milk??

S

Slapshotz

New Member
okay, this is way off topic, but it's a question I can't really ask a doc, because many of them are clueless.

My 18-month old son drinks a tremendous amount of milk, and he gets horrible congestion from it. I wanted to switch him to soy milk, but then I read that that messes with the development of t-levels. Not good.

As a last resort, I thought about maybe using goat's milk, but I've never tried it myself, and just the name alone gives me the willies.

So, it's definite that I have to take dairy out of this kid's diet, but I'm at a bit of a loss as to what to replace it with.....
 
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(scientific muscle @ Apr. 09 2007,19:08)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">How are you certain that milk is the cause of his congestion?   Just wondering.</div>
Honestly, sci, it's not 100% certain.  I just know that when he doesn't have dairy products, his cough goes away, his nose stops running, and the inside of his nostrils don't look like a construction site
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.  

I'm making a gut decision based on my own experiences with dairy, really.  From what I read, I know that dairy does indeed thicken the mucous, and makes you more prone to ear/sinus infections.

But then again, I don't want to create a 16-year old androgenous kid with man boobs because the soy crushed his t-levels.

Any ideas?
 
Less milk, more steak?
Milk definitely has an effect on mucous membranes; you shouldn't drink it when sick. It sounds like Billy (wasn't that his name?) has a sensitivity to it. And that could also be just a passing phase, but I don't know.
 
Milk consumption does not lead to mucus production or occurrence of asthma.Wuthrich B, Schmid A, Walther B, Sieber R.
Allergy Unit, Department of Dermatology, University Hospital, Zurich, Switzerland.

There is a belief among some members of the public that the consumption of milk and dairy products increases the production of mucus in the respiratory system. Therefore, some who believe in this effect renounce drinking milk. According to Australian studies, subjects perceived some parameters of mucus production to change after consumption of milk and soy-based beverages, but these effects were not specific to cows' milk because the soy-based milk drink with similar sensory characteristics produced the same changes. In individuals inoculated with the common cold virus, milk intake was not associated with increased nasal secretions, symptoms of cough, nose symptoms or congestion. Nevertheless, individuals who believe in the mucus and milk theory report more respiratory symptoms after drinking milk. In some types of alternative medicine, people with bronchial asthma, a chronic inflammatory disease of the lower respiratory tract, are advised not to eat so-called mucus-forming foods, especially all kinds of dairy products. According to different investigations the consumption of milk does not seem to exacerbate the symptoms of asthma and a relationship between milk consumption and the occurrence of asthma cannot be established. However, there are a few cases documented in which people with a cow's milk allergy presented with asthma-like symptoms.
 
Regardless of whether milk is mucous-forming in general, it is still possible that he has some allergy.  You wrote he drinks a tremendous amount of milk -- does it help to simply cut back how much he drinks?

Despite what T-Nation says about it, there remains some controversy about whether soy has the adverse affects sometimes ascribed to it. The studies are conflicting (what else is new?). Some soy is definitely beneficial in adults. However, for kids I think I would agree that, at the very least, you should avoid making it his main protein source. Your avoidance route may even be prudent.
 
Need more info- post his workout and how many cycles he's done...
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In all seriousness though , I was apparently born with milk allergies and according to my adoption info was fed a meat based formula concoction as an infant (I'm imagining some form of puree), of course this would have been late 60's and I'm not sure if they still do/recommend this - but it worked well for me I was a healthy kid with strong constitution and by the time I was three I was drinking milk with a vengeance ; so either I was misdiagnosed or the allergy was not permanent.

Like I said I'm not sure if they still do this or consider it a viable alternative for infants with milk allergies but it might be worth discusing with your pediatritian .
 
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(Slapshotz @ Apr. 09 2007,19:02)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">okay, this is way off topic, but it's a question I can't really ask a doc, because many of them are clueless.</div>
And yet, you`d be surprised how helpful professional help can be in this type of situations. I know it`s kindof trendy to rag on the medical community because they don`t reccomend enough protein for bbers and stuff, but it`s kindof a stretch to say that they`re clueless. Are some MDs retards?Well, sure, but that doesn`t say anything about MDs in general.
 
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(Ruthenian @ Apr. 10 2007,16:46)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Regardless of whether milk is mucous-forming in general, it is still possible that he has some allergy.</div>
allergies are a very specific thing, and generally you know about them becuase if you mess with them, you end up dead.

Intolerance is what you are thinking of (and not lactose intolerance)
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Need more info- post his workout and how many cycles he's done...</div>

lol!

Seriously, guys, thanks for the info. The bottom line, the studies are conflicting on whether milk does indeed thicken the mucuous, and the studies also conflict on the risks/benefits of soy. The meat-based formula I have not heard of, and will look into that.

