Simplify and Win!

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(TunnelRat @ Feb. 06 2008,09:03)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Not bad, but be careful with the Upright Rows. If you bring the bar up too high, you can easily damage your shoulders. Depending on variants of shoulder physiology some guys may not be able to do them safely at all.</div>
Upright Rows are supposed to work the traps although they can be used for work mainly the shoulders. If used for the shoulders, I can see the danger. But if you really let the traps do the main work, it won't be necessary to bring the bar up that high. I'm just assuming, so please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Well, according to this trustworthy source, you're only partially right and it is synergistics not the target muscles. it is even classified as a deltoid exercise.

Check it out: Upright Row
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<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I'm just assuming, so please correct me if I'm wrong.</div>

You did ask for correction.!
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(Fausto @ Feb. 06 2008,14:26)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Well, according to this trustworthy source, you're only partially right and it is synergistics not the target muscles. it is even classified as a deltoid exercise.

Check it out: Upright Row
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You did ask for correction.!
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Oh yes, I did ask for correction, thanks. But then again, another source says it's mainly for traps. I'm a bit confused now. Could someone explain that? [/ hijack thread]
 
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(Fausto @ Feb. 06 2008,03:06)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Slight different opinion to sci's suggestion, I'd pick the big five as we do here in S. Africa.

Elephant/Buffalo/Lion/Leopard/Giraffe/

equate it

Deadlifts/Squats/Bench Press/Mil. press - push press/Rows

That covers the whole body
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I didn't mean to suggest these are all you need ever, I was just posting my idea of the absolute simplest routine possible. Squat, bench, row hits thighs, hips, entire back, delts, pecs, arms, most everything!

However my 'personal list' of the best exercises to chose from for creating a 'simplify and win' routine would be in no particular order:

-Back Squat
-Front Squat
-Bench Press
-Deadlift
-Standing Press
-Weighted Dips
-Weighted Chin-ups
-Rows

Thats about it, the rest of the stuff I do sometimes are isolations for arms, delts or calves.
 
Sci

Not trying to come up against your opinion, just a slight different opinion, your in very much in line with stuff like Ripp, Simon, etc, the strength approach, nothing worng with it, I'd say and as &quot;simple as a pimple&quot;
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yet effective, no doubt, if you wanna save time and get big and strong, it will work!

XFatMan

Those two sources are not comparable, even a Physiotherapist or a doctor could work from exrx, I can hardly say the same for bodybuilding.com.

Go check the muscle charts to see what I am talking about! This is a physiology at its best!
 
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(Fausto @ Feb. 07 2008,04:27)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">XFatMan

Those two sources are not comparable, even a Physiotherapist or a doctor could work from exrx, I can hardly say the same for bodybuilding.com.

Go check the muscle charts to see what I am talking about! This is a physiology at its best!</div>
You're right. And I thought I was looking at a reliable source. Uh-oh!
 
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(XFatMan @ Feb. 04 2008,10:43)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">This is a very good thread. My conclusion is that once I have finished my SST cycle, I'd use these exercises:

A / B
Barbell Overhead Press / Barbell Upright Row
Chest Dips / Flat Bench Barbell Press
Bent-Over Barbell Row / Chin Ups
Barbell Squat / Barbell Deadlift</div>
I'm hardly qualified to comment on the efficacy of this routine, but I have to say that, conceptually, it has a very nice balance of movements. Meaning each movement has an exact complement in type of force and direction (direction relative to the torso):

Barbell OH press/Chin-up = Push upward/pull downward
Chest Dip/upright row = Push downward/pull upward
Bent-over Row/Flat Bench = Pull inward/push outward

(doesn't apply to squats &amp; deads so much, but of course these are de rigeur anyway)

So for one workout you push up &amp; down and pull in, for the other workout you pull up &amp; down and push out.
 
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(Robert B @ Feb. 07 2008,10:19)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I'm hardly qualified to comment on the efficacy of this routine, but I have to say that, conceptually, it has a very nice balance of movements. Meaning each movement has an exact complement in type of force and direction (direction relative to the torso):

Barbell OH press/Chin-up = Push upward/pull downward
Chest Dip/upright row = Push downward/pull upward
Bent-over Row/Flat Bench = Pull inward/push outward

(doesn't apply to squats &amp; deads so much, but of course these are de rigeur anyway)

So for one workout you push up &amp; down and pull in, for the other workout you pull up &amp; down and push out.</div>
Well observed. That was one idea behind the selection of the exercises. I used to select exercises merely because of preference, but that's not always the best way to go if you want some balance. And from all the exercises I have chosen, there is only one I absolutely don't like: Barbell Overhead Press. I do it because I know it's necessary for balanced progress and growth.
 
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(XFatMan @ Feb. 06 2008,08:25)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(TunnelRat @ Feb. 06 2008,09:03)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Not bad, but be careful with the Upright Rows. If you bring the bar up too high, you can easily damage your shoulders. Depending on variants of shoulder physiology some guys may not be able to do them safely at all.</div>
Upright Rows are supposed to work the traps although they can be used for work mainly the shoulders. If used for the shoulders, I can see the danger. But if you really let the traps do the main work, it won't be necessary to bring the bar up that high. I'm just assuming, so please correct me if I'm wrong.</div>
Here's a simple test

take a light DB and hold it at your side.

Now while lifting it and keeping it close to your body, place your free hand on your lateral delt of the arm doing the lifting.

Answer these questions

Where did you feel your lateral delts kick in?

Was it neccessary to bring the DB up as high as the bar in that EXRX clip?

You'll probably answer something like.

1. Immediately
2. No

Now do the same and place your hand on your upper trap. Was it different?
 
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(Dan Moore @ Feb. 07 2008,11:14)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Here's a simple test

take a light DB and hold it at your side.

