Max OT to HST - Some Advice please

Thanks again for the feedback...

With the chins, I have never been able to do many reps on these. However, I can curl some serious weight. Go figure... So you are saying that chins will grow arms the fastest? Chins work back as well, so would that be enough for back and I can do away with 1-arm rows?

With my chest, I get what you are saying for sure. But when you look at my chest, my pecs really sit out with a deep crevice in the middle. I feel that I need to ease up on the chest still.

My wife and friends are all commenting on my size now, so I must have grown a fair bit in the upper body. I am stretching some very large shirts now due to my back and chest girth.

I have read up a lot on HST and love the program. It works for absolute sure! It can become tricky when you want to ease up on certain parts and then hammer out on lagging parts.

Thanks.
 
In my experience (personal, observations, guys I know from the Army and a few pro sports teams etc), supinated chins and underhand grip BB rows are the best two exercises for bicep growth. Curls are good for causing a metabolic response (ala making the arms work hard and getting the 'pump'), which assists in shuttling carbs into them as glycogen.

I periodically alternate b/t chins/pull ups and rows (BB or DB). If you can manage a really heavy DB row, say 3RM I think you'll find some good response on your biceps but no-BS here, it will tax your lower back. BB Rows are likewise good and it's easier to manage the lift with an underhand grip. I know Lyle McD prefers the underhand grip due to better biceps innervation.

As far as curls go, whenever I do them it's 1-2 sets of my 15 RM using DB's, at the end of my workout. Gets the blood pumping, metabolic work too.


I suppose an ancillary issue is that extremely heavy curls are going to be murder on your joints and tendons (not sure what the specific name for 'biceps tendons' are).


And remember, arms can be massive (17") but look smaller due to genetic shape and bf %. My arms are about 16.25-.5 atm, but they don't look anything like it. My tri's are more impressive than my biceps by far and my bf% is (relatively) high for me atm so if you compared me to someone with 15" and 6-10%, you'd think theirs look bigger.
 
Ok, I am willing to give the 1-arm underhand grip dumbbell rows a try on my next cycle. So how would this sound... 2 sets of underhand rows and 1 set of curls? I am feeling that I would be working back with the underhand rows, so I should not need to double up anymore back work. Is this correct?

There seems to be two schools of thought isolation exercises and compounds. I am wondering with shoulders if I should do 2 sets of military presses and 1 set of side lat raises?

Chest I will lessen up the training weight and frequency.

This is another age old question... Can bicep peak be influenced by training method? My initial thought is no, but so many (including Arnold) says yes.

Thanks.
 
Arnold's career was steroid driven. It's hard to take note of anything he says beyond 'lift eat repeat'. You cannot alter genetics by lifting weights. Similarly, you cannot train 'part' of a muscle fibre (nor part of a muscle), despite what the CNS tells us is being most 'felt'.

Rows are plenty for the back.

Arnold's peak was exceptional, and it can be seen developing over some 25yrs of photos.

Military Press is a great shoulders exercise. I have a personal preference for DB Press, it just works in a better 'groove' for me, but I think either is perfectly fine. If you want to work on your middle/outer delts then do some standing upright rows. Hits the front as well a little and obviously works the upper traps too. I've always found them preferable to lateral raises for muscle growth, you're just moving a much heavier weight. They can be wearing on the wrists though and I try to use the curled bar if available.
 
So underhanded 1-arm rows will work biceps and back in one movement? I am happy to give these a try. There is a little concern about how Dorian Yates tore his bicep though.

I think my size overall is pretty good. I would dare say that I am closing in on 215lbs now. It is a bit hard to remember all those years ago, but I would say that a trim slender me without decent muscle would have weighed about 185lbs (approximately). I reflect on that just to give an idea of the mix of muscle (and body fat) I have put on. I feel that my body fat is not too bad. I can just barely make out my abs (just barely). I will start trimming down maybe after my next cycle.

My home gym is pretty basic set of free weights and a bench.

I agree about the military press. I do these one handed at a time (mostly for safety reasons).

