Simplify and Win!

[wartiger]

Hey,

thank you all for your responses.

I've decided to focus mainly on the basic exercises, that means for day a: squat, dips, rows and day b: deadlifts, chin ups and bench press.
I think that it is most important to increase the weight in this basic exercises ... and besides of that, it just makes fun to be able to lift more weight...

If I have the time I'll do three light sets of cuban press and some rotator stuff. That should at least maintain my shoulders and implement upright row and military press.

Okay, but not I have to get some goals for the basic exercies, when to reach what weight.

Greetings!

 

[lcars]

<div>
(wartiger @ Apr. 13 2008,04:32)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Hey,

thank you all for your responses.

I've decided to focus mainly on the basic exercises, that means for day a: squat, dips, rows and day b: deadlifts, chin ups and bench press.
I think that it is most important to increase the weight in this basic exercises ... and besides of that, it just makes fun to be able to lift more weight...

If I have the time I'll do three light sets of cuban press and some rotator stuff. That should at least maintain my shoulders and implement upright row and military press.

Okay, but not I have to get some goals for the basic exercies, when to reach what weight.

Greetings!</div>
sounds like a plan.

 

[bullseye]

Hello everyone! This is my first post ever here.

I did HST about two years ago with great results, but since then I've only done &quot;traditional&quot; training. Now I'm back on track again with HST. I'm almost done with my first cycle. It feels good but I'm using too many exercises (13) and because of that my workouts are far too long.

Anyways, I'm trying to simplify my HST-scheme by using fewer exercises. I'm thinking of alternating between an A and B set of exercises to create a short and simple workout.

I want to hit all mayor parts (legs, back, chest, delts, bis, tris and calves) with as few exercises as possible and without risking any lagging on any musclegroup.

Here's my first try: (Feel free to totally flame it and help me make it &quot;perfect&quot

A: B:
Squats || Deads
Weighted Chins || Cable Seated Row
Benchpress || Weighted Dips

Always do:
Shoulder Press
Abs Machine
Standing Calf Raise

Example: Monday(squats) Wednesday(Deads) Friday(Squats).....etc etc.

I'm not sure if I should do Incline bench or just plain benchpress.
Can't decide to go for a wide or close grip on Cable Seated Row either. Not sure if Shoulder Press or Standing Calf Raise is necessary or just superfluous in a simple workout. Maybe it's better to do abs on offdays. What's your opinion on my workout and the above thoughts and questions?

Well that's it! Flame on!

 

[Fausto]

I'd say the only ting missing in your A/B set up is shoulders so, yes keep the shoulder press machine going.

As for calf raises, really depnds on you, to many of us the deads and squast heit teh calves enough, but you've created so much space by simplfying that you have enough time to squeeze both exercises in then get out!

Great example of simplification!

 

[bullseye]

Thanks for the quick reply Fausto. Feels good being able to post

Now what about Incline benchpress or flat benchpress? I guess flat benchpress is more compound than incline benchpress and therefore fit better in a simplified workout?

Close grip vs wide grip cable rows? Close grip work the biceps a little more and wide grip does a better job for the lats. Which one is the most compound exercise of the two?

 

[quadancer]

Inclines will hit your upper pecs and anterior delts more; flat hits the whole chest.
Wide rows are overblown for lat work. Truth is, narrow grip requires more ROM, and therefore more full development. Think about the humerus and it's position. Same goes for chins and pullups, but I can't chin wide due to joint pains anyway.

 

[nipponbiki]

Keep the shoulder press, it is important for balance. And since you are keeping the press, forget the incline bench and do regular. More bang for your buck that way too. Get more bang for you buck by doing standing presses too, if you were thinking of doing them seated.

 

[bullseye]

Then I'll go for the flat bench and close grip cable row! Thanks.

 

[bullseye]

nipponbiki, great idea....I might consider using the standing press to involve some more stabilizing muscles. Thanks for your input.

 

[Xerobeat]

Hey guys, whats a good rest time for in between sets? 1 minute? I'm trying to keep things under an hour if possible. Or not more than an hour and a half.

 

[bullseye]

From what I've read in the HST Faq-section rest periods should be around 1.5-2 minutes. To attain a lactic acid effect during the 15s you could shorten rest periods to about 30-60 seconds. As you reach heavier weights during the 5s rest periods should be increased to something like 2-5 minutes.

