Lol's New HST Log
- Thread starter Lol
- Start date
Yeah, I've been doing paused squats and bench for a few months now.
I much prefer paused bench to no pause. Squats are great to pause at lighter loads but it sucks trying to pause when it gets heavy. I've been doing paused chins too, where I pause long enough to remove all possibility of bouncing out of the fully-extended position.
I've made the guys I train do the same and the results have been interesting. Form has been much better across the board but their loads for sets of 5 across haven't come back up to where they were yet. That indicates how much bounce they were getting off the chest, particularly for the last few reps of each set. I'm pretty confident that consistent pausing will allow them to gauge their progress better over time.
I much prefer paused bench to no pause. Squats are great to pause at lighter loads but it sucks trying to pause when it gets heavy. I've been doing paused chins too, where I pause long enough to remove all possibility of bouncing out of the fully-extended position.
I've made the guys I train do the same and the results have been interesting. Form has been much better across the board but their loads for sets of 5 across haven't come back up to where they were yet. That indicates how much bounce they were getting off the chest, particularly for the last few reps of each set. I'm pretty confident that consistent pausing will allow them to gauge their progress better over time.
Fri 18/12/09
Paused Low-bar Squat:
warmups
10 x 110kg (242lb)
10 x 110kg (242lb)
Heaviest squats since my op and all reps felt solid. About 1 sec pauses. Last few reps were quite tough and the temptation not to pause was great.
EZ-bar Press:
15 x 36kg
10 x 46kg (101lb)
10 x 56kg (123lb)
10 x 56kg (123lb)
During the second set of 10 with 56kg I had a few sharp pains down below which was a bit disconcerting so stopped there. I evidently still have to be a bit careful when I am pushing hard and with my hips open; that's definitely when most pressure is on the inguinal area.
After, went to see a late showing of Avatar - my first Real-D cinema experience. Quite astounding, even if the story line wasn't great. The CG characters were just about the best I've seen; still not quite believable yet but very good. How weird is it to think a blue CG alien is pretty hot/fit?! Didn't get to see what they were eating but evidently it was fairly low-carb.
Paused Low-bar Squat:
warmups
10 x 110kg (242lb)
10 x 110kg (242lb)
Heaviest squats since my op and all reps felt solid. About 1 sec pauses. Last few reps were quite tough and the temptation not to pause was great.
EZ-bar Press:
15 x 36kg
10 x 46kg (101lb)
10 x 56kg (123lb)
10 x 56kg (123lb)
During the second set of 10 with 56kg I had a few sharp pains down below which was a bit disconcerting so stopped there. I evidently still have to be a bit careful when I am pushing hard and with my hips open; that's definitely when most pressure is on the inguinal area.
After, went to see a late showing of Avatar - my first Real-D cinema experience. Quite astounding, even if the story line wasn't great. The CG characters were just about the best I've seen; still not quite believable yet but very good. How weird is it to think a blue CG alien is pretty hot/fit?! Didn't get to see what they were eating but evidently it was fairly low-carb.
Mon 21/12/09
After watching a vid of Louie Simmons talking about wide-stance squatting, I did some wide-stance squats with 60kg for warmups. Feet were placed at the inside edges of my rack which is about 40 inches apart. Surprisingly, my hips felt okay and I think my depth was at least parallel. My hips have always been tight as far as external rotation and transverse abduction are concerned so if I can do these with reasonably decent form it'll be a sign of some improvement in my flexibility. I'll work on these with light weights for a while until I feel ready to train this new stance.
Louie is categorical in his view that everyone should be able to squat more than they deadlift and that wide-stance squats build narrower-stance squats but not vice versa. It will be pretty darn cool if this turns out to be my experience.
Here are links to a couple of the vids I watched:
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFit_LouieSimmonsIntro.mov
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFit_LouieSimmonsIntro.wmv
(skip to 1 minute in for the 'good' stuff!)
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFit_SimmonsWideStance.mov
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFit_SimmonsWideStance.wmv
(second links are to wmv versions )
OHS:
10 x 40kg
10 x 45kg
10 x 50kg
8 x 60kg PR
I'm in no rush to push the loads up quickly for these babies. My right wrist and shoulders always complain so I'm going to take things slowly and steadily and hope they gradually toughen up. It's a good warmup for legs anyway. I have to snatch the weight up so my snatch technique will also need to improve if I'm to keep making progress. PR for reps tonight. Paused each rep in the hole. Right wrist was wrapped for support.
One positive thing I am noticing is that I am getting hardly any "buzzing" in my thumbs and index fingers (from nerve impingement). Improved shoulder flexibility from all the dislocates I have been doing must be helping. I'm happy about that.
Front Squat:
10 x 60kg
Squat Cleans:
10 x 60kg
10 x 60kg
5 x 70kg (154lb)
These are tiring. I was intending to get 10 reps for the last set but I wimped. Next time.