Now while lifting it and keeping it close to your body, place your free hand on your lateral delt of the arm doing the lifting.

Answer these questions

Where did you feel your lateral delts kick in?

Was it neccessary to bring the DB up as high as the bar in that EXRX clip?

You'll probably answer something like.

1. Immediately
2. No

Now do the same and place your hand on your upper trap. Was it different?</div>
I didn't have a dumbbell, so I used a book. I didn't feel the traps doing any work at all unless the book traveled all the way up and I actually squeezed the traps consciously. It sure a deltoid exercise. Thanks for that.

By the way, neither of the links in your signature work.
 
Dan's right I was going to mention that some of the exrx pics show an exagerated form of the exercise, we've discussed that before and it pans out that to do the uprights with heavy weights you have to pull to below your nipples, that guy in the pic is pulling waaaay above that!
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Take note when and if you use it or your delts will tell you shortly that you being silly!
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The exercise descriptions on that site mostly match what you can actually see in the pictures. But what I have found out here about the correct form makes much more sense to me. Unfortunately, exrx.net often shows terrible form, like the Dumbbell Rear Lateral Raise, which in fact looks as if it were a back exercise in the image. That's really a pain because I don't want to rely on people at the gym for correct form. Is there another way I can check my form on other exercises? Bonus question: Wouldn't it be great if we could gather such info with exact descriptions so people can get more reliable info right from the start?
 
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(XFatMan @ Feb. 07 2008,15:24)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">The exercise descriptions on that site mostly match what you can actually see in the pictures. But what I have found out here about the correct form makes much more sense to me. Unfortunately, exrx.net often shows terrible form, like the Dumbbell Rear Lateral Raise, which in fact looks as if it were a back exercise in the image. That's really a pain because I don't want to rely on people at the gym for correct form. Is there another way I can check my form on other exercises? Bonus question: Wouldn't it be great if we could gather such info with exact descriptions so people can get more reliable info right from the start?</div>
There used to be a site that was from some University (I think it was in the midwest) that shows the lifts being correctly done, in most cases. I can't remember for the life of me what site or university now but maybe someone else remembers.

BTW, the links worked for me, weird?

Edit&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I remember now it was Ball State, I don't know if the site still exists though. It used to be called Strength Lab.
 
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(Dan Moore @ Feb. 07 2008,18:52)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(XFatMan @ Feb. 07 2008,15:24)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">The exercise descriptions on that site mostly match what you can actually see in the pictures. But what I have found out here about the correct form makes much more sense to me. Unfortunately, exrx.net often shows terrible form, like the Dumbbell Rear Lateral Raise, which in fact looks as if it were a back exercise in the image. That's really a pain because I don't want to rely on people at the gym for correct form. Is there another way I can check my form on other exercises? Bonus question: Wouldn't it be great if we could gather such info with exact descriptions so people can get more reliable info right from the start?</div>
There used to be a site that was from some University (I think it was in the midwest) that shows the lifts being correctly done, in most cases. I can't remember for the life of me what site or university now but maybe someone else remembers.

BTW, the links worked for me, weird?</div>
Was it this one?

http://www.uwlax.edu/strengthcenter/videos/video_index.htm
 
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(Totentanz @ Feb. 07 2008,18:58)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Dan Moore @ Feb. 07 2008,18:52)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(XFatMan @ Feb. 07 2008,15:24)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">The exercise descriptions on that site mostly match what you can actually see in the pictures. But what I have found out here about the correct form makes much more sense to me. Unfortunately, exrx.net often shows terrible form, like the Dumbbell Rear Lateral Raise, which in fact looks as if it were a back exercise in the image. That's really a pain because I don't want to rely on people at the gym for correct form. Is there another way I can check my form on other exercises? Bonus question: Wouldn't it be great if we could gather such info with exact descriptions so people can get more reliable info right from the start?</div>
There used to be a site that was from some University (I think it was in the midwest) that shows the lifts being correctly done, in most cases. I can't remember for the life of me what site or university now but maybe someone else remembers.

BTW, the links worked for me, weird?</div>
Was it this one?

http://www.uwlax.edu/strengthcenter/videos/video_index.htm</div>
No, it was Ball States Strength Lab, of course I remembered after I posted.

Not sure if it still exists though.

That one you pointed too I haven't seen before.
 
I can't watch the videos on that link for some reason, they crash my browser every time, so I have no idea if it is even a good link.

I think the Ball State one is gone?
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Unfortunately, exrx.net often shows terrible form</div>
X: I'm glad you mentioned that...I've seen a lot of little &quot;improprieties&quot; on the exrx site, but was loathe to mention it on this site since so many guys here use that as their exersize guide. Also, if you do heavy BB upright rows, you may join the shot shoulder club, as many have. I've seen this debated and the consensus was not to raise it above the nipples and you can go heavy.
 
Also, and not tryong to further detract from the original thread, but what I feel is quite important when speaking of from, is.......everyone is going to be a bit different, moment arm differences will have a role to play in how anyone lifts a weight and since we all don't have the exact same dimensions and limb lengths it's close to impossible to say that everyone's form will be identical.
 
oh. my list forgot power cleans. The best way to incorporate these is to do them with your overhead pressing. Start with the bar on the floor, power-clean it and then push press it to lock out. Awesome fullbody workout.
 
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(scientific muscle @ Feb. 08 2008,00:53)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">oh. my list forgot power cleans. The best way to incorporate these is to do them with your overhead pressing. Start with the bar on the floor, power-clean it and then push press it to lock out. Awesome fullbody workout.</div>
Power Cleans are great, really. But they're technically difficult to do, aren't they? Without a reliable instructor by my side seeing what I'm doing, it's probably not something I should start with right now. What do you think?
 
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