Madcow 5x5, Time to Go Super Saiyan! *screams for 20 minutes*

First workout since last Tuesday due to general busyness. Squatted 225lb for 3 without attempting to go to 4. Might have succeeded but I'm going to weight until Thursday when the power rack is present.

Did strict MP today. 120lb x 3, this time all the way down to the clavicle. Might consider that a PR since before I was only bringing it to my adam's apple. But I was banking on 5. Disappointing.

Didn't do back, but did a max set of deadhang pullups yesterday and got 13. Think I can get 15+ after greasing the groves with them since I haven't done them regularly in about a year.

E-Z Curls, bar + 70lb x 6 reps.
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Overall, very disappointing, but I think it's due to general fatigue from ****ty sleep the past week + a ton of yard work at my friend's house yesterday. If I had some coffee and had been in a better mindset, things could have gone well.

Tuesday, when I'm back at school, I'll be trying to do 275lb x 5 deadlift and 170lb x 5 bench. Thursday, gonna max out with 225lb squat until failure and see if I can't get 4 or 5 reps and test incline DB 5 rep max. Gonna start AlexAustralia's modified HST program after I SD (SD starting next week). Lifts I will use:
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A/B:

Squat/Deadlift

Barbell Bench/Incline Dumbbell Bench (Throwing incline in to replace military press and see if it can't boost my bench)

Weighted Pullups/Weighted Pullups

Curls/Curls/E-Z Bar Curl (since E-Z Bar is accessible only 1 day a week when I go to the YMCA).
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If any of you guys have input, feel free to comment.
 
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I think you'd see better results with more volume. One top set for each exercise is not much. I am not a fan of madcow program anyway. I think there are better variants of 5x5 than the one you've been doing.

The HST/SST variant that Alex decribed will probably do better for you. I like to get at least three top work sets in for the 5s. Of course as the loads go up, I drop to 2 sets, then when I go for PRs I drop to one top set.

In the past my best strength gains came from HST. high frequency, moderate volume, and of course ramping up the loads from light to heavy over several weeks us critical. (Periodization strength program).

Good luck.
 
Stats: 5'8", 166lb

Deadlift: 165lb x 5, 200lb x 3, 230lb x 3, 275lb x 5 (PR)

Bench Press: 125lb x 5, 145lb x 5, 170lb x 5 (PR + 5lb)

Dumbbell Curl: 45lb x 7, 45lb x 5
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Very happy. I used a ton of chalk for deadlift and grip felt absolutely fine. Rest time between reps was only 5-10 seconds. Felt very hard. I'm debating over trying 285lb x 5 next Tuesday to solidify my 5 rep max (if I go to failure with that). Lats feel absolutely fried.

Bench, I FINALLY PR'd. Last rep was insanely hard but I got it.

Curls remained the same and were done with the best form I could muster.

Overall, extremely pleased. Thursday I'll be doing max reps with 225lb squat and testing 5 rep max for incline DB bench press.
 
My right lat feels extremely sore but my left lat feels alright. Could this be due to mixed grip on my work set?

I pulled out the foam roller.
 
DOMS differences can be from any # of things. Could be the mixed grip (another thing about extra volume, you get to alternate the over-under across clusters/sets for more equality), could be driving home using one arm, could be the way you sit on the couch or being a tong-nazi on the grill at home using just one arm ...anything :p

Don't forget you need to eat for strength & size. They're positively related. It's not a direct, linear relationship, but it's absolutely connected and you can't get stronger without the size accompanying at some point. Whenever you see a small(er) but (apparently) disproportionately strong guy throwing a 120kg bench around, you don't realise they didn't grow in a millimetre by millimetre fashion. They bulked up (relatively) and then cut down/shed the fat.

As always, you have to eat in surplus to make the gains you want.
 
TangoDown said:
My right lat feels extremely sore but my left lat feels alright. Could this be due to mixed grip on my work set?

I pulled out the foam roller.
Click to expand...

That's my guess. I never feel sore in my lats from deadlifts, but I also use a hook grip overhand, mixed grip always felt weird abd imbalanced to me. Deads are all thighs, hips, erectors and traps, the "posterior chain".
Wide Pulldowns however are wrecking my lats in a good way! Highly recommend them now, wide grip, pull to sternum, arc back.
 
lol'd at tong-nazi

My hands are too small for hook grip.

