What's your take?

I love deadlifting. I do Sumo's. Great lift.

I just finished the 4th workout of 15's, and I am feeling some good things happen already. Weird because I don't feel challenged during the workout. I am doing 5 pound increments on all exercises. Hope this is a sufficient increment!
 
Ah, a brothah Sumo styler! I think 5 lbs. for a total mass movement is rather weak, myself. I was gaining 20 lbs./workout with them for about 6 workouts (from my first time ever) and it slowed to about 10-15, then I switched to Sumo and I'm kickin' again, for now. Of course, I'm a little bigger than you I think, so my increments can be larger, but if you're not feeling challenged...it's up to you.
Also, you have to consider a.) which program you're on b.) cut or bulk and c.) SST or HST...and that doesn't even get into any injuries or whatnot you may have to watch.

The biggest thing that's helped my deads is the mental aspect of EXPLODING every muscle in my body .001 second after activating my hips and gut. It even got my "path" more in line. Wifey says it's going up in a straight line except for the hook at the top.
 
jonpaul

your deadl poundage increase really depends on how close you are to your max. if the w/o arent challenging then 5lbs certainly seems small. i believe most do about a 10-20lb increase each w/o for a few cycles and by then your 15-10-5 rm are very defined so you can adjust your w/o's from there.

it sounds like your being very conservative with wgts (for dl) this cycle, perhaps your 1st or 1st in a long time. 5lbs is a small amount (probably cant feel the diff) when compared to the total amount lifted in deadl. so going to 10 will not be a too tough. im all for starting modest and working up but if the w/o's are not challenging and your getting to the end of the 15's its time to be more agressive.

good luck
 
AAAAK! Pride goeth before a fall...
My deads are getting really tough for me now. I got PR's again, but only 10 lbs. for reps and 10 for max single.
Deads:
225x5
315x5
385x5 (+10)
415x0
415x1 (+10) -really, really worked for this one. Had to grab the wraps so I'd stop thinking about my grip. Then I got it up. Man, was my face RED!!!
I expect I'll be hitting 5lb increments pretty soon myself. I guess I'm too new to deads to know what I'm talking about!  
sad.gif

I wonder if I could tweak the 5x5 here in the later weeks to doing deads 2x/week, maybe at +5 lb. each? Leige? Aaaron? Steve? C'mon dawgs, help me out!
 
im no DL expert myself but im willing to bet that your 315x5 and 385x5 efforts had a lot to do with your 415x0 and 415x1 (very hard)

trying to pr in DL reps and then try to pr in a max is a very difficult combo regardless of how long you've been deadlifting.

either way, congratulations. those are good #'s for someone who has not been working at it for long.
 
Quad, that's great lifting man. As bluejacket said, the 385 x 5 is definitely what knocked out your first 415 attempt. I reckon you would get at least two good reps if you just did 2 reps for 385 next time (or skipped it altogether). Best not to try for a 1RM and a 5RM in the same session though. Either one will kill the other unless you have a really long rest between (so better on a different day).

I just got to the end of 10s this cycle (I'm cutting and have lost 10lbs so far) and it was really hard compared to last cycle (I have kept the loads the same). Only just managed 8 reps with 360lb whereas last cycle I got all 10. Did a further 5 but that killed me. Dropped it back to 315 for a final set of 10 instead. I'm not looking forward to 5s now but I really want to try not to let the loads drop off too much if I can possibly help it.

How do you guys find sumo style compared to regular deadlifting? I have only ever done regular. Does it take your knees a while to adjust to the difference in strain on them?
 
Wow, was I being stupid! I didn't even think of the 5rm! I was just doing the single to check my gains...
Lol - you are rockin' man! To do that on a cal. deficit is nothing to sneeze at! I'd have lost a lot more than 2 reps myself, I'm sure.
Sumo conversion: no problem whatsoever. I'm 5'11", so sumo works better for my torso, and takes load off my sore ol' back. I've had no knee problems since going ATG in squats, so I felt no difference going to sumo either. The knee angle will depend upon your torso length vs. hip to feet length. I would think that would be the determining factor if you have knee troubles. One of those deadlift links the guys posted had a chart for that.
 
I hear you guys. But for my first cycle I wanted to take it slow and get to know the program. I can feel the difference between the workouts. I am definately be challenged... then again it's my first go around.

That's some great numbers Quad! Ouch on the deadlifts. I was in the "two's" last month. I am 6'0" and 192 pounds fairly lean now.

