opinions wanted

Discussion in 'Hypertrophy-Specific Training (HST)' started by Bryan Haycock, Apr 26, 2005.

  1. Agree with O&G on this. Those gains are not that good. You could do that on a traditional training routing (1 muscle group/week). The vast majority of HSTers here, myself included, have had tremendous success.
    Here`s my take.

    1)What`s his diet like. I`d bet plenty that he`s not getting enough protein and/or overall calories.

    2)There`s no mention of his strength progress and I`d venture that he hasn`t increased that much in his rm`s. He might benefit from a cluster style HST so he can increase the weight. I`d also be curious to see what the weight progressions he uses are.

    Presuming 2 is correct, could this be a kind of long term RBE? By that I mean that he would see initial gains due to SD but only slightly because the rm progression just isn`t there.
     
  2. jdreich

    jdreich New Member

    Hi guys,

    I'm the mistery man behind Bryan's good intentions on helping me.

    First of all I want to thank all of you for using your time on giving advise to a complete stranger.

    As you saw in the post, I've been here (HST) a long time (finishing my 12th cycle) although I consider myself a newbe in weight training (been training for almost 3 years).

    I want to give some more complete background: 5'9, 178lbs, 31 years old, married with 2 beautifull small children.

    I think that, as many of you said, my problem is diet related. Since I've been unclear as to what my goals were (dropping fat or increasing musle) my results were exactly as unclear as my goals.

    One poster said that at 26% bf I should be borderline diebetic. :) If you would see me, you'll see that I'm very far from that.

    As I've seen from this posts (and Bryan's recomendations) I'm clear that I have to drop bf in order to "see" results.

    I live a very busy life, and go to the gym Tuesday (6am!), Thursday (6am) and Sat (at a more normal time :) ). With 2 small children it's tough to sleep the recomended hours and my work life some times sends me away a couple of days a month, making it difficult to maintain diet and exercise schedule.

    I feel comited to dropping my BF%, something I started this sunday.

    As for my routine, I'm attaching my file so you guys can see it and help me.

    The weight you see in "bar" exercises is just the weight on top of the bar (it doesn't count bar or body weight).

    As for diet: I've been using protein powder for a couple of years. I know I have to replace a lot of my carb calories for protein calories, which I plan on doing.

    Again, thanks for all your help,

    JD
     
  3. Old and Grey

    Old and Grey Super Moderator Staff Member

    JD, as I said before, your workout is not a bad one. I think it is more related to your diet. How about posting a typical example of how you normally eat. If your bf% is truly 26%, and I have my doubts that it actually is that high, you should consider trying to lower it to no more than 15% than going on a muscle building high protein, low carb diet. I think you could double your results for the past 2 years within the next year. I do admire your determination but wish you had spoken up sooner. I would have a hard time continuing as you did without seeing some faster results. There are people a lot more knowledgeable about diet on here than I am so maybe they can design something specifically for you. If not, I'll help with general dietary comments but we need to see what you have been doing first.    [​IMG]

    Don't give up yet.

    BTW, donde vive? Yo trabaje en Argentina y Brasil 1990 a 1994.
     
  4. jdreich

    jdreich New Member

    Hi O&G,

    Thanks for your interest in helping me.

    What I'm currently (or trying) doing, diet wise (or unwise) is high carb on workout days and low carb on non workout days:

    Tuesday and Thursday (workout days):
    5:30am: Whey protein with milk (low fat)
    6 : 00 - 6:40: Workout
    6:42: Whey protein with milk + creatine (low fat)
    6:43: Fruit juice (28g carbs)
    10:30: Low fat yogurt (240 ml, 107 kcals, 6,4 P, 0,48 F, 19,2 C)
    1:15pm: Lunch: meat/chicken/fish, rice/potato, bread + butter
    5:30pm: Low fat yogurt (same as above)
    7:15pm: Dinner: meat/chicken/fish, rice/potato, fruit (sometimes ice cream or something "nice")