 

[ratty]

Fausto ive read afew of your posts here and you really do emphasize how just doing compounds will benefit you rather than including isos....

i really wanna give it a try but at the min im half way through a cycle..ive got a question im unsure and explains why i am a little hesistant do drop the isos..would my arms and traps still grow if i drop the shrugs and arm isos..or would i just maintain their size whilst making big muscle groups (chest back shoulder) growth more productive??

or would you recommend i finish my cycle and then aim for more simplcity in my next cycle??

And also i would like maybe a brief explanation of how doing isos hinders the summation effect etc.....

 

[mikeynov]

Imho, this aversion of isolation exercises is pretty silly.

Yes, if you are a beginner, there is no particularly compelling reason to do a lot of isolation exercises. Compound movements are providing stimulation to basically everything, and your time is best invested in learning proper form and progressing the weight on the bar.

However, as you become an intermediate lifter, you WILL do isolation exercises at some point if you want to reach your genetic potential to be as muscular as possible.

Do you ever NEED to do isolation exercises to get an impressive for you physique? No. But if you are attempting to bodybuild in the truest sense, i.e. get as muscular as possible, you will do them eventually.

 

[colby2152]

I love the debate that Mr. Novak brings to the table. I for one, lean towards Fausto's arguments and I only like isolation exercises for specialization. For example, I have done work with Cuban Presses and Reverse Curls to assist me in my Bench Press and Deadlift, respectively. I may add an isolation exercise into my next cycle to balance the routine out for the most part.

 

[imported_electric]

I am far from being an expert but it seems that there is no reason why/how using compounds isn't sufficient to achieve hypertrophy goals. Isolation exercises are obviously helpful for symmetry purposes. Of course everyone is different and I am in no way saying that there is only one way of doing things.

 

[mikeynov]

<div>
(colby2152 @ Aug. 15 2008,3:40)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I love the debate that Mr. Novak brings to the table. I for one, lean towards Fausto's arguments and I only like isolation exercises for specialization. For example, I have done work with Cuban Presses and Reverse Curls to assist me in my Bench Press and Deadlift, respectively. I may add an isolation exercise into my next cycle to balance the routine out for the most part.</div>
I think the problem is this...

HST exists as a set of principles which, in effect, are meant to optimize the process of muscle accrual. That's it.

HST does not dictate the amount of volume a person uses, the exercises a person uses, or things of that nature. In fact, if people are coming from a background of split routines, all it suggests is a way for them to cycle their intensities and split their weekly volume up to make the most of what they're already doing.

Unfortunately, it seems to me that these principles and the methods which capitalize upon them attract the same sort of minimalist/rationalist types that HIT, Hardgainer, Superslow and lifting systems of that nature does. People start getting extremely &quot;logical&quot; and disdainful of bodybuilders, thinking themselves intellectually superior. Except this doesn't seem to help anybody's actual results, and the constant fear of overtraining is probably one of the biggest problems facing modern lifting labcoats today.

It's a case of excluding the middle, really - somehow the idea of building your routine's foundation on the back of tried and true exercises (squats, deads, bench, chins, etc) turns into &quot;these are the only exercises that are necessary&quot; in people's heads. You can still base a routine on these exercises while fleshing it out with extra work that you, specifically, might benefit from.

The people with the biggest arms are doing direct arm work. If your calves suck after years of full body routines with minimal calf work, it might be time to do some calf raises. If the bench press is leaving your chest lagging behind, guess what, flies might just help.

To state this another way, look at the way Bryan trains and has trained actual bodybuilders using this system. Barring novices, he is using more volume, more exercises, and even stuff like upper/lower splits to maximize people's muscular potential.

All I request is that we not turn HST into another dogmatic, compound-only, do as little as physically possible cult ala HIT/Hardgainer.

 

[Lol]

I think the Simplify and Win thread helps a lot of folks to see that they can make really good gains just using a handful of heavy compound movements instead of a wide range of lighter isos. Even for a seasoned lifter this could still be true if their focus has traditionally been on isos. I agree that to maximise muscular potential you are going to have to do whatever it takes to hit a muscle with enough 'time under tension' to keep it growing. That gets to be the biggest problem: A lot of folks (myself included) just don't have the free time or energy to maximise growth in every muscle group. But I do have the time to do a handful of compounds on a reasonably regular basis to get a pretty good all-over workout.

Got more time? Do more work and focus on your weak points - with isos if need be. Gymnasts have big arms and shoulders because they train them A LOT; sprint cyclists and weightlifters have big legs and glutes because they train them A LOT. Personally, I reckon that to maximise your genetic potential you have to train your full body A LOT. Over-training is probably only going to be an issue for those kinds of people and the rest of us never build up enough tolerance to exercise to find out what it really is.

