The Road to 10%

fwiw.

i dont know whats the cause of your knees trouble, obviously, and deads and/or squats might be the culprit. i would just be careful of too much running on the treadmill. without knowing much about the details of the situation a quick glance at your w/os leading to knee pain would make me question the running before the lifting.

form can be an issue but your still lifting under 200 for deads and squats. now it may feel heavy to you but its certainly not serious heavy for a 200+lb guy(not a comment on strength) when compared to running, on a treadmill, at @220lbs.

5x2x170 for deads is nothing compared to the knee strain/pounding 220x5,10 or15 minutes provides.  

anyway, just some thoughts. your obv. tuned into the prob. and its cause etc. i hope it all works out.
 
Colby:

What is your knee pain like? Where do you feel it most? Can you trigger it on the spot with a push, or is it delayed onset? Can you put your finger on it?
 
bluejacket wrote:
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">form can be an issue but your still lifting under 200 for deads and squats. now it may feel heavy to you but its certainly not serious heavy for a 200+lb guy(not a comment on strength) when compared to running, on a treadmill, at @220lbs.</div>

Hmm...this is an excellent point. With your size, and given the amount of HST cycles you've done, those squat and dead number should be way way higher than they are, which makes me think that maybe something is going on in your knee(s) that's keeping you from building strength in those exercises. Perhaps form is an issue?

Maybe it's time to drop the weights WAY down and get your form in order, then work back up? Just a thought. How deep do you go with your squats? Believe it or not, going well below parallel is way better for your knees than going parallel or above. Sounds weird, but it's absolutely true.

Remember, you may not &quot;want&quot; the added size in the gams, but nothing builds mass and changes body comp for the better than squatting and deadlifting, and I know how important that 10% number is to you. If you can get your knees feeling good and really working on bringing up those squat and dead numbers, your body comp will really start to change for the better, and pretty soon you'll be talking about your road to 7% after 10% is a distant memory
smile.gif
 
Colby, another quick question re your knee issue: have you tried using a rowing machine or stationery bike instead of the treadmill? Much kinder on your knees. Might give them a chance to heal up a bit without the need to drop squats and deads.
 
<div>
(bluejacket @ Jul. 31 2008,12:27)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">fwiw.

i dont know whats the cause of your knees trouble, obviously, and deads and/or squats might be the culprit. i would just be careful of too much running on the treadmill. without knowing much about the details of the situation a quick glance at your w/os leading to knee pain would make me question the running before the lifting.

form can be an issue but your still lifting under 200 for deads and squats. now it may feel heavy to you but its certainly not serious heavy for a 200+lb guy(not a comment on strength) when compared to running, on a treadmill, at @220lbs.

5x2x170 for deads is nothing compared to the knee strain/pounding 220x5,10 or15 minutes provides.  

anyway, just some thoughts. your obv. tuned into the prob. and its cause etc. i hope it all works out.</div>
Wow! Thank you for everyone's replies and interest in my situation. I will reply to these one at a time...

Bluejacket,

I thought running on the treadmill may aggrevate my knees, but, so far, it hasn't had that effect. I will keep a close watch on it, but I need the cardio.

I really believe (deadlift) form was the problem. Several weeks ago, I noticed my deadlift stance deviated to something abnormal. I would pull the bar up off of the floor without driving my hips up or bending my back until the bar crossed my knees. Try doing this with a 45 lb bar and you will feel the force centralize itself on the knees. I since corrected this, but I may have caused a minor injury. Since then, my pain has persisted despite going to what I believe is the correct form on deadlifts. I even instigated the pain the other day with no barbell in hand, practicing a normal deadlift motion.

I weigh approximately 230 lbs, so sub-200 lb loads are not much relative to my body when it comes to legs, so you are spot on with that idea. I think it is safe to back off for a month.

Thanks,

Colby
 
<div>
(beingisbeing @ Jul. 31 2008,1:56)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Colby:

What is your knee pain like? Where do you feel it most? Can you trigger it on the spot with a push, or is it delayed onset? Can you put your finger on it?</div>
Beingisbeing,

The pain is a somewhat sharp internal pain, and it only happens when I move. This tells me that it is possible ligament or tendon damage, but, then again, I am no doctor! I feel it in my left knee more than my right knee, but I haven't felt it in a few days since I last tried any type of deadlift movement. I only feel it when I move, so I cannot trigger it on the spot with a finger push. My knees have felt fine for the past few days.

The other thing to mention is that I started swinging golf clubs in the past month. I have been learning the form, and it was horrible at first, so maybe that contributed to the knee issues. I haven't been to the driving range since Friday.

-Colby
 
<div>
(Slapshotz @ Jul. 31 2008,6:59)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">bluejacket wrote:
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">form can be an issue but your still lifting under 200 for deads and squats. now it may feel heavy to you but its certainly not serious heavy for a 200+lb guy(not a comment on strength) when compared to running, on a treadmill, at @220lbs.</div>

Hmm...this is an excellent point.  With your size, and given the amount of HST cycles you've done, those squat and dead number should be way way higher than they are, which makes me think that maybe something is going on in your knee(s) that's keeping you from building strength in those exercises.  Perhaps form is an issue?  

Maybe it's time to drop the weights WAY down and get your form in order, then work back up?  Just a thought.  How deep do you go with your squats?  Believe it or not, going well below parallel is way better for your knees than going parallel or above.  Sounds weird, but it's absolutely true.