    Saturday (workout day):
    9:30am: Whey protein with milk (low fat)
    10 : 00 - 10:40: Workout
    10:55: Whey protein with milk + creatine (low fat)
    10:57: Fruit juice (35g carbs)
    2:30pm: Lunch: meat/chicken/fish/pasta, rice/potato, fruit
    6 : 00pm: Whey protein with milk (low fat)
    9 : 00pm: Eating out: meat/chicken/fish, rice/potato, dessert (cheescake or similar)

    Monday, Wednesday, Friday:
    7:15am: Whey protein with milk + creatine (low fat)
    10:30: Low fat yogurt (240 ml, 107 kcals, 6,4 P, 0,48 F, 19,2 C)
    1:15pm: Lunch: meat/chicken/fish, veggies
    5:30pm: Low fat yogurt (same as above)
    7:15pm: Dinner: meat/chicken/fish, veggies, fruit

    Sunday:
    8:30am: Whey protein with milk + creatine (low fat)
    9:30: Low fat milk (330 ml), low fat bread with low fat butter
    2 : 00pm: Lunch: meat/chicken/fish, veggies, cake
    7:30pm: Dinner: meat/chicken/fish, veggies, fruit

    That's my plan and I try to stick to it, although life (travel, long hours at work) some times prevents me to do it. When I do, I get good results and when I see those good results, I relax and gain a little.

    I'm open to suggestions,

    JD

    Oh! BTW: I was born and raised in Santiago, Chile and I live here.
     
  5. You need 5 to 6 small meals daily not 3 big meals.

    I don't see that much wrong with the diet as to what you're eating. You've gotta be gorging yourself with at least 3,000 calories daily. To take off weight you've gotta burn 4,000 calories to lose 1 single pound. That can be computed easy enough, and you'll find it's a heck of a lot of work.

    You need to do a lot of ab and lower back work, that'll trim your gut and love handles.

    You've gotta push it in your workouts. You should take less than 1 minute between your sets, just enough time for glycogen recovery.

    If you'e not sweating and getting pumped like a big dog, you're not working hard enough. You should be breathing hard after every exercise, even calf raises.

    Stay with Compound exercises

    You need squats and SLDL for overall mass growth. Breathing is a huge component of each of these exercises. The weight amount is important, but don't burn yourself down, so that you can't adequately perform the rest of your workout.
    -------------------

    TMO (that's my opinion) [​IMG]
     
  6. Fausto

    Fausto HST Expert

    JDreich
    Buenos dias

    No estava cierto de la nacionalidad, pero yo no soi Castelano, soi Portugues, de modo que lo mio espanol no es mui bueno!

    Well ,that is a little bit exagerated, now isn't it? What I have been thinking and agree 100% with OG is that you may be using the wrong body fat calculator, ther are a big variety of them around the web, but even so, let us see!

    You diet does not look like a diet that you could gain so much weight on, specially if you are working out, one piecde of advice, if you are in the states, buy the driver/primer combo and use it as prescribed, along with the creatine.

    Bryan has got a fairly simple diet plan in the forum, which you could follow, again OG is right, break your meals into 6 per day, rather than the three big ones, that alone should let you see a major difference.

    If I could add, and many may be against my opinion, I think that Tom Venuto has got some major insights in his book, "burn the fat, feed the muscle" and he is actually promoting it at the moment. Well if you look at his contest photos and if that is the diet he follows, then by all means it has to be the right stuff, he brings it right down to 3.7% BF, and yes, he looks good!

    I just posted in another thread, the australian abs program, look it up! There are two diets in the e-book, which could help.

    here's the link:
    Link

    I'd say, you ought to be careful of carbo-loading, rather use a minimal amount of carbs prior to workouts and high protein afterwards.

    Hope this helps.
    Fausto
     
  7. BIZ

    BIZ New Member

    Some of the best bodies in the world are unveiled once the fat is lost. Looking at how you train, it is almost certainly diet that has hindered your progress, not to say you didn't make any progress. As Dan mentioned previously, you did gain some lean mass and lose some fat all while not paying particular attention to your diet. I like doing a ketogenic diet with refeeds every 3-4 days. Works wonders for me and is fairly easy to stick to. Have also been seeing some pleasant results with my vinegar experiment (I take in about 2 tablespoons of vinegar before any meal or shake that contains more than 50g CHO). That's another beast maybe best left to the nutrition thread.
     