At the moment I am stuck doing tricep kickbacks due to tennis elbow when doing skull crushers with the bar.

Thanks.
 
Well Dorian Yates was prob. doing it w/an absurdly heavy steroid-powered weight, the issue being that his connective tissue didn't get the same boost as his muscles. I mean, pick a body part and it's been injured one way or another, right? :p
 
IMO there is no need for a overhead pressing movement. Dips, when done correctly, train all 3 heads of the deltoid sufficiently. Many upper-body muscles work to stabilize the position.
Elbows flaring out like in overhead press is risky for rotator cuffs.
 
I have now started my week of "SD". I feel that my body needs it. The past two weeks of 5's at my max has been tough. Forearms and wrists sore and I feel worn out. I am actually looking forward to starting the next cycle after a much needed break.

My first cycle has been a real education to me and I have grown a lot. My chest is out of control with growth (that combined with back). My shoulders have really come up a notch too in the last couple of weeks. My weight is now approx. 215lbs, so I feel that I have put on nearly 6-8 lbs. I am watching to not put on too much body fat while gaining muscle.

I feel that I am about near what I want to be overall size wise. If anything, I kind of need to taper chest growth out. I just need to bring arms up about 1 more inch to balance things out.

My next cycle will have a main focus on arms, shoulders and calves.

Thanks to all those that have posted, I have learned much.
 
I’m glad to hear HST is working out for you. I had great success early on but then my gains stopped. I now know it was because my testosterone level crashed but in the meantime I switched over to powerlifting and am enjoining the more immediate feedback of increasing my maxes regularly as opposed to taking measurements at the end of every cycle. Plus I’m still incorporating HST principles in my Repetition lifts and making muscle gains too.
 
great. congrats on the gainnnnnnnnnnz.

Regarding the comments on exercise. 3 points here:

1. I seems that people with long limbs need more isolation work than short limbed dudes.
2. Technique on Rows and back: Well pulling with "elbows" not arms. Contracting back. All this is cruical. If not you got a great bizeps builder. If thats the case. Try some prone trap raises. You´ll feef your upper back working.
3.If one muscle group is lagging. Try to up the volume,or better IME include on iso exercise.

...I personally need arm work. I am long limbed and started with 28cm worm arms. Best was 40cm. Without isos:no chance.

Your bodyparts will grow with compounds no doubt. But some might grow with isos faster.
 
Thanks for the replies!

I plan on incorporating 1 or maybe two sets of chin ups in my next cycle for biceps. I can only squeeze out about 5 or 6 at the moment, so I am not sure if I should introduce these in the 15's and 10's with rest pauses? What do you guys think?

With my arms, I am planning to hedge my bets a little and do some chin ups along with some isolation exercises. Next cycle I plan to really focus hard on them. My chest, shoulder and back are all rather large now.Arms need to come up.

My arms are at 15-1/2" last measurements. I want to get just over 16" and I think that will be good enough for me. It looks like my genetic potential for arms is around 17.7", according to the calculator.

Thanks
 
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i wouldn´t do that. You will start chins with your 5RPM becasue you just get 5. Thats too heavy.

The problem is on chins ups,that they are body weight dependent. You can´t cut your legs off for a proper deload/ramp up.

2 things here:
1. If you have a assisted pull up machine you can use this one. You check out our 15 10 and 5RPM and plan your cycle.
If you are one day strong enough you can switch to bodyweight pull up/chin ups.
2. Just use the pulldown "machine". The weight stays always the same here and allows standardization.

No programm will be perfect. You always have to balance things outand keep your goal in mind.
 
Thanks.

I workout in a home gym in my garage with free weights, so equipment is limited. So basically I need to put off the pull ups off until the 5 rep maxes? I guess that leaves curls or maybe those 1-arm underhand rows?
 
If your home gym is in your garage or someplace you don’t mind mounting something to the ceiling a quick trip to the hardware store and you should be able to make a homemade Lat Pull station that uses the weight plates you already have. Just a thought.
 
