what happens on your 15-10-5RM day?

Discussion in 'Basic Training Principles and Methods' started by Dont_quit, Aug 10, 2004.

  1. Dont_quit

    Dont_quit New Member

    On your 15-10-5 RM workout, your first set would be to failure, and you couldn't do any more sets if you were doing more than one, could you? Should you even try?

    I guess this is just a blank in my readings of this forum/faq

    thanks!
     
  2. Lars

    Lars New Member

    Well, you should stay clear of failure at all times. Besides, if you've done your numbers right you should've gained strength during the cycle and be stronger than your old RMs
     
  3. mikeh

    mikeh New Member

    Like Lars said you should be able to lift your RM on your first set, however my 2nd set MIGHT come up a few reps short. Usually towards the end of the workout or if I didn’t rest long enough between sets.
     
  4. Dont_quit

    Dont_quit New Member

    ok thanks for clearing that up!
     
  5. Heavy Duty dude

    Heavy Duty dude New Member

    I was just wondering about this: wouldn't it be possible to extrapolate the 10RM from the 5RM and the 10RM? Could we say that it's the average of the 2 or use some formula?
     
  6. Bryan Haycock

    Bryan Haycock Administrator Staff Member

    15RM + 20% = ~10RM
    10RM + 15% = ~5RM
     
  7. Bryan Haycock

    Bryan Haycock Administrator Staff Member

    Yes, you will likely be trainign to failure if you are using your RMs. This is just fine.

    If you can't get a second set, simply break it up into two sets. For example, if you do your first set with your 10RM, but can't get another set for 10 reps, Simply do 2 more sets of 5 with your 10RM.

    Remember to keep your focus on the main principles, progressive load, adequate frequency, and adequate volume. If you've been doing 2 sets of 10 for your 10 rep block, go ahead and just make sure you get 20 good reps. If you have to take a break at #5 during teh second set, so what? Our goal is not strength or even the completion of 10 reps in a row. Our goal is to steadily increase the mechanical load (strain, tension, stretch, etc) on the tissue over time while keeping the absolute amount of time that the load is applied relatively constant.

    Your second option is to have your training partner assist you for the remaining reps in eccentric ONLY fashion. What I mean is, do NOT do forced reps. Just have him/her lug the weight up for a couple more eccentric reps. That way you minimize CNS drain while getting the desired time-under-tension.

    Make sense?
     
  8. Heavy Duty dude

    Heavy Duty dude New Member

    Anyways I wonder if it's really usefull to measure the 10RM and the 5RM since our strength is likely to have changed in the meantime - in fact 6 to 8 weeks in we include the SD -.

    It's probably as accurate to determine the 10RMs after having done our 15RM workout ( last wo of the 15s I mean ) by adding 20%, and to determine the 5RMs after having done our 10RM workout by adding 15%.
     
  9. Bryan Haycock

    Bryan Haycock Administrator Staff Member

    The idea that HST is based on says that voluntary strength and the tissues leve of resistance to the anabolic effects of "loading" are not necessarily connected. In other words, your strength does not accurately predict what weight loads are required to induce growth.

    Now, before any of you lurkers get all upset and start misquoting me on your favorite boards, let me clarify. Let us take as an example to lifters. Lifter #1 has never lifted a weight in his life. Lifter #2 is a veteran lifter and is quite strong.

    We start our experiment after letting both lifters "rest" "veg" and generally "slack off" for 4 weeks before we lift. Now we take lifter #1 and have him give an all out effort on bench. We then take lifter #2 and have him also give an all out effort on bench. Lo and behold lifter #2 nearly tears a pec trying to repeat his previous best 1RM while lifter #1 isn't even sore the next day. Of course Lifter #1 only put 135lbs on the bar while Lifter #2 loaded it up with 335lbs.

    Our example demonstrates that as you get stronger and stronger, the difference between the "minimum effective load" for hypertrophy and your 1RM grows greater and greater.

    In short, if you are strong, don't worry so much about working at your strength limits all the time. It isn't necessary for growth until the very end of the cycle.
     
  10. Heavy Duty dude

    Heavy Duty dude New Member

    Do you know what causes this difference? Is it because of the RBE? Do we decondition faster to very heavy loads or something like that?

    I would have thought rather the contrary from what I had been able to understand. The more advanced you are the more conditionned you tend to be, the more you need to decondition and the more you have to use heavy weights.
     
  11. s7e

    s7e New Member

    So as far as hypertrophy goes, would finishing up 2 full sets of 10 be the same as doing 1x10 + 2x5? Or would the 2x10 yield better growth?
     
  12. mplieb

    mplieb New Member

    I wonder if I am doing something wrong. I followed the 15 rep and 10 rep periods very closedly. I just started my 5 rep part of the plan and I have lost strength. Is that normal? For example. My 5RM for the bench was 215, and my first day of the 5rep sets I could just barely do 5 at 180lbs. All other exercises were really not a problem though. Just the bench.

    Thanks.
     
  13. If your strength continues to diminish, then worry, but to sweat it over just one day, I wouldn't. Get some good rest before your next workout and some good food and hit it again on your next workout and see what happens.
     
  14. mplieb

    mplieb New Member

    Thank you. I guess it was just the first day of using heavy weights again. I am on my third day and pressed 190 with less effort than the first day at 180. I guess the strength is there and coming back.
     
  15. s7e

    s7e New Member

    Could somebody answer this for me? Thanks.
     
  16. Old and Grey

    Old and Grey Super Moderator Staff Member

    Assuming that the weight is the same, You are working with more intensity with the 2X10 program. The total load remains the same but you are reaching a higher percentage of your rep maximum. If you are not overtraining, then that should yield the better result but may also lead to hitting the repeated bout effect earlier than the other scheme.
     

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