If i went to 10lb inc's, the first few workouts of the phase would be a little easy don't you think? Or am I missing something?
 
lol
i prefer sumo b/c my leg length. im 6' but my body (waist up) is of a person whose typically 5'8"-5'9" tall and the legs of someone 6"3". i tried normal deads but it was just so much leg/knees i had to clear both up and down that once i tried sumo i knew it was for me. i didnt notice any knee issues that i had to get used to just the normal "groove" that all exer. take time to find. it sound like your moving good wgt with normal deads so i dont know if i would change. im not aware of any strength benefits with one or the other, it seems to be more of a style pref./comfortability thing.

jonpaul
<<If i went to 10lb inc's, the first few workouts of the phase would be a little easy don't you think? Or am I missing something? >>

tough to answer without knowing the wgt were talking about but if you start at aroung 75% of your rep max that should leave room for 10 lb inc in the deadl. keep in mind deads in the 15s is more of a cardio/lactic acid exer rather then a heavy/hard wgt exer. those will come in the 10's and especially in the 5's. if the exer still seems too easy but you think the wgt is right then just slow your reps a little and concentrate on form.

good luck
 
Howabout tryin' the old 5-5-5 plyometric squat warm-up?
5kg medicineball held behind neck:
5 reps done rhythmically to parallel, followed by
5 reps A2G...
5 reps A2G with an explosive jump outta the hole (ensure feet leave the ground)
See if that improves ya pullin'
wink.gif
 
JonPaul: because I only do deads once a week (during 10s and 5s) I can increment the weight much more - usually about 40/50lbs a session during 10s and then about 20lbs during 5s. During post-5s I just push the load up when I can (not likely this cycle though as I'll be lucky to even match last cycle).

Another thing that I have found during 5s is that I don't try to do sets across for deads like I do for squats. I find that one top set of 5 is so hard that even clustering afterwards is really, really difficult. So I tend to drop the load back a bit (about 50 lbs) and grind out two more sets of 5 with that.

I am doing my heavy sets with straps which means I am cheating really. I am also doing continuous reps rather than setting the bar back down after each rep and standing up, before setting-up again for the next rep. We all know that the hardest rep doing deads this way is the first one. Still, I have been getting good results and I am not planning on entering a competition any time soon.

I am working on my hopeless grip strength to try to help with my deads just hanging on to a heavy bar with over-over grip. (My left-hand grip always goes first.) Managed 330lbs for just shy of 25 seconds yesterday before my left hand gave up.

Blue: Thanks for the info. How wide a stance do you take? Feet right out to the plates? I have seen folks lift really heavy weights this way but it looks like they are getting ready to have a major injury to me! However, I quite like the idea of not having my thumbs catch my thighs on the way up as I recently split one open doing so.
 
Since the day of the Blood, I began wearing my pajama bottoms to work out in; smooth passage for bars, thumbs and a quick pee. I stopped using old worn out sneakers due to foot rollover, even though I'm not super wide. I don't want to have to worry about my toes if I fail, and I just don't need to be that wide for comfort.
 
My feet are fairly wide-stance, wider than shoulders, my knees end up roughly at shoulder-width. There is about 5 inches between the plates and the outside of my feet. It is the most natural feel for deadlifting for me.
 
<div>
(quadancer @ Feb. 10 2007,14:55)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Since the day of the Blood</div>
biggrin.gif


Interesting PJ idea Quad. Don't think I'll wear them to my gym though but I know you train at home so that makes sense. I've tried spacing my hands a little wider to avoid contact and that's been working but it does make the lift feel a little harder (I guess because I have to bend a little more initially but it could just be cos I'm feeling depleted this cycle).

OK, thanks guys. I may give that stance a go next cycle. I'll do a lighter set of Sumo along with a set of normal deads, so I don't have to drop my top loads whilst I'm learning the new stance.
 
I tried some work jeans, but there's just a bit too much restriction.
I assume we're all talking about 7' Olympic bars here, not the Walmart specials or whatever.
 
Jean would squish my boys.

On a related note, when I deadlift (either regular or sumo) the next day I am stiff and I have noticed tightening of my hamstring muscles, and some stiffness in my hip/lower back area. I have to get in the floor and stretch for about 5-10 minute before being able to be mobile. I think it's the dealifting/bed combo.
 
JP, have you considered a bit of extra posterior chain work to help those deads out? Maybe a bit of muscle imbalance causing the hammys to tighten up?

And I have to do manly stretches between every set of squats and after every deadlift set too so I don't get too tight afterwards.

I call them manly stretches because saying, &quot;yoga poses&quot; sounds just a little feminine.

Stretching after workouts is good...remember. Don't wait until the next day when you are stiff.
 
<div>
(Lol @ Feb. 10 2007,09:00)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Blue: Thanks for the info. How wide a stance do you take? Feet right out to the plates? I have seen folks lift really heavy weights this way but it looks like they are getting ready to have a major injury to me! However, I quite like the idea of not having my