I have absolutely no doubt that every single Olympian at the current Games has done a whole lot more training (at whatever they do) than I have this past year. If I had put in the time, I would no doubt be a more well-muscled specimen but, with the time I've had, I feel pretty happy with my results (although I'm never content!).

Maybe we should start another thread - &quot;Complicate &amp; Win&quot; - to discuss routines for more seasoned lifters with the time and inclination to add to a &quot;Simplify &amp; Win&quot; foundation. I'm serious!

 

[TunnelRat]

<div>
(mikeynov @ Aug. 15 2008,1:17)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Yes, if you are a beginner, there is no particularly compelling reason to do a lot of isolation exercises. Compound movements are providing stimulation to basically everything, and your time is best invested in learning proper form and progressing the weight on the bar.

However, as you become an intermediate lifter, you WILL do isolation exercises at some point if you want to reach your genetic potential to be as muscular as possible.</div>
I try to base my workouts on the basic compound exercises:
Deadlifts,
Squats,
Bench presses,
Rows,
Chins,
and Dips.

However, I find that my both my arms and legs respond a bit better with a little extra work. So after I've done the fundamentals, I throw in some isos for my bis, tris, and calves, as I have time.

 

[mikeynov]

<div>
(TunnelRat @ Aug. 15 2008,6:45)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(mikeynov @ Aug. 15 2008,1:17)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Yes, if you are a beginner, there is no particularly compelling reason to do a lot of isolation exercises. Compound movements are providing stimulation to basically everything, and your time is best invested in learning proper form and progressing the weight on the bar.

However, as you become an intermediate lifter, you WILL do isolation exercises at some point if you want to reach your genetic potential to be as muscular as possible.</div>
I try to base my workouts on the basic compound exercises:
Deadlifts,
Squats,
Bench presses,
Rows,
Chins,
and Dips.

However, I find that my both my arms and legs respond a bit better with a little extra work. So after I've done the fundamentals, I throw in some isos for my bis, tris, and calves, as I have time.</div>
This is a perfect example of what I mean. Really, how much extra time/effort does it take to flesh out your routine with a few exercises to specifically address areas that might be under-stimulated?

I just don't want to give people the wrong idea about HST when they come into these forums and see threads like this. HST has nothing to do with using only compound lifts or avoiding isolation exercises.

I think HST has earned somewhat of a reputation around the net as 'another low volume routine' and gets mentally filed next to HIT, which is very unfortunate.

 

[mikeynov]

<div>
(Lol @ Aug. 15 2008,5:30)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I think the Simplify and Win thread helps a lot of folks to see that they can make really good gains just using a handful of heavy compound movements instead of a wide range of lighter isos. Even for a seasoned lifter this could still be true if their focus has traditionally been on isos. I agree that to maximise muscular potential you are going to have to do whatever it takes to hit a muscle with enough 'time under tension' to keep it growing. That gets to be the biggest problem: A lot of folks (myself included) just don't have the free time or energy to maximise growth in every muscle group. But I do have the time to do a handful of compounds on a reasonably regular basis to get a pretty good all-over workout.

Got more time? Do more work and focus on your weak points - with isos if need be. Gymnasts have big arms and shoulders because they train them A LOT; sprint cyclists and weightlifters have big legs and glutes because they train them A LOT. Personally, I reckon that to maximise your genetic potential you have to train your full body A LOT. Over-training is probably only going to be an issue for those kinds of people and the rest of us never build up enough tolerance to exercise to find out what it really is.

I have absolutely no doubt that every single Olympian at the current Games has done a whole lot more training (at whatever they do) than I have this past year. If I had put in the time, I would no doubt be a more well-muscled specimen but, with the time I've had, I feel pretty happy with my results (although I'm never content!).

Maybe we should start another thread - &quot;Complicate &amp; Win&quot; - to discuss routines for more seasoned lifters with the time and inclination to add to a &quot;Simplify &amp; Win&quot; foundation. I'm serious!

</div>
Take your first sentence:

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I think the Simplify and Win thread helps a lot of folks to see that they can make really good gains just using a handful of heavy compound movements instead of a wide range of lighter isos.</div>

This is exactly what I meant by 'excluding the middle.' People's options are broader than 'only compound exercises' and 'only isolation exercises.'

Throwing in direct arm/calf work after compounds, for example, is not going to overtrain any able bodied person, imho. Same for adding sets of lateral raises, flies, or whatever else as necessary to bring up lagging body parts.

Nor should any of this be perceived as 'complicating' anything. Mostly because it's not terribly complicated to add some isolation work, as necessary, to the compound lifts people should already be doing.