Well you could also try to bring a chair under your feet to assists yourself. Some do this also with bands:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlNDaeZI3A0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFtE27GzTTk

I personally don´t like that. I am a controll and planning freak. And also planning with bands and chairs is really just guess work. I don´t like that all. But for some its sufficient.

There might be another option for you though:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvnPT-Muoec&feature=related

You could start with supinated grip with those. 'These mimic the chin up best. Of course its more a row but at least its a closed chain exercise.

Otherwise for "lats" you could do as you mentioned underhand rows.

BTW because you moan about your 15 inch arms:
I started with 11 inches "guns" the biggest they have gotten was 16 inches. But I was quite satisfied with it becuase i never dreamed of getting so far. I always need direct arm work to let them grow. Of course its possible to let them grow with compounds only-but it will last longer IMO and IMExperience.
Also don´t forget that the tric make the biggest part of your arm.

What I always had good sucess with was a hammer curl variation (with hammer grip I never got wrist issues) and close gripped upright dips. Scullcrusher and pushdowns always hurt my elbows when increasing the weight.
The dips also started to hurt my shoulder though so I replaced them with close (r) grip benches.
 
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I have a set of plans to construct a frame with pulleys that will allow me to work lats and triceps. It is a matter of saving some money for the materials and then the time to do it. One thing that deters me from building this is that my lats get plenty of action from 1-arm rows with dumbbells. I can really stretch and work that muscle well on that exercise. I have had various gym memberships and used various machines and weights. 1-arm rows really work well for me and I also find that chin-ups work the upper lats for me too. Maybe the underhand rows will increase my strength for chin ups also?

Thanks for the video links on the pull ups. I see the merit in those, but am wondering if I am going to guess too much also with the resistance. I am on my "SD" week now, so am trying to come up with a game plan for the biceps. If chin ups are not recommended for the 15's and 10's, I guess that leaves them for the 5's when I am doing the max reps? So I am thinking of giving those underhand grip rows a try this cycle with the dumbbells (I am thinking I can work back in this same exercise also and do away with any other direct back work as I am pretty happy with my back). I can really load these up a lot for each arm. I will keep going with the ez curl bar or dumbbell curls as a finisher.

With triceps, I get bad tennis elbow with skull crushers. I have stuck with tricep extensions this last cycle, but feel these are not the best choice. Cannot do dips due to not having the equipment and my wrists can hurt. I have never done close grip benches, so will give that a go this time around.

What do you guys think?

Thanks.
 
I would probably construct a frame for chins/pull ups before a pulley system for lat pulldowns. For 15s and 10s, just do the rows. They're very similar exercises and Rows are v.well suited to the high-rep counts.

Remember not to over-analyse every little detail :)
 
AlexAustralia said:
I would probably construct a frame for chins/pull ups before a pulley system for lat pulldowns. For 15s and 10s, just do the rows. They're very similar exercises and Rows are v.well suited to the high-rep counts.

Remember not to over-analyse every little detail :)
Click to expand...

correct.

Just choose a bizeps movement you enjoy and stick to it on the cycle.

So when goin for close grip benches take a look at that:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/more-on-bench-pressing.html

really concentrate on pushing with the triceps. during the 15´s you will have enough time for that without goin too heavy first.

Another option. JM Press:
http://articles.elitefts.com/training-articles/one-movement-jm-press/

Now men up and hit the gym.
 
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Awesome! Thanks guys. I think I am all dialed in for the next cycle. Thanks for all your suggestions. It has been greatly appreciated.
 
I am rather disappointed this HST cycle. I just do not seem to be making the progress that I was making last cycle. I have kept with the compound movements (squats, 1-arm reverse grip rows, military presses, 1-arm narrow grip bench and calf raises). I believe I am eating enough as I have noticed an increase in body fat. My diet is good and mostly consists of wholesome foods with a lot of chicken, cottage cheese, whey, salads, almonds etc. I eat 6 meals a day too.

This week I finished my two weeks of 8's (My ranges are 12, 8 and 5).

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks.
 
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