Remember, you may not &quot;want&quot; the added size in the gams, but nothing builds mass and changes body comp for the better than squatting and deadlifting, and I know how important that 10% number is to you.  If you can get your knees feeling good and really working on bringing up those squat and dead numbers, your body comp will really start to change for the better, and pretty soon you'll be talking about your road to 7% after 10% is a distant memory
smile.gif
</div>
Slapz,

As I said, I believe form is the main culprit. Now that I am thinking about it, the golfing may have had a lot to do with it since my form was so bad there. I also have a slight pain in my left elbow that could be a slight tennis elbow pain.

I dropped the weights very low to get form in order before. I seem to overcompensate in one direction or another as I try to master deadlift form. I think I may finally have it, but I am now on a specialized SD to take care of the pain.

I know squats and deads are the mass builders and consequently calorie burners, but it is best for my body to put these on hold.

Thanks for the tips!

-Colby
 
<div>
(Lol @ Aug. 01 2008,12:33)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Colby, another quick question re your knee issue: have you tried using a rowing machine or stationery bike instead of the treadmill? Much kinder on your knees. Might give them a chance to heal up a bit without the need to drop squats and deads.</div>
I work out at home, and the only available cardio machine is the treadmill. Other options include Pilates, Tabata of some sort, Jump Ropes, Yard Work, Swiss Ball Work and Cleaning.
 
HST 5's - WO 5/7 - Chest - 8/1/08
<span style='color:red'>core stretch work, 10 min walk &amp; run</span>
<span style='color:blue'>Bench Press: 45 - 10, 95 - 5, 135 - 3, 155 - 2, 175 - 1, 195 - 5 (2 sets)</span>
<span style='color:red'>25 min mixed pace HIIT on treadmill</span>

Awesome bench and workout overall.  I feel this may be the best fit for my last steps on the road to 10%... I am already drawing up my 16th HST cycle, and eh, it may not fit the full body frequency bill that HST principals call for.  It will have SD, progressive load and no training to failure though...
 
HST 5's - WO 5/7 - Back &amp; Shoulders - 8/4/08
<span style='color:red'>core stretch work, 3 min walk, cleaning</span>
<span style='color:blue'>OH Press: 45 - 5, 65 - 3, 85 - 2, 95 - 1, 105 - 5 (3 sets)
One Arm Bent-Over Row: 12.5 - 10, 37.5 - 5, 50 - 3, 62.5 - 2, 75 - 5 (2 sets)</span>
<span style='color:red'>17 min mixed pace run on treadmill to the sound of Pink Floyd - Shine on You Crazy Diamond</span>
 
HST 5's - WO 6/6 - Chest &amp; Shoulders - 8/6/08
<span style='color:red'>core stretch work, swiss ball crunches, pilates</span>
<span style='color:blue'>Bench Press: 45 - 10, 115 - 5, 145 - 3, 165 - 2, 185 - 1, 205 - 5, 210 - 1, 1, 2
OH Press: 45 - 5, 75 - 3, 85 - 2, 95 - 1, 105 - 5, PR: 110 - 5</span>

205 is my previous 5RM, I'll try for 210 on Monday, my next scheduled workout.  I am taking off from running as you guys suggested.  My knees were hurting yesterday.  SD from all lower body exercises has started.
 
nice pressing Colby! appears you're getting stronger.
 
<div>
(fearfactory @ Aug. 06 2008,10:24)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">nice pressing Colby!  appears you're getting stronger.</div>
Thanks for the compliments FF... I am going to test the OH Press next non-bench workout to verify the new 5RM. Also, I would like to bench my body weight for 5 reps before the years is over. The two weights are converging towards each other, with my 5RM at 205 (and maybe at 210 soon) and my last recorded weight from a month ago at 233.5 and probably down closer to 230 now, it is now just a 20 lb gap. I expect to weigh 220-225 by the end of the year.
 
<div>
(beingisbeing @ Aug. 08 2008,12:39)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">nice presses dude! Can't wait to start getting stronger. Your log is ramping me up!</div>
I could do the 3's for another week or so, but I am opting for SD thanks to busy extended weekends and an even busier next two weeks.

My 17th HST cycle will be fitted to my needs and desires and will adapt alongside a cardiovascular and calisthenics (chins, push-ups, dips) routine for increased conditioning.
 
Another update on the knees... they are feeling better, but still feel stiff in the morning and some occasional discomfort during the day. I am wondering if I should apply some treatment via hot or cold presses.
 
SD over, back to lifting...

HST Cycle XVII - 15's - 8/18/08
<span style='color:red'>Swiss Ball Crunches: 25, Static Leg Raise: 30s each, Frog Presses: 25</span>
<span style='color:blue'>Bench Press: 45 - 15, 100 - 15 (2 sets)</span>
<span style='color:red'>Swiss Ball Crunches: 25, Static Leg Raise: 30s each, Frog Presses: 25</span>
<span style='color:blue'>One Arm Row: 50 - 15 (2 sets)</span>
<span style='color:red'>Swiss Ball Crunches: 25, Static Leg Raise: 30s each, Frog Presses: 25</span>
<span style='color:blue'>OH Press: 45 - 10, 55 - 15 (2 sets)</span>
<span style='color:red'>Swiss Ball Crunches: 25, Static Leg Raise: 30s each, Frog Presses: 25</span>
<span style='color:blue'>DB Fly: 12.5's - 15 (2 sets)</span>

Excellent workout. My cardio routine has changed to be included in between each exercise and much more structured than before. There is also much more core work as I am still holding off on any type of leg work such as running, squats or deads.

That's the first time I did fly's in 3 years, and 25 total lbs is a very low weight, but I have no clue what my 15RM is. I recall flys being much lower weight - similar to that of lateral raises. I'll find out within two weeks!
 
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