Paused Bench:
10 x 77.5kg (171lb) @ RPE 9
10 x 77.5kg (171lb) @ RPE 9
10 x 77.5kg (171lb) @ RPE 9.5
Left shoulder was rubbish but less uncomfortable by the last set. Last rep of each set was hard.
Chins:
10 x bw
4+3,1,1,1 x bw+25kg (55lb)
Hmm, didn't quite make 5 reps for the first work set so I turned it into a psuedo Myorep set to get a total of 10 reps. Too heavy for a proper M-R set. I need to to do a lot more work on these.
After watching a vid of Louie Simmons talking about wide-stance squatting, I did some wide-stance squats with 60kg for warmups. Feet were placed at the inside edges of my rack which is about 40 inches apart. Surprisingly, my hips felt okay and I think my depth was at least parallel. My hips have always been tight as far as external rotation and transverse abduction are concerned so if I can do these with reasonably decent form it'll be a sign of some improvement in my flexibility. I'll work on these with light weights for a while until I feel ready to train this new stance.
Louie is categorical in his view that everyone should be able to squat more than they deadlift and that wide-stance squats build narrower-stance squats but not vice versa. It will be pretty darn cool if this turns out to be my experience.
Here are links to a couple of the vids I watched:
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFit_LouieSimmonsIntro.mov
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFit_LouieSimmonsIntro.wmv
(skip to 1 minute in for the 'good' stuff!)
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFit_SimmonsWideStance.mov
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFit_SimmonsWideStance.wmv
(second links are to wmv versions )
OHS:
10 x 40kg
10 x 45kg
10 x 50kg
8 x 60kg PR
I'm in no rush to push the loads up quickly for these babies. My right wrist and shoulders always complain so I'm going to take things slowly and steadily and hope they gradually toughen up. It's a good warmup for legs anyway. I have to snatch the weight up so my snatch technique will also need to improve if I'm to keep making progress. PR for reps tonight. Paused each rep in the hole. Right wrist was wrapped for support.
One positive thing I am noticing is that I am getting hardly any "buzzing" in my thumbs and index fingers (from nerve impingement). Improved shoulder flexibility from all the dislocates I have been doing must be helping. I'm happy about that.
Front Squat:
10 x 60kg
Squat Cleans:
10 x 60kg
10 x 60kg
5 x 70kg (154lb)
These are tiring. I was intending to get 10 reps for the last set but I wimped. Next time.
Paused Bench:
10 x 77.5kg (171lb) @ RPE 9
10 x 77.5kg (171lb) @ RPE 9
10 x 77.5kg (171lb) @ RPE 9.5
Left shoulder was rubbish but less uncomfortable by the last set. Last rep of each set was hard.
Chins:
10 x bw
4+3,1,1,1 x bw+25kg (55lb)
Hmm, didn't quite make 5 reps for the first work set so I turned it into a psuedo Myorep set to get a total of 10 reps. Too heavy for a proper M-R set. I need to to do a lot more work on these.
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Louie is categorical in his view that everyone should be able to squat more than they deadlift and that wide-stance squats build narrower-stance squats but not vice versa. It will be pretty darn cool if this turns out to be my experience.</div>
Louie is on ******* crack with both of these statements, pardon my language.
I'm going to copy/paste stuff I wrote on startingstrength.com about this recently...
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">He's wrong, and obviously so. I realize that's probably sacrilege, but oh well.
As a rule of thumb, you can predict a movement's carryover to other, similar movements by the range of motion around the relevant joints in that movement, along with how much weight you're actually lifting. More ROM at a given weight = better transfer. As an easy example here, I've always found that weighted dips transfer very well for me to other push exercises, whereas many other people have not. However, most people do weighted dips for very little ROM with a wide grip, whereas my ROM on them has always been bordering on the extreme with a narrow grip. This is not a coincidence.
Louie is a great coach, but his comments here do not seem to be based in reality for most people, and I invite anybody to experiment and find out for themselves. I honestly believe that the vast majority of people will find that a narrower stance squat has better transfer to other lower body lifts, including other squat variants, than the other way around. I leave open the possibility that a minority will find this is not the case.
In terms of anecodtal evidence, I can think of three retardedly strong people off the top of my head who have noted the exact same thing: Fred Hatfield, Glenn Pendlay and Konstantinovs. Fred has described making athletes use an "athletic" squat for the majority of their training in order to build strength, and wider stance affairs to "demonstrate" it. Glenn has written extensively about his use of "olympic" squats transferring much, much better to everything than his previous use of wider stance, PL squats. Konstantinovs has written that he uses "olympic" squats (though vids reveal he is simply doing low bar squats with a shoulder width stance) as they transfer better to his deadlift.
All of that said, in order to maximize your squat out of context, a wider stance will obviously work better than a narrower stance, to a point, so I'm not doubting the validity of wider stance squats for competition purposes. But Louie is talking about general strength transfer here.</div>
I have trained both styles for extended periods of time. A couple of years back, I went through another stint of wide stance squatting, and my close stance squat started to detrain pretty rapidly with lack of practice, whereas my wide stance squat was basically always fine as long as I was doing narrower stance squats.