  8. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    This is not correct. You have to reduce your overall bodyfat to get rid of your gut, doing ab work will only strengthen the muscles underneath. "Spot reduction" is well known to be a myth.

    Also, don't worry about trying to choke down 5 to 6 small meals a day. I know a lot of people who are trying to lose fat and think they have to eat small meals all day long. In the end, in their attempt to get the 6 meals in, they end up eating more calories than they would if they were eating only 3 meals a day.

    Just worry about your calories and what kind of food you are getting each day, not the number of meals. If you eat 2500 calories in one day, it doesn't matter how many meals that is in. So whichever is easiest for YOU to manage is the way to go.
     
  9. Dood

    Dood New Member

    Totentanz is exactly right on both counts. No spot reductions with ab work, total daily calories matters, not how many meals you eat.
     
  10. What Tot and Dood said is true in the sense that more meals do not help burn off calories by increasing metabolism, but while dieting, evenly spaced smaller meals help with satiety by some reports and others say that gorging help, so I agree with Totentanz, whatever is manageable and sustainable is right for anyone.
     
  11. One more line of thought.

    As an ex fat body myself, just let me say. I wish I had put on 13 lbs of lean mass before I started losing the weight, the additional muscle tissue will serve you well in your attempt at losing the fat.

    Good Luck,

    I now return you to the previously recorded preempted show. :) Today the role of DKM is being played by DOODER the wonder terrier.
     
  12. BIZ

    BIZ New Member

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  13. Old and Grey

    Old and Grey Super Moderator Staff Member

    Dooder for President! [​IMG]
     
  14. Well he is a "Teddy Roosevelt Terrier" does that count? [​IMG]
     
  15. Ryan

    Ryan New Member

    Would you be more motivated if you gained strength cycle-to-cycle?

    If that's the case moving to conjugate or undulated periodization program might be fun for at least a 4-6 week period.
    I have learned alot about my body (physically and emotionally - motivation) by periodically changing periodizations over the last few years a lot of linear (HST), some conjugate (WSB, Lyle's BB Periodization) and undulated (UD2, and Accumulation/Intensification blocks from Thibadeau).

    Most any periodization can adhere to the tenets of HST:
    1. Progressive overload (long-term);
    2. Frequency;
    3. Deloading
     
  16. Dood

    Dood New Member

    Arf?
     
  17. jdreich

    jdreich New Member

    Hi Guys,

    Thanks for all the help.

    One question: regarding cutting or fat loss: what do you do when you SD?

    - Continue dieting?
    - Eat at maintenance then start dieting again on the new cycle?

    Regards,

    JD
     
  18. Dood

    Dood New Member

    I think to preserve muscle mass you would want to eat at maintenance.
     
  19. Zack

    Zack New Member

    I don't agree with the "too much carbs" assessment.

    Maybe too much wrong carbs at the wrong time.

    But I would suggest asking this fellow to drink a big postworkout shake with fast carbs and whey protein, looking for fast carbs at around 1,5 g/kg bodyweight. Make sure he add half a teaspoon of salt to that postworkout shake as well.

    Then 60 minutes later, have him eat a big bowl of pasta. He needs around 1,7-2,0 grams of carbs/kg of bodyweight. Add a can of tuna.

    Add two brief high intensity interval cardio sessions on two of the off days to get the cardio and VO2 max in shape. Those sessions should last no longer than 30 minutes in total IMO, including the warmup and cooling down, so running/spinning for around 12-20 minutes will be good.

    He needs only the Postworkout shake after this sprint. Not the carb up meal.

    During the rest of the day, he should try to keep a balanced diet, and he'll slim down somewhat. When he's down to around 15%, he should consider getting into some serious weightgaining mode.

    Zack
     

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