I can only go by what happens to him when he doesn't drink milk. He's a lot healthier, and has less nasal/sinus/ear issues....but he's also missing out on some important brain food. Maybe q-dood is right....time to start some red meat!

And I don't mean to suggest that all docs are clueless, but unfortunately, most of the ones I see know very little about nutrition.

For now, I'll look into the alternatives, and give him more eggs.
 
Slapshotz,

My 7 year old is exactly the same way.  Studies or no studies, I'm absolutely positive that milk makes him congested if he drinks too much of it.  About one glass a day is OK but any more than that and he ends up very congested after a week or so.  Cut out the milk and it clears right up.  Add the milk back into his diet and he's plugged up again.

So I try to make sure that he only gets about one glass (8-10 oz) per day and he is usually pretty good.

Also, when he was a baby he couldn't keep regular formulas down so we had to switch him to a soy based formula.  I doubt that it negatively affected him in any way.  At least none that I can tell.
 
I get phlegmy from drinking milk as well, but I think its more due to the fat than whatever else. I have found that using 1% or skim significantly lessens the phlegm build up. Also try ice cubes in milk. The cubes take on a yellowish color which I assume is fat agglomerated on the ice, but what do I know?
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">allergies are a very specific thing, and generally you know about them becuase if you mess with them, you end up dead.

Intolerance is what you are thinking of (and not lactose intolerance)</div>
It could be intolerance, but I have to disagree on your statement about allergies. Not all allergies are serious enough to result in anaphylactic shock -- otherwise I would be dead by now from pollen.  The symptoms he describes are also classic to histamine release, though it is apparently not bad enough to trigger asthma-like symptoms.

But that discussion doesn't really help his kid.  It seems prudent to:
(1) either abstain or find a level he can tolerate (like Bulldog's kid)
(2) seek medical assistance if the problem is significant enough
 
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(Bulldog @ Apr. 10 2007,12:30)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Slapshotz,

Studies or no studies, I'm absolutely positive that milk makes him congested if he drinks too much of it.  About one glass a day is OK but any more than that and he ends up very congested after a week or so.  Cut out the milk and it clears right up.  Add the milk back into his diet and he's plugged up again.</div>
Yeah, I have to agree with you.  It's just too ironic that his symptoms come &amp; go as milk amounts ebb &amp; flow.

Perhaps I'm being a bit dramatic by abstaining totally, but when you see your kid sick like that, it makes you do dramatic things.

After re-reading the posts on this thread (and thanks to all for your feedback, it was quite good), I think I'll try giving him one glass of milk per day after his symptoms clear, and see how well he tolerates it.  Perhaps he will have a threshold, much like your 7-year old.

There's other ways to get healthy fats into his diet.

And now, a pic in his Spider Man jammies
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(Slapshotz @ Apr. 09 2007,19:02)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">My 18-month old son drinks a tremendous amount of milk, and he gets horrible congestion from it.....</div>
Does he have the same problems with yogurt, cheeses, ice cream and other dairy products?
 
BTW, your son is not the one in the spiderman costume on the floor?
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<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Does he have the same problems with yogurt, cheeses, ice cream and other dairy products?</div>

I think that's part of the problem...he eats all that other stuff, too, except ice cream. What I'm going to do is leave him off all dairy until he feels 100%, then re-introduce yogurt, first. If that goes well, then maybe the occasional slice of cheese.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">BTW, your son is not the one in the spiderman costume on the floor?</div>

lol! yeah, that's him after a milk binge!
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One more option (though of course higher fat) is cheese - some cheeses have a fair bit less lactose than milk does. I think you can buy reduced lactose milk, too?

If you suspect lactose intolerance, it may be worth seeing your Dr, or asking for a referral to a dietician - a good healthcare practitioner should be able to help you test for food intolerances, and if needs-be to decide on alternatives to food your son's intolerant of.
 
Lactose intolerance typically presents as GI distress, but food intolerance in general does not appear to be very well understood, so maybe it is worth a shot?

Hey, cute kid!
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">One more option (though of course higher fat) is cheese - some cheeses have a fair bit less lactose than milk does. I think you can buy reduced lactose milk, too?</div>

Thanks for the input, jmm....if only it were merely lactose intolerance. as ruthenian stated, that's more of a gi thing, and much easier to diagnose, i think. Dairy-free cheese does exist, but it tastes like tire rubber
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<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Lactose intolerance typically presents as GI distress, but food intolerance in general does not appear to be very well understood, so maybe it is worth a shot?

Hey, cute kid!</div>

Agreed. So far after 2.5 days, he's definitely spewing less mucous, so my hopes are high....and hopefully the kid gets his mother's looks....and his grandfather's genetics. In high school, my wife's grandfather was 6'2, 250, a brick $hithouse, if ever one existed.....in high school, I was 5'8, and a whopping 135.
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