Wide stance squats are a useful exercise, but a moderate stance squat has a very obviously higher carryover to everything, both in my experience, and in the experience of people whose opinion, quite frankly, I'd take more seriously than Louie's (e.g. Glenn Pendlay).
Also, Louie's stance that somebody could "wide stance squat" more than they could deadlift, if Louie means a legitimately past parallel squat, is so crazy that it's hard to even address. This basically never happens in actually deep squats that are done without ridiculous squat suits.
Louie is on ******* crack with both of these statements, pardon my language.
I'm going to copy/paste stuff I wrote on startingstrength.com about this recently...
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">He's wrong, and obviously so. I realize that's probably sacrilege, but oh well.
As a rule of thumb, you can predict a movement's carryover to other, similar movements by the range of motion around the relevant joints in that movement, along with how much weight you're actually lifting. More ROM at a given weight = better transfer. As an easy example here, I've always found that weighted dips transfer very well for me to other push exercises, whereas many other people have not. However, most people do weighted dips for very little ROM with a wide grip, whereas my ROM on them has always been bordering on the extreme with a narrow grip. This is not a coincidence.
Louie is a great coach, but his comments here do not seem to be based in reality for most people, and I invite anybody to experiment and find out for themselves. I honestly believe that the vast majority of people will find that a narrower stance squat has better transfer to other lower body lifts, including other squat variants, than the other way around. I leave open the possibility that a minority will find this is not the case.
In terms of anecodtal evidence, I can think of three retardedly strong people off the top of my head who have noted the exact same thing: Fred Hatfield, Glenn Pendlay and Konstantinovs. Fred has described making athletes use an "athletic" squat for the majority of their training in order to build strength, and wider stance affairs to "demonstrate" it. Glenn has written extensively about his use of "olympic" squats transferring much, much better to everything than his previous use of wider stance, PL squats. Konstantinovs has written that he uses "olympic" squats (though vids reveal he is simply doing low bar squats with a shoulder width stance) as they transfer better to his deadlift.
All of that said, in order to maximize your squat out of context, a wider stance will obviously work better than a narrower stance, to a point, so I'm not doubting the validity of wider stance squats for competition purposes. But Louie is talking about general strength transfer here.</div>
I have trained both styles for extended periods of time. A couple of years back, I went through another stint of wide stance squatting, and my close stance squat started to detrain pretty rapidly with lack of practice, whereas my wide stance squat was basically always fine as long as I was doing narrower stance squats.
Wide stance squats are a useful exercise, but a moderate stance squat has a very obviously higher carryover to everything, both in my experience, and in the experience of people whose opinion, quite frankly, I'd take more seriously than Louie's (e.g. Glenn Pendlay).
Also, Louie's stance that somebody could "wide stance squat" more than they could deadlift, if Louie means a legitimately past parallel squat, is so crazy that it's hard to even address. This basically never happens in actually deep squats that are done without ridiculous squat suits.
He, he. I wondered if this might cause a response. Interesting what you say Mike. I'm actually very pleased to hear it as I find a wide stance less than comfortable.
(I've put some links to the vids in question in my previous post.)
I'm not actually sure how wide Louie regards as wide for someone my height? I'm just over 5'10" and find that a 40" wide stance feels plenty wide enough; if my hip-to-foot measurement is different than it is for someone else of a similar height then I'm having to use a different hip angle to get the same width of stance. I don't suppose it'll make much difference though.
I did wonder whether Louie's "you can always squat more than you can dead" claim depended on assistance clothing? He didn't mention it. Evidently a squat suit is going to help a whole lot more than anything you can wear for deadlifting.
I always keep in mind that all the Westside lifters will be on chemicals, but that shouldn't matter in this case. A low-bar wide-stance squat is reducing the ROM as much as possible so if it can be trained then I guess it should lead to higher poundages being possible as long as joint stability isn't compromised.
As far as strength/power transference to a narrower stance is concerned, I can see that it might work by increasing the training effect on the hip extensors and adductors. These muscles would be working through a more stretched ROM which, due to the possible greater loads, might well produce a greater PS response than for regular squats. Stronger adductors and hip extensors should help with turn-around strength (coming out of the hole) in a regular squat. I would also think that you would have to continue to train regular squats as usual so that quad strength didn't drop off. Maybe that's what happened to you when you focussed on wide-stance squatting?
I found the same thing to be true with my preferred dip form: a narrower grip and full ROM have a pretty good carryover to my benching. Wide-grip dips, on the other hand, do my shoulders no favours at all.
(I've put some links to the vids in question in my previous post.)
I'm not actually sure how wide Louie regards as wide for someone my height? I'm just over 5'10" and find that a 40" wide stance feels plenty wide enough; if my hip-to-foot measurement is different than it is for someone else of a similar height then I'm having to use a different hip angle to get the same width of stance. I don't suppose it'll make much difference though.