Gonna be doing pullups. I've always done pullups and I enjoy them way more than rows. I'd probably end up cheating too much on pull downs. With pullups, unless you're kipping, your chin is either over the bar or it's not. :cool:
 
A/B:

Squat/Deadlift

Barbell Bench/Incline Dumbbell Bench (Throwing incline in to replace military press and see if it can't boost my bench)

Weighted Pullups/Weighted Pullups

Curls/Curls/E-Z Bar Curl (since I can't access E-Z Bar unless I'm at the YMCA)

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Tues: A, Thurs: B, Sat: A, Tues: B, and so on and so forth.

Get 12 reps. You think that's enough? Should I stick with 12 throughout the cycle?

Any more input?
 
I'm not really a fan of Incline DB Bench. Incline is the one press for which I would unequivocally perform with a BB, ~25-35 degrees above parallel.

I would pair Incline with Pullups, and Flat with DB or BB Row (Pendlay is obviously my preference for BB, but all that matters is that you're holding your back approximately parallel to the floor. I would likely pair Dips with Incline and disregard the Flat altogether. But Dips are not for everyone and take some getting used to. Not really useful if that's the case here, not yet anyway.

As I've stated ad nauseum on these forums, heavy curls/extensions are near-useless for arm growth. That's my $0.02, I'm sure there are millions who disagree. I would rather see shrugs or upright rows. Something to work those traps and forearms. If you really want to do a curl, I wouldn't bother doing anything less than 8 reps. 12-15RM is more useful IMO, get the high-rep response going, and you can do one block of pushups to your maximum count for high-repping the upper body press-chain.

Re: rep count - 12 is enough. There's going to be a few workouts during which you feel like God. The sleep, food, caffeine, hydration, creatine are all working today etc. Feel free to push it to 15 or so on those days. What's important is the progression and being able to realise when you just did 4,4,3,3 really good reps that next time you can raise it and it might only come out 3,3,2,2 but that's where you should be. The next one might go 4,3,3,2 etc etc.

But yeh, 12 is plenty. Remember to do a high-rep set, ballpark 15RM for your presses and pulls. I find that everyday walking around is enough 'high rep' work for the legs.
 
Unfortunately I do not have access to a barbell incline bench when I'm lifting at school gym. Why do you think DB incline is no good?

I'm not doing insanely heavy curling. Most of the time the rep range is about 10 anyway. I'll probably stick with pure load progression with curls as opposed to any myo stuff. I just like curling heavy things lol. Ego movement.

I hate rowing. I just have a tendency to cheat. But maybe for keeping the posterior delt in check, I should do it. Hargsfosdf :mad:.

I'm gonna stick with flat bench because I want to continue training it as per my power lifting goals. It did progress 5lb this cycle, so there's something to say there in terms of finally getting grip width correctly and that paying off.

Can you also explain the high rep set - the physiology behind it?
 
TangoDown said:
Unfortunately I do not have access to a barbell incline bench when I'm lifting at school gym. Why do you think DB incline is no good?

I'm not doing insanely heavy curling. Most of the time the rep range is about 10 anyway. I'll probably stick with pure load progression with curls as opposed to any myo stuff. I just like curling heavy things lol. Ego movement.

I hate rowing. I just have a tendency to cheat. But maybe for keeping the posterior delt in check, I should do it. Hargsfosdf :mad:.

I'm gonna stick with flat bench because I want to continue training it as per my power lifting goals. It did progress 5lb this cycle, so there's something to say there in terms of finally getting grip width correctly and that paying off.

Can you also explain the high rep set - the physiology behind it?
Click to expand...

I don't think DB Incline is no good, I think that BB Incline has basically no leverage issues (unlike a Flat Bench, for instance) and tends to be body-friendly. Dips can be murder for some folks, Flat bench is not good for anyone with proportionately long arms (this is all relative of course, that doesn't mean it's useless - obviously it's perfectly 'adequate'). The leverages, angle of force, position and rotation of shoulder - they just make a properly-raised (25-35degrees) incline BB a really nice press. Nothing wrong with DB, you just get some extra weight on the BB.

