where does he live?
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">HST needs to be revised. When I began doing HST I didn't understand the importance of percentages, and just subtracted 100 lbs or so off of my maxes as was suggested on the website. A 100lb subtraction on some lifts were about 87-88% of my max. This was too heavy to start the program. I eventually figured out I needed to work with percentages instead of &quot;just subtracting 100 lbs or so.&quot; </div>

I never even saw that on this website. I know most of us around her suggest starting off at 60-70% of the given RM.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">After my workout tonight I ate 4 oranges 2 bananas 2 cups grapes 12oz beef 1 cup egg whites 1 cup brown rice 1 tbsp peanut butter and i'm still famished. At least I&quot;m keeping the diet clean so I don't start eating 5 quarter pounders at one sitting.</div>

Haha, good call Steve!
cool.gif
 
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(stevejones @ Apr. 03 2007,01:17)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
Lifting N Tx said:
Thanks for the link. That's a popular organization, although I've never competed in it. What's your friend's name and where does he live?</div>
Steve, it's this guy, and I believe he's somewhere in the Denver metro area.

Sharp guy, and I've followed his journal for some time. I noticed his comment about wanting to compete in a natty event and PM'd him to ask what the organization was.

If you wanted to get in touch I could PM him your email if you wish. More than that would be up to him. I don't know him in person, but he seems to be a good guy.
Click to expand...
 
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(colby2152 @ Apr. 03 2007,11:39)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">HST needs to be revised. When I began doing HST I didn't understand the importance of percentages, and just subtracted 100 lbs or so off of my maxes as was suggested on the website. A 100lb subtraction on some lifts were about 87-88% of my max. This was too heavy to start the program. I eventually figured out I needed to work with percentages instead of &quot;just subtracting 100 lbs or so.&quot; </div>

I never even saw that on this website. I know most of us around her suggest starting off at 60-70% of the given RM.</div>
I'm pretty sure I've seen that before, might have been in one of the faqs?

Anyway, I agree with steve that it should be made clearer about using percentages instead of &quot;subtract 100 lbs or so.&quot; I'm guessing that Bryan was assuming that advanced lifters who are strong enough to worry about that would just figure it out themselves, but that's not necessarily true.
Percentages are a better way to go about it.

I'm sure most of us do that already? I would hope so anyway, but it should definitely be posted in the faq or something. Maybe an updated HST article?
 
Steve-
How on earth you got as big you are without steroids I'll never know.  Many guys couldn't get as big even with steroids.  It just goes to show how extremely important genetics really are.
I am one who has to struggle not to be a stringbean.
 
One question on your extraordinary strength, Steve: how did you gain it? Mainly with HST and 5x5? As far as I've followed the threads on this forum, your transformation into a PL and thus corresponding interest for PL-programs like Korte's is relatively new, ain't it?
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">After my workout tonight I ate 4 oranges 2 bananas 2 cups grapes 12oz beef 1 cup egg whites 1 cup brown rice 1 tbsp peanut butter and i'm still famished</div>

That's nearly my caloric intake for an entire day....how embarrassing!!!!
 
Modog; as I recall, I met Steve when we were doing MuscleNow, then we did a stint with DC training, I think he did another program after that, then we ended up in HST, 5x5's and he just did the Korte's. I don't know what he did before MN, but he was enormous at the end of it. So if you're looking for a golden program, I think I can safely say, there IS no gp...just experimentation with wisdom and record-keeping and paying attention to what works for your body in your space at your time.
For some reason, image posting is disabled for this thread. I think I have an old pic of Steve in the MN program. Shoulders like boulders.
 
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(quadancer @ Apr. 04 2007,08:35)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">So if you're looking for a golden program, I think I can safely say, there IS no gp...just experimentation with wisdom and record-keeping and paying attention to what works for your body in your space at your time.</div>
I think that you hit the nail on the head here, Quad.

As Steve said:
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(stevejones @ Apr. 03 2007,01:17)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
So, I think what is extremely conducive to growth is improving your strength, and then working out with high volume. I think most on the forum already know that anyway.
</div>
The thing is, people think in terms of programs and want something handed to them. What we need to think of is intensity (load as % of 1RM, not how hard you think you're working), frequency, volume, etc. Too many people think of HST as a program instead of as principles. So people stall and change programs and maybe it works a while. &quot;Oh, I've now discovered the magic program&quot;. Worse &quot;I confused/shocked my muscles, so they grew&quot;. Really they just altered some of the variables and it turned out to be the right stimulus.

Learn how to manipulate volume, load, frequency appropriately for your body and you should be able to make gains regardless of what &quot;program&quot; you are on. Learning how to do that is an art, especially since what your body needs will change as you become more advanced.

Another tricky thing is that there is probably more than one combination of these variables that can work for the same person at the same time. Starting with a known successful program just gives you a good starting point that has worked reasonably well for a lot of people. The hard work is not just taking something handed to you and doing it, but learning from your body's response to it, and learning to adjust the variables to your body's current needs in order to continue progressing.
 
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