I did wonder whether Louie's "you can always squat more than you can dead" claim depended on assistance clothing? He didn't mention it. Evidently a squat suit is going to help a whole lot more than anything you can wear for deadlifting.
I always keep in mind that all the Westside lifters will be on chemicals, but that shouldn't matter in this case. A low-bar wide-stance squat is reducing the ROM as much as possible so if it can be trained then I guess it should lead to higher poundages being possible as long as joint stability isn't compromised.
As far as strength/power transference to a narrower stance is concerned, I can see that it might work by increasing the training effect on the hip extensors and adductors. These muscles would be working through a more stretched ROM which, due to the possible greater loads, might well produce a greater PS response than for regular squats. Stronger adductors and hip extensors should help with turn-around strength (coming out of the hole) in a regular squat. I would also think that you would have to continue to train regular squats as usual so that quad strength didn't drop off. Maybe that's what happened to you when you focussed on wide-stance squatting?
I found the same thing to be true with my preferred dip form: a narrower grip and full ROM have a pretty good carryover to my benching. Wide-grip dips, on the other hand, do my shoulders no favours at all.
Wed 23/12/09
Paused Low-bar Squat:
warmups
10 x 115kg (253lb) @ RPE 8
10 x 115kg (253lb) @ RPE 9
Bit better than last time. Second set was hard but there was definitely one left in the tank. I'm hoping I can get 10 paused reps with at least 120kg.
OHS:
10 x 40kg
Shoulders didn't feel great tonight so just one light set of these for practice.
Croc Rows:
10 x 36kg
10 x 46kg
15 x 58½kg (129lb) @ RPE 9
Pull-ups:
5 x bw
10 x bw
First set was a rubbish effort. Second set was better but 10 reps was a max effort.
O-bar Curls:
15 x 40kg (88lb)
Just because the bar was there!
Also did some hi-rep shoulder presses for a bit of lactic acid generation.
Paused Low-bar Squat:
warmups
10 x 115kg (253lb) @ RPE 8
10 x 115kg (253lb) @ RPE 9
Bit better than last time. Second set was hard but there was definitely one left in the tank. I'm hoping I can get 10 paused reps with at least 120kg.
OHS:
10 x 40kg
Shoulders didn't feel great tonight so just one light set of these for practice.
Croc Rows:
10 x 36kg
10 x 46kg
15 x 58½kg (129lb) @ RPE 9
Pull-ups:
5 x bw
10 x bw
First set was a rubbish effort. Second set was better but 10 reps was a max effort.
O-bar Curls:
15 x 40kg (88lb)
Just because the bar was there!
Also did some hi-rep shoulder presses for a bit of lactic acid generation.
I've been putting together a shopping list for weight/fitness related gear.
Concept 2 rower - for my favourite form of cardio/metcon
These things are expensive but they hold their value well and have a very useful and well thought out monitor.
International Bearing 20kg Olympic Bar - 28mm, 7ft, 500kg rated
I need another bar and as I bent the last one I decided I ought to get a half-decent, Oly training bar. Not cheap but much less than a comp bar.
Solid Rubber training discs - 4 x 20kg, 2 x 5kg
(I'm probably going to go with York for the bar and plates, mainly because I can get them in the UK without having to pay silly money for them.)
Horizontal Plate Rack - for much easier access to plates.
or
Single Sided Plate Tree - the York one
I have a plate tree but it's pretty crappy and is bending all out of shape.
Powerlifting Belt: probably have to get one from Pullum Sports. Should I go fancy and get a lever belt or stick with a traditional belt and buckle?
http://www.pullum-sports.co.uk/accesso....15.html
Wrist Wraps - to support my feeble right wrist when benching and OHSing.
Other possible purchases include a better flat bench and getting a Prowler made up by a local welder. Might get him to make the bench too.
Any thoughts/suggestions/recommendations welcome. TIA.
Concept 2 rower - for my favourite form of cardio/metcon
These things are expensive but they hold their value well and have a very useful and well thought out monitor.
International Bearing 20kg Olympic Bar - 28mm, 7ft, 500kg rated
I need another bar and as I bent the last one I decided I ought to get a half-decent, Oly training bar. Not cheap but much less than a comp bar.
Solid Rubber training discs - 4 x 20kg, 2 x 5kg
(I'm probably going to go with York for the bar and plates, mainly because I can get them in the UK without having to pay silly money for them.)
Horizontal Plate Rack - for much easier access to plates.
or
Single Sided Plate Tree - the York one
I have a plate tree but it's pretty crappy and is bending all out of shape.
Powerlifting Belt: probably have to get one from Pullum Sports. Should I go fancy and get a lever belt or stick with a traditional belt and buckle?
http://www.pullum-sports.co.uk/accesso....15.html
Wrist Wraps - to support my feeble right wrist when benching and OHSing.
