Max-Stim questions
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beingisbeing
New Member
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(Dan Moore @ Jun. 18 2008,9:00)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Primarily the fatigue is metabolic in nature.</div>
I see. I guess I did read that:
"It has long been realized that the metabolic cost of muscle activation is a primary factor in fatigue (45), not necessarily the only factor..."
I missed the word primary
Without opening up a can of worms that I shall save for another thread...
I don't like barbell exercises (shoulder/chest presses) as they tend to tweak the hell out of my anterior deltoids. But doing max stim with DB presses seems crazy, as kneeing up the weight 20 X seems a cross between inordinately energy consuming/dangerous...
I guess what I'm saying is, how do you feel about using machines in this case (shoulder and chest presses) for the max-stim method...or in general? I'm talking the cool snazzy ones with independent hands, real natural arc of movement, etc?
(Dan Moore @ Jun. 18 2008,9:00)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Primarily the fatigue is metabolic in nature.</div>
I see. I guess I did read that:
"It has long been realized that the metabolic cost of muscle activation is a primary factor in fatigue (45), not necessarily the only factor..."
I missed the word primary
Without opening up a can of worms that I shall save for another thread...
I don't like barbell exercises (shoulder/chest presses) as they tend to tweak the hell out of my anterior deltoids. But doing max stim with DB presses seems crazy, as kneeing up the weight 20 X seems a cross between inordinately energy consuming/dangerous...
I guess what I'm saying is, how do you feel about using machines in this case (shoulder and chest presses) for the max-stim method...or in general? I'm talking the cool snazzy ones with independent hands, real natural arc of movement, etc?
I am still strugling through my first maxstim cycle. BAD news. Usually I do clusters (set of 2-5 reps as long as I don't reach failure), to save time. Smaller exercises seem a breeze. Like DB presses, I am amussed to do them. BUT...............
Some problems:
1) I never felt so UNmotivated to go to the gym.
2) DL volume.During HST, I would reduce reps as necessary, as the weights increased. I think 20 reps with my 10RM or 8RM in DL is too much for me.
3) SQ. When SQ gets heavy, it takes me about 1 minute per rep (unrack, rep, rack, rest). If I spend 20 minutes on SQ, then I feel exhausted. Difficult to complete the rest of the wo.
4) M-Time. Yesterday I did a back-down with weights. I used 90% of my 8RM. I did 10 sets of 2 reps (20 reps total) for DL. Total time was 7 minutes and 15 seconds. I was breathing rather heavy after the 14th rep but I finished the 20 reps without getting exhausted. Still, if I had followed the M-time, I should have done no more than 4-5 minutes.
I am not sleeping that good (but the same thing happened during HST). I try to cut on food on the off days. So the only real result I had was to loose BodyFat. I feel my strength to be down.
Some problems:
1) I never felt so UNmotivated to go to the gym.
2) DL volume.During HST, I would reduce reps as necessary, as the weights increased. I think 20 reps with my 10RM or 8RM in DL is too much for me.
3) SQ. When SQ gets heavy, it takes me about 1 minute per rep (unrack, rep, rack, rest). If I spend 20 minutes on SQ, then I feel exhausted. Difficult to complete the rest of the wo.
4) M-Time. Yesterday I did a back-down with weights. I used 90% of my 8RM. I did 10 sets of 2 reps (20 reps total) for DL. Total time was 7 minutes and 15 seconds. I was breathing rather heavy after the 14th rep but I finished the 20 reps without getting exhausted. Still, if I had followed the M-time, I should have done no more than 4-5 minutes.
I am not sleeping that good (but the same thing happened during HST). I try to cut on food on the off days. So the only real result I had was to loose BodyFat. I feel my strength to be down.
beingisbeing
New Member
I concur about the boring as hell.
However, I swear my biceps are growing, or at least getting stronger after a long plateau that nothing seemed to break...and I'm cutting
I'm specifically only using max stim for shoulders and biceps right now, as I am in my 5s, to see what happens compared to the rest of the body. no its not a controlled experiment, but I think it'll yield insight.
I don't think I could ever do the whole body or all of my workout just because of boredom (counting Mississippi sucks)
But I think the method is brilliant, well constructed, well argued , and probably works like a mofo
However, I swear my biceps are growing, or at least getting stronger after a long plateau that nothing seemed to break...and I'm cutting
I'm specifically only using max stim for shoulders and biceps right now, as I am in my 5s, to see what happens compared to the rest of the body. no its not a controlled experiment, but I think it'll yield insight.
I don't think I could ever do the whole body or all of my workout just because of boredom (counting Mississippi sucks)
But I think the method is brilliant, well constructed, well argued , and probably works like a mofo
I don't think it is boredom. Psychologically it feels more like overtraining. I have a feeling I will not be a ble to finish the heavy exercises (SQ, DL). When I was doing HST, I felt more excited and always made new PRs at the end of the 15s.
