The death nell for ketosis?

T

the_dark_master

New Member
New study indicates that indicates that after the initial rapid water loss induced by the Atkins/ketogenic diet, the diet actually changes into a high-protein diet. This was "proven" on a BBC documentry last week; after an initial greater weight loss in the keto group (against a reduced cal. diet group) the increased satiety of the keto group led them to eat less, and by this virtue, the diet became more protein based. The science behind ketosis, although not totally debunked; was put into doubt...

My question is: where do we go from here? [It seems we've come full circle - fat bad/carbs good, carbs bad/fat good etc etc.]

TDM
 
IT would seem this is something that's been known for a while. I'm wondering though if the effects of ketosis are still beneficialin the long term regarding weight loss, especially in people with blood disorders and hormonal imbalances. There may be a larger issue of our entire society engorging itself on sweets for so long, making it full of people more succeptible to the beneficial effects of a ketogenic diet. My guess is Lyle would have more to say about this than any of us.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I'm wondering though if the effects of ketosis are still beneficialin the long term regarding weight loss
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well, according to the evidence presented in that particular documentary, the answer is no. One twin in ketosis did not burn any more calories or more fat than his twin who was on a calorie resticted diet without being in ketosis. I think the particualr study was carried out at Univ. of Washington? (cant remember the exact details). According to that particular study, being in ketosis is irrelevant in terms of weight loss.

To restate what the dark master already said, there was a large study undertaken in the UK (televised). Here they compared several different popular diets. 'Slim-fast' (liquid meal replacement type diet) vs. 'atkins' vs. low fat vs. a couple others. Overall, they found that the regular low fat diet and atkins worked best for weight loss. But at the time they couldnt explain the reaaon behind atkins success. It was only in the months after the initial study where they reviewed all the diet logs that they uncovered the reason. Basically, on average, people on atkins consumed fewer total calories than those on other diets.

The question arose, why should people who are allowed to eat as much fat as they like be consuming fewer calories without realising it?

They looked at fat and protein. They reported a study that showed that fat is not the appetite suppressor we think it is. And they reported another study that found proetin to be the appetite suppressor.

The documentary concluded that there is no mystery to atkins...no magic of being in ketosis. It is simply to do with calorie intake being reduced. In addition they suggested that this unconscious calorie reduction is caused by the appetite suppression of protien.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]My question is: where do we go from here? [It seems we've come full circle - fat bad/carbs good, carbs bad/fat good etc etc.]
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the answer is very simple...and its as simple as it always has been. if you want to loose fat, cut your daily calorie intake and/or increase your daily calorie expendature.

In terms of good vs bad, start with what your body needs to maintain its health, ie water, essential amino acids, essential fatty acids, vitamins and minerals and calories.
 
try not to think of foods as good or bad, as that just makes it black and white. Anything is bad, you also have to take into account quantity etc

which is why no foods are bad, just whole diets.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]the answer is very simple...and its as simple as it always has been. if you want to loose fat, cut your daily calorie intake and/or increase your daily calorie expendature.
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this is going to work only up to a point, how far depending on individuals.
 
I have been avoiding keto discussions because they seem so divisive. People tend to be pretty passionate about whether they work or not, whether there is a metabolic advantage or not, and on and on.


After losing 60 pounds about 2 years ago on a low GI, low carb diet I was pretty passionate there was something special about LC and ketosis.


Since then though I have done a ton of research, looked at many studies, read Lyle's Keto book (the best one I've read). And done a lot of experimenting on myself.
ALL I HAVE FOUND IS THERE IS NO CLEAR BLACK or WHITE ANSWER.
For some keto works amazingly, for others there is no benefit.

All I know is what works for me. However for each one of us individually, all that matters is; does it work for you or not.

For me a Keto diet is very effective. Keeping track of my Calories over periods of time show I personally can eat more and still lose fat as long as the carbs are low. When the Carbs go up with LESS Calories I gain fat, while keeping the some exercise routine.

The point of this is Who Cares what some study says or what works for somebody else. Do what works for you! Experiment!

If it is Calories that matter for you follow that path, if its low carb or low fat or high carb, whatever it is follow what works for you.

My 2 cents


JWJ
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (jwjpilot @ Jan. 31 2004,1:30)]The point of this is Who Cares what some study says or what works for somebody else. Do what works for you! Experiment!
If it is Calories that matter for you follow that path, if its low carb or low fat or high carb, whatever it is follow what works for you.
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I couldn't agreed more. Keto seems to be working for me, using a TKD. I can still maintain my training and while my weight isn't going down too much or too fast, inches are disappearing off my waist. My guess is I'm putting on muscle while taking off fat pretty effectively right now. Maybe in the future a TKD will be less effective for me, I'll have to see when the time comes.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (xahrx @ Jan. 31 2004,2:10)]I couldn't agreed more. Keto seems to be working for me, using a TKD. I can still maintain my training and while my weight isn't going down too much or too fast, inches are disappearing off my waist. My guess is I'm putting on muscle while taking off fat pretty effectively right now. Maybe in the future a TKD will be less effective for me, I'll have to see when the time comes.
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Hey Xahrx,

Glad to hear someone else is having success with keto. I also have been able to maintain my cardio and weight training without problem. I hear many say they have a very difficult time weight training in extended ketosis, I do OK out to about 3 weeks of Ketosis and then do a refeed.

I am thinking of doing a TKD because I don't like the extreme swings of CKD. What are the details of how you do it?


JWJ
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (jwjpilot @ Jan. 31 2004,4:56)]I am thinking of doing a TKD because I don't like the extreme swings of CKD. What are the details of how you do it?
JWJ
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I just stick to my regular keto diet for the most part. I drink half a sports drink before my workout, and the rest during, and that gives me just over thirty simple carbs to work with. I keep all my reps at ten or below. Anything above that I don't mess with. I've experienced low carb >10rep work by accident once, and I don't care to feel like that again. Since you've done a CKD, you know what I'm talking about.

What happened to me one time is I switched protein powders once without realizing that the new one had only three carbs per serving instead of 30, like my prior powder. That was a horrible feeling when I tried to maintain an intense workout, I greyed out and the next day I read the label again and realized the mistake I made. You live, you learn.

Like you, I refeed, but I do it in moderation on the weekends.
 
I heard that sticking to keto diet for long periods can be unhealthy, since it can negatively affect your cholestrol.Is there any truth ?
:) Anoop
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (anoopbal @ Feb. 02 2004,10:50)]I heard that sticking to keto diet for long periods can be unhealthy, since it can negatively affect your cholestrol.Is there any truth ?
:) Anoop
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Not keto itself, but if you are iso/hyper caloric, with a reasonable amount of saturated fat, cholesterol levels do raise quite nicely.
When hypocaloric, cholesterol levels will go down.

keto can lead to raised Uric acid levels, so if you are prone to gout, it may be wise to avoid pure keto style diets.
 
Several years ago I saw a study that concluded that calories, regardless of the source, ultimately determined weight gain or loss. I think it was actually done by The National Calorie Institute, whoever they are. I haven't studied all this keto stuff as yet, but I can tell you that I think any diet that severely limits any particular nutrient can be unhealthy. We learned that the hard way when some people took low fat to mean no fat; even the "evil" fat is required for overall good health. But yes, to each his own is how it should be, until we know unequivocally what's what. That said, know that I actually lost too much too fast once, while eating at least one ice cream cone a day, I just had to have them. Go figure. :D
 
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