Other possible purchases include a better flat bench and getting a Prowler made up by a local welder. Might get him to make the bench too.
Any thoughts/suggestions/recommendations welcome. TIA.
Fri 25/12/09
Not much and nothing heavy today.
Brisk walk.
Bench:
warmups
9 x 87.5kg (193lb) Paused @ RPE 9
6 x 87.5kg (193lb) Paused @ RPE 9
9 x 87.5kg (193lb) Non-paused @ RPE 9
Thought I would get 10 reps for the last set; reps felt so much easier without pausing but ran out of steam on rep 9 and didn't push for one more.
C&J:
10 x 60kg
3 x 5 x 62.5kg
Bar lowered under control for all reps.
Thrusters:
15 x 40kg
For those who are unfamiliar with thrusters, they are a combined front squat and push press, done as a single smooth movement. I need to practice them if I am to have a go at getting a half-respectable CF Fran time. It's easy to get off balance when doing them quickly.
A Fran consists of three rounds for time of thrusters and pull-ups. First round is 21 reps, second round is 15 reps, and the third round is 9 reps for a total of 45 reps each exercise. Thrusters are done with a 95lb bar. Pull-ups are to chin over bar, performed any way you like ie. kipping is fine. When a Fran is performed as quickly as possible, with no rest between sets, it is particularly challenging metabolically.
---------
Quad: I'll check out your weight rack. I'm pretty sure I couldn't make anything comparable for the equivalent of $6 over here. It would cost me more than that in fuel just getting to builders merchants! Possible hidden costs apart from the timber, nuts and bolts, steel bar etc: time, skill, tools. Still, it's only got to hold plates so I may well have a go at knocking one together. I suppose I could just fix a length of 4"x2", with some foot-long steel rods sticking out of it, to a wall. Not mobile but it'd get the job done.
Not much and nothing heavy today.
Brisk walk.
Bench:
warmups
9 x 87.5kg (193lb) Paused @ RPE 9
6 x 87.5kg (193lb) Paused @ RPE 9
9 x 87.5kg (193lb) Non-paused @ RPE 9
Thought I would get 10 reps for the last set; reps felt so much easier without pausing but ran out of steam on rep 9 and didn't push for one more.
C&J:
10 x 60kg
3 x 5 x 62.5kg
Bar lowered under control for all reps.
Thrusters:
15 x 40kg
For those who are unfamiliar with thrusters, they are a combined front squat and push press, done as a single smooth movement. I need to practice them if I am to have a go at getting a half-respectable CF Fran time. It's easy to get off balance when doing them quickly.
A Fran consists of three rounds for time of thrusters and pull-ups. First round is 21 reps, second round is 15 reps, and the third round is 9 reps for a total of 45 reps each exercise. Thrusters are done with a 95lb bar. Pull-ups are to chin over bar, performed any way you like ie. kipping is fine. When a Fran is performed as quickly as possible, with no rest between sets, it is particularly challenging metabolically.
---------
Quad: I'll check out your weight rack. I'm pretty sure I couldn't make anything comparable for the equivalent of $6 over here. It would cost me more than that in fuel just getting to builders merchants! Possible hidden costs apart from the timber, nuts and bolts, steel bar etc: time, skill, tools. Still, it's only got to hold plates so I may well have a go at knocking one together. I suppose I could just fix a length of 4"x2", with some foot-long steel rods sticking out of it, to a wall. Not mobile but it'd get the job done.
I used 2x4's and a wooden closet rod, but any piece of pipe strong enough to hold the weights and use a hole saw that size for the bore. You'll want to have to hammer the pipe/rod in so it stays put, or drill the side of the 2x4 for a lag bolt to lock it in place. Easy/cheap. Dat's me.
Sun 27/12/09
Until I get hold of a Concept 2 rower I'm going to have a go at Sumo-Dead High-Pulls using a 20kg Oly bar: bar taken from mid-shin to under chin. I have been recommended to substitute 100 SDHPs per 1k on a rower. Tonight I decided to try 200 SDHPs as the equivalent of a 2k row.
Sumo Dead High Pull (SDHP):
200 x 20kg - 6 min 26 sec
Phew! Can't believe how hard that was. My lungs felt 'itchy' afterwards for about 15 mins. I actually thought I might be able to continue on to 500 SDHPs, the equivalent of a 5k row, but getting to 200 was plenty hard enough.
Until I get hold of a Concept 2 rower I'm going to have a go at Sumo-Dead High-Pulls using a 20kg Oly bar: bar taken from mid-shin to under chin. I have been recommended to substitute 100 SDHPs per 1k on a rower. Tonight I decided to try 200 SDHPs as the equivalent of a 2k row.
Sumo Dead High Pull (SDHP):
200 x 20kg - 6 min 26 sec
Phew! Can't believe how hard that was. My lungs felt 'itchy' afterwards for about 15 mins. I actually thought I might be able to continue on to 500 SDHPs, the equivalent of a 5k row, but getting to 200 was plenty hard enough.
Mon 28/12/09
Dislocates and lunges for warmups
Paused Squats:
10 x 60kg
2 x 10 x 120kg (264lb) PR
Pleased with that. Second set was hard; probably around RPE = 9. I still think there's a bit more to come for the first set. Maybe 125kg (275lb)?
Followed this with a very humbling experience...
My lad decided to attempt a Fran (Crossfit metcom workout - three rounds for time of 95lb thrusters (front squat into push-press) and pull-ups; 21 reps, 15 reps, and finally 9 reps for a total of 45 reps each) and I (stupidly) said I would have a go afterwards. He did pretty well up to the third round, esp. for a first attempt. At that point he called it quits. He used a reduced weight for the thrusters.
I used the recommended 95lb for the thrusters. At the end of round 1 (ie. after 21 reps of thrusters and pull-ups) I was destroyed. My lungs were actually burning!
Now, I'm hoping that my inability to go any farther was at least in part due to having squatted just beforehand. Legs definitely felt sluggish and trying to move fast was tough. I just wasn't able to maintain the required level of power output. I felt okay up to about the tenth pull-up and then it was like hitting a wall; the last 11 reps were ridiculously hard. I couldn't kip anymore and I was breathing like a train. So I called it quits after one round.
Because this was such a humbling experience I'm going to approach it differently: rather than slow the rep speeds down (which would reduce power output), I'll reduce the reps each round and then build them back up over time. I'll try 10, 8, 6 next time for a total of 24 reps each. That'll only be 3 more reps of thrusters and pull-ups than I did tonight but I should get better recovery and reduced fatigue build-up swapping between the two movements.
Having been an asthmatic for most of my youth, this form of training has a definite appeal to me. I'd love to get to the point where I can do a proper Fran in under 4 minutes.
Lol's failed Fran:
21 x 95lb Thrusters
21 x BW Pull-ups
Ridiculously slow time of 2min 50sec due to stalling out during pull-ups.
Croc Rows:
15 x 58½kg (129lb)
Push-ups:
30 x bw
Couldn't face much after my failed Fran attempt.
My lungs were not back to feeling normal for over an hour afterwards.
Dislocates and lunges for warmups
Paused Squats:
10 x 60kg
2 x 10 x 120kg (264lb) PR
Pleased with that. Second set was hard; probably around RPE = 9. I still think there's a bit more to come for the first set. Maybe 125kg (275lb)?
Followed this with a very humbling experience...
My lad decided to attempt a Fran (Crossfit metcom workout - three rounds for time of 95lb thrusters (front squat into push-press) and pull-ups; 21 reps, 15 reps, and finally 9 reps for a total of 45 reps each) and I (stupidly) said I would have a go afterwards. He did pretty well up to the third round, esp. for a first attempt. At that point he called it quits. He used a reduced weight for the thrusters.
I used the recommended 95lb for the thrusters. At the end of round 1 (ie. after 21 reps of thrusters and pull-ups) I was destroyed. My lungs were actually burning!
Now, I'm hoping that my inability to go any farther was at least in part due to having squatted just beforehand. Legs definitely felt sluggish and trying to move fast was tough. I just wasn't able to maintain the required level of power output. I felt okay up to about the tenth pull-up and then it was like hitting a wall; the last 11 reps were ridiculously hard. I couldn't kip anymore and I was breathing like a train. So I called it quits after one round.
Because this was such a humbling experience I'm going to approach it differently: rather than slow the rep speeds down (which would reduce power output), I'll reduce the reps each round and then build them back up over time. I'll try 10, 8, 6 next time for a total of 24 reps each. That'll only be 3 more reps of thrusters and pull-ups than I did tonight but I should get better recovery and reduced fatigue build-up swapping between the two movements.
Having been an asthmatic for most of my youth, this form of training has a definite appeal to me. I'd love to get to the point where I can do a proper Fran in under 4 minutes.
Lol's failed Fran:
21 x 95lb Thrusters
21 x BW Pull-ups
Ridiculously slow time of 2min 50sec due to stalling out during pull-ups.
Croc Rows:
15 x 58½kg (129lb)
Push-ups:
30 x bw
Couldn't face much after my failed Fran attempt.
My lungs were not back to feeling normal for over an hour afterwards.
From a few days ago while visiting family:
Thurs 31/12/09
a.m.
Rowing:
2 x 1k on Concept 2 Rower both around 3 minutes 30 seconds.
My dad has a C2 rower and this was my first time on it; I loved it!
I set a goal to beat my brothers 7:04 2k time by the end of my stay. For my first session, I intended to try a 2k after some warmup work. I tried to keep to a 1:44/500m pace, which would have resulted in a time of 6:56, but at the half-way mark my lungs were screaming so I quit. Wow, 7:04 was not going to be an easy time to match, let alone beat; my respect for my brother went up more than a few notches – he does a lot of cycling and swimming so his lungs are a lot more accustomed to this kind of punishment.
After a breather I decided to go for a further 1k and to try to maintain the same pace. Just about made it but I was really wiped out. Although I recovered quite quickly, my lungs were left feeling itchy for several hours afterwards; legs were tired too, particularly hams and glutes.
It was very apparent that to maintain a 1:45/500m pace for 2k I was going to have to improve my stamina a fair bit. I was pretty chuffed that I was able to maintain a 1:45 pace for 1k at my first attempt. Evidently, high rep (ie. 15s) deads and squats help with this to some degree.
p.m.
Worked out with my brother at his place. Garage workout so it was pretty cold; no desire to hang about between sets so we just banged 'em out.
Cleans for general warmup
Paused Low-bar Squat:
10 x 60kg
2 x 10 x 100kg @ RPE 7-8
These felt a little harder than they usually would, most likely due to the rowing earlier in the day.
Press:
warmups
3 x 10 x 45kg
Cleans:
10 x 70kg (154lb)
10 x 80kg (176lb)
First set was power cleans; second set was squat cleans.
Nothing heavy but it was good to keep the wheels turning.
Thurs 31/12/09
a.m.
Rowing:
2 x 1k on Concept 2 Rower both around 3 minutes 30 seconds.
My dad has a C2 rower and this was my first time on it; I loved it!
I set a goal to beat my brothers 7:04 2k time by the end of my stay. For my first session, I intended to try a 2k after some warmup work. I tried to keep to a 1:44/500m pace, which would have resulted in a time of 6:56, but at the half-way mark my lungs were screaming so I quit. Wow, 7:04 was not going to be an easy time to match, let alone beat; my respect for my brother went up more than a few notches – he does a lot of cycling and swimming so his lungs are a lot more accustomed to this kind of punishment.
After a breather I decided to go for a further 1k and to try to maintain the same pace. Just about made it but I was really wiped out. Although I recovered quite quickly, my lungs were left feeling itchy for several hours afterwards; legs were tired too, particularly hams and glutes.
It was very apparent that to maintain a 1:45/500m pace for 2k I was going to have to improve my stamina a fair bit. I was pretty chuffed that I was able to maintain a 1:45 pace for 1k at my first attempt. Evidently, high rep (ie. 15s) deads and squats help with this to some degree.
p.m.
Worked out with my brother at his place. Garage workout so it was pretty cold; no desire to hang about between sets so we just banged 'em out.
Cleans for general warmup
Paused Low-bar Squat:
10 x 60kg
2 x 10 x 100kg @ RPE 7-8
These felt a little harder than they usually would, most likely due to the rowing earlier in the day.
Press:
warmups
3 x 10 x 45kg
Cleans:
10 x 70kg (154lb)
10 x 80kg (176lb)
First set was power cleans; second set was squat cleans.
Nothing heavy but it was good to keep the wheels turning.
Fri 01/01/2010
2k Row:
7:56
This was my first completed 2k attempt. I aimed for a much easier pace of 2:00/500m but after the first km it got less than fun. I managed to pick up the pace a little at the end to just scrape under 8 mins by four seconds.
Lungs were toast!
Not much chance of knocking 1 min off my time in the few days left before I travel back home.
2k Row:
7:56
This was my first completed 2k attempt. I aimed for a much easier pace of 2:00/500m but after the first km it got less than fun. I managed to pick up the pace a little at the end to just scrape under 8 mins by four seconds.
Lungs were toast!
Not much chance of knocking 1 min off my time in the few days left before I travel back home.
Mon 04/01/2010
a.m. Concept 2 session on my pop's rower.
2k Row:
Failed attempt.
Set out to beat a 7 min time but burnt out during the second km. Kept to 1:44/500m pace the whole time but just ran out of lung power half way though the 2nd km. If I had managed that pace to the end I would have made a sub-seven-minute 2k time (~6:56).
1k Row:
Failed attempt.
After a rest, set out on a further 1k. I thought I would try going a little quicker and managed to keep to ~ 1:36/500m pace. With 230m to go my lungs were on fire and rather than push myself to the limit I decided to throw in the towel; slowing down just to finish up seems like such a cop out so I just stopped. If I had maintained my pace I would have made a 1k time of ~3:15.
So, didn't beat my brother's time... yet!
That was my last rowing session for a few weeks as I'm back home now. I thoroughly recommend to anyone that has an opportunity to use a C2 to do so. Awesome piece of kit.
I want to try some shorter distances on it next time I get to use it. A 200-500m sprint would be a great test of explosive power.
It's just possible I can use the rowers at my lad's school so I may be able to do the occasional session there - if I can get the time during school opening hours.
p.m.
Deads:
10 x 5 x 80kg
Light but all reps performed ballistically and with little rest between sets.
Croc Rows:
2 x 10 x 58½kg (129lb)
Sets performed by alternating from one arm to the next, with very little rest between them.
Dips:
30 x bw
15 x bw
11 x bw
Short rest between sets hence the drop in reps. Left shoulder has had a good rest and consequently didn't feel too bad.
Toes-to-bar:
10 x legs! RPE @ 10
Performed with legs slightly bent and with shoes on.
Abs are definitely down on strength after a long lay-off from any direct work.
a.m. Concept 2 session on my pop's rower.
2k Row:
Failed attempt.
Set out to beat a 7 min time but burnt out during the second km. Kept to 1:44/500m pace the whole time but just ran out of lung power half way though the 2nd km. If I had managed that pace to the end I would have made a sub-seven-minute 2k time (~6:56).
1k Row:
Failed attempt.
After a rest, set out on a further 1k. I thought I would try going a little quicker and managed to keep to ~ 1:36/500m pace. With 230m to go my lungs were on fire and rather than push myself to the limit I decided to throw in the towel; slowing down just to finish up seems like such a cop out so I just stopped. If I had maintained my pace I would have made a 1k time of ~3:15.
So, didn't beat my brother's time... yet!
That was my last rowing session for a few weeks as I'm back home now. I thoroughly recommend to anyone that has an opportunity to use a C2 to do so. Awesome piece of kit.
I want to try some shorter distances on it next time I get to use it. A 200-500m sprint would be a great test of explosive power.
It's just possible I can use the rowers at my lad's school so I may be able to do the occasional session there - if I can get the time during school opening hours.
p.m.
Deads:
10 x 5 x 80kg
Light but all reps performed ballistically and with little rest between sets.
Croc Rows:
2 x 10 x 58½kg (129lb)
Sets performed by alternating from one arm to the next, with very little rest between them.
Dips:
30 x bw
15 x bw
11 x bw
Short rest between sets hence the drop in reps. Left shoulder has had a good rest and consequently didn't feel too bad.
Toes-to-bar:
10 x legs! RPE @ 10
Performed with legs slightly bent and with shoes on.
Abs are definitely down on strength after a long lay-off from any direct work.
Tue 05/01/10
I'm still deciding on a program to get stuck into for the next few months. I want to include front squats if it feels ok to do so. I got on quite well with them in the past and they are useful assistance exercise for cleans. Didn't have much time tonight so a few sets of front squats seemed like a good idea.
Front Squat:
warmups
10 x 60kg
10 x 80kg (176lb) @ RPE 8
10 x 80kg (176lb) @ RPE 8.5
It felt good to finally be able to do these again without feeling uncomfortable 'down below'. Strength is down quite a bit, but that's to be expected. Rather than try to push the loads up again as quickly as possible, I may try pausing and see how that works out.
I'm still deciding on a program to get stuck into for the next few months. I want to include front squats if it feels ok to do so. I got on quite well with them in the past and they are useful assistance exercise for cleans. Didn't have much time tonight so a few sets of front squats seemed like a good idea.
Front Squat:
warmups
10 x 60kg
10 x 80kg (176lb) @ RPE 8
10 x 80kg (176lb) @ RPE 8.5
It felt good to finally be able to do these again without feeling uncomfortable 'down below'. Strength is down quite a bit, but that's to be expected. Rather than try to push the loads up again as quickly as possible, I may try pausing and see how that works out.
_tim
Well-Known Member
<div>
(Lol @ Dec. 27 2009,4:16)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Sun 27/12/09
Until I get hold of a Concept 2 rower I'm going to have a go at Sumo-Dead High-Pulls using a 20kg Oly bar: bar taken from mid-shin to under chin. I have been recommended to substitute 100 SDHPs per 1k on a rower. Tonight I decided to try 200 SDHPs as the equivalent of a 2k row.
Sumo Dead High Pull (SDHP):
200 x 20kg - 6 min 26 sec
Phew! Can't believe how hard that was. My lungs felt 'itchy' afterwards for about 15 mins. I actually thought I might be able to continue on to 500 SDHPs, the equivalent of a 5k row, but getting to 200 was plenty hard enough.</div>
I'm getting caught up on everyone's logs - and this really stood out as pure insanity. Incredible stuff, Lol.
(Lol @ Dec. 27 2009,4:16)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Sun 27/12/09
Until I get hold of a Concept 2 rower I'm going to have a go at Sumo-Dead High-Pulls using a 20kg Oly bar: bar taken from mid-shin to under chin. I have been recommended to substitute 100 SDHPs per 1k on a rower. Tonight I decided to try 200 SDHPs as the equivalent of a 2k row.
Sumo Dead High Pull (SDHP):
200 x 20kg - 6 min 26 sec
Phew! Can't believe how hard that was. My lungs felt 'itchy' afterwards for about 15 mins. I actually thought I might be able to continue on to 500 SDHPs, the equivalent of a 5k row, but getting to 200 was plenty hard enough.</div>
I'm getting caught up on everyone's logs - and this really stood out as pure insanity. Incredible stuff, Lol.