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(quadancer @ Jun. 19 2008,10:41)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">You're sounding ..... low test. </div>
Sorry. What do you mean here? Low testosterone? Well, by lifting weights it should be high.
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(quadancer @ Jun. 19 2008,10:41)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">You're sounding ..... low test. </div>
Sorry. What do you mean here? Low testosterone? Well, by lifting weights it should be high.
BenReffell
New Member
If anyone wants to look at the maxstimulation.pdf immediately you can still view it in HTML format from Googles cache (as of today 21 June 08, don't know how long this will last though) by going to Google,
click: advanced search,
searching for: maxstimulation
choose file type: pdf.
Then clcik on : view as HTML
Note: if there were any pictures, graphs etc this will not show up, but all text will. You can then copy the text into Word etc. to save permanently.
click: advanced search,
searching for: maxstimulation
choose file type: pdf.
Then clcik on : view as HTML
Note: if there were any pictures, graphs etc this will not show up, but all text will. You can then copy the text into Word etc. to save permanently.
BenReffell
New Member
doh!!! Just found the full pdf version available for download here
http://anabolicminds.com/forum....xt.html
It does contain graphs etc, so at least I should now be able to plan my maxstim weeks in time for Monday's training session. Also should save Quad & Dan some time & bandwidth instead of emailing to all of us who are new to HST/maxstim training.
http://anabolicminds.com/forum....xt.html
It does contain graphs etc, so at least I should now be able to plan my maxstim weeks in time for Monday's training session. Also should save Quad & Dan some time & bandwidth instead of emailing to all of us who are new to HST/maxstim training.
Simple Spreadsheet for a two way split (mon upper, tues lower, thurs upper, fri lower) or however you wish to split it.
After DL/ing change name to maxstimlog.xls (saved and uploaded as .txt because IB will not upload excel files)
Or change to whatever you wish, just be sure to use the .xls
Enter your exercises in the blue spaces
Enter your 1RM in the red box. THe math will then give you your starting weight. Do this for each exercsie and enter them in the yellow boxes. The spreadsheet will then list the weights used for each workout.
Modify however you wish.
After DL/ing change name to maxstimlog.xls (saved and uploaded as .txt because IB will not upload excel files)
Or change to whatever you wish, just be sure to use the .xls
Enter your exercises in the blue spaces
Enter your 1RM in the red box. THe math will then give you your starting weight. Do this for each exercsie and enter them in the yellow boxes. The spreadsheet will then list the weights used for each workout.
Modify however you wish.
TunnelRat
Active Member
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(Dan Moore @ Jun. 22 2008,9:23)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Simple Spreadsheet for a two way split (mon upper, tues lower, thurs upper, fri lower) or however you wish to split it.</div>
Hmmm, that is different (and more simple) than the one I originally got from the Max-Stim website. I'll try 'em both.
(Dan Moore @ Jun. 22 2008,9:23)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Simple Spreadsheet for a two way split (mon upper, tues lower, thurs upper, fri lower) or however you wish to split it.</div>
Hmmm, that is different (and more simple) than the one I originally got from the Max-Stim website. I'll try 'em both.
Hey Dan, Do you personaly think this 2 way split to be more supperior to the full body 3 x week. I did feel I was possibly overtraining with this split, particularly with max weights. I am keen to give this 2 way split a try after I finish my current DC routine and SD. By the way, I decided to do a DC cycle (for a change of pace from HST) however, without going to failure as previosley I burnt out quite early going to failure all the time. I feel I am getting pretty good results so far, but I realise the cycle will be short due to the intensity.
Your thoughts on this would be much appreciate.
Thanks
Brian
Your thoughts on this would be much appreciate.
Thanks
Brian
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(bigbri @ Jun. 29 2008,8:35)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Hey Dan, Do you personaly think this 2 way split to be more supperior to the full body 3 x week. I did feel I was possibly overtraining with this split, particularly with max weights. I am keen to give this 2 way split a try after I finish my current DC routine and SD. By the way, I decided to do a DC cycle (for a change of pace from HST) however, without going to failure as previosley I burnt out quite early going to failure all the time. I feel I am getting pretty good results so far, but I realise the cycle will be short due to the intensity.
Your thoughts on this would be much appreciate.
Thanks
Brian</div>
IF you can do 3X week then go for it but I feel that hitting each body part 2X is just as effective if volume is managed accordingly.
That spreadsheet in essence has you hitting each part 4X week if I recall and for some this may be fine but as you mention when the loads get real heavy it's hard to hit it that often, so going to 3X or even 2X may be the ticket.
(bigbri @ Jun. 29 2008,8:35)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Hey Dan, Do you personaly think this 2 way split to be more supperior to the full body 3 x week. I did feel I was possibly overtraining with this split, particularly with max weights. I am keen to give this 2 way split a try after I finish my current DC routine and SD. By the way, I decided to do a DC cycle (for a change of pace from HST) however, without going to failure as previosley I burnt out quite early going to failure all the time. I feel I am getting pretty good results so far, but I realise the cycle will be short due to the intensity.
Your thoughts on this would be much appreciate.
Thanks
Brian</div>
IF you can do 3X week then go for it but I feel that hitting each body part 2X is just as effective if volume is managed accordingly.
That spreadsheet in essence has you hitting each part 4X week if I recall and for some this may be fine but as you mention when the loads get real heavy it's hard to hit it that often, so going to 3X or even 2X may be the ticket.
overfiftylifter
New Member
I've been experimenting with Max Stim.. If I understand the application it is to prevent cumlative fatigue to get a greater total workload and hasten overall recovery by putting pauses between reps. I am not so certain if we are to pursue failure with the work weight or based on the information that I've read, if failure is necessary for hypertrophy. I am more interested in muscular over strength development. Are we to prevent muscular "burn" and stop the reps at some point when the burn cannot be avoided? Some guidance would be helpful.
Thank you
Overfiftylifter
Thank you
Overfiftylifter
TunnelRat
Active Member
I've been experimenting with Max Stim..
Me, too. I find it to be very helpful.
If I understand the application it is to prevent cumlative fatigue to get a greater total workload and hasten overall recovery by putting pauses between reps.
M-time is a planned pause between reps.
I am not so certain if we are to pursue failure with the work weight
No, do not go to failure. It takes your CNS much more time to recover when you go to failure.
or based on the information that I've read, if failure is necessary for hypertrophy.
I am no labcoat, however, based on some things I have read here and on the old Max-Site, there is apparently an embarrassing lack of evidence that failure -- or even fatigue! -- is necessary for hypertrophy.
Overfiftylifter
Over fifty, huh? You young guys are my encouragement.
Me, too. I find it to be very helpful.
If I understand the application it is to prevent cumlative fatigue to get a greater total workload and hasten overall recovery by putting pauses between reps.
M-time is a planned pause between reps.
I am not so certain if we are to pursue failure with the work weight
No, do not go to failure. It takes your CNS much more time to recover when you go to failure.
or based on the information that I've read, if failure is necessary for hypertrophy.
I am no labcoat, however, based on some things I have read here and on the old Max-Site, there is apparently an embarrassing lack of evidence that failure -- or even fatigue! -- is necessary for hypertrophy.
Overfiftylifter
Over fifty, huh? You young guys are my encouragement.
overfiftylifter
New Member
I was wondering if Mr. Moore could respond to my previous question? With your further experiences with Max-Stim, have you come up with more conclusions/ideas on its use?
I'm experimenting with a 3-5 sec. rest between reps and using 25 reps(stopping when burning becomes strong). When 25 reps can be performed without burn, the weight is then increased. I'm doing 3-4 whole body workouts a week. I am using a little higher rep range due to senior orthopedic problems. Does this approach make sense Mr. Moore, based on your readings/experience?
Thank you for your time,
Overfiftylifter
I'm experimenting with a 3-5 sec. rest between reps and using 25 reps(stopping when burning becomes strong). When 25 reps can be performed without burn, the weight is then increased. I'm doing 3-4 whole body workouts a week. I am using a little higher rep range due to senior orthopedic problems. Does this approach make sense Mr. Moore, based on your readings/experience?
Thank you for your time,
Overfiftylifter
overfiftylifter
New Member
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(mikeynov @ Aug. 18 2008,5:49)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Just as a suggestion, if Bryan wouldn't mind, I think a max-stim forum here would be an outstanding idea.</div>
I second the motion.
(mikeynov @ Aug. 18 2008,5:49)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Just as a suggestion, if Bryan wouldn't mind, I think a max-stim forum here would be an outstanding idea.</div>
I second the motion.
I'll give it a shot ....
The goal of Max Stim is probably more accurately described as delaying fatigue ... I don't think it is possible for it not to accumulate unless you take an endless amount of time between reps. You will eventually experience some fatigue and burn, but it is a bit different than you have ever experienced with consecutive reps. Failure is not the goal. Just do the reps as laid out in the write up and accept whatever you feel in the muscle. If you get up to using heavy enough weight you might eventually hit failure and it won't be the end of the world, but it is not what you are seeking. Delaying fatigue will allow you to get more reps with more load than you would have ordinarily have achieved, and that will hopefully be the stimulus for hypertrophy.
BTW, I'm not Dan, and I don't even play him on TV.
The goal of Max Stim is probably more accurately described as delaying fatigue ... I don't think it is possible for it not to accumulate unless you take an endless amount of time between reps. You will eventually experience some fatigue and burn, but it is a bit different than you have ever experienced with consecutive reps. Failure is not the goal. Just do the reps as laid out in the write up and accept whatever you feel in the muscle. If you get up to using heavy enough weight you might eventually hit failure and it won't be the end of the world, but it is not what you are seeking. Delaying fatigue will allow you to get more reps with more load than you would have ordinarily have achieved, and that will hopefully be the stimulus for hypertrophy.
BTW, I'm not Dan, and I don't even play him on TV.