It's fine to cheat a little on rows. The weight ain't raising itself. DB, BB ... whichever. The alternative I suppose is doing a CG pullup on the alternate, and pulling the handle to your ribcage. You want to hit those middle traps beyond just a pull.

5lbs is all well and good but I think you're capable of far greater increases than that.

High-rep: essentially there's two kinds of growth that can occur, sarcomere and sarcoplasm (keeping it simple). Sheer load induces growth in terms of protein synthesis, 'metabolic' work induces an increase and optimisation in glycogen storage within the muscle. Glycogen brings a bunch of water with it. The result? That big, 'full' or 'bursting' look (as opposed to 'flat' - when we're spent, we look this way. Big yet 'floppy' almost). Again, this is all keeping it simple, but low rep, high load work makes your body increase protein synthesis and build the literal muscle, high-rep, low(er) load work makes it store more glycogen in the muscle to fuel what it perceives to be future high-rep work. Think of a marathon runner, cyclist, 1500m swimmer. They're doing infi high-rep, low load work. The fuel for that comes from glycogen storage, body fat and at some point muscle catabolism. We, as lifters, aren't doing anywhere near enough exercise consecutively to start catabolising our muscle, but high-rep work will add some size and better optimisation of your nutrient partitioning, as well as giving you more glycogen in your muscles for the next time you lift. That glycogen helps them lift ofc.
 
Fair enough. As per the high rep set, should it always be my 15RM or can it be a bit higher (obviously not too high to cause the load to be completely ineffective)? Should I test my 15RM or should I just estimate based on percentage? Should it also climb throughout the cycle depending on if I can push out another rep with that weight? And should the high rep set be done for deadlift and squat? Because high reps + deadlift or squat AFTER a heavy 12-rep myo-set sounds like a CNS destroyer.

I suppose I can alternate pullups with my somewhat-cheating Pendlay row. As per incline bench, it's gonna have to be with DBs unless I start lifting at the YMCA 3 times a week as opposed to once a week. That might actually start happening in a couple of months.
 
1. Clustering is not myo-repping. Myo-reps are far different, using a different load and different protocol.

2. Ballpark 15RM. Higher rep count might hit the CNS a bit hard, it's about creating a brief low-oxygen state in the muscle. Just guestimation is fine. No need to raise it for the sake of it. If it isn't making you feel exhausted afterward then it might be a bit light. The last rep should be a smidgen before failure, so to speak.

3. High rep for upper body press and upper body pull. No need for lower body and deadlifts sounds like murder after 12 clustered reps in the 3-5RM range.

4. Make sure you eat. And then eat. Then sleep. And eat some more when you're done sleeping. Repeat.
 
Squat: 165lb x 5, 190lb x 3, 225lb x 2 (3rd rep failed)

Incline Dumbbell Bench Press: 40lb DBs x 5, 50lb DBs x 5, 60lb DBs x 3 (4th rep failed)

Dumbbell Curl: 40lb x 5
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Got 5 hours of sleep at the most last night. Horrible. Felt nauseous all day. Drank mondo caffeine and decided to push through the workout. Was expecting 225lb squat for 4 since I felt one more rep in the tank last session. Got 2 and failed 3 at the bottom of the lift. Chock that up to feeling like ****. Probably a lot of cortisol in my system.

Did Incline DB press for the first time to test my max. DBs felt unruly, but that's to be expected considering I haven't done anything with DBs (besides curls) in over a year, and have never really done any incline movement before. I could tell my CNS was like "wtf" because 50s felt easy when I got them up but they were very shaky. Same with 60s, and that's why I only got 3. I'm expecting a big jump when I start doing the lift regularly. Back when I transitioned from 1 arm DB floor press (only thing I could do at home) to DB bench press, my 15 rep max shot from 45lb DBs (10lb below my 15 rep max) to 62.5lb DBs in the course of one HST cycle (actually only a few sessions). That adds validity to my inference (I hope).

Gonna go in on Tuesday and either attempt 285lb x 5 on deadlift or just try to pull a 1 rep max for my ego's sake. I figure knowing my exact 5 rep max numbers doesn't really matter at this point seeing as I'll be feeling all that out during the course of the clustering program I'll be doing next cycle. But we'll see.

After Tuesday, I'll be SDing. Since I haven't SD'd in 2 cycles, should I take 14 days or can I stick to like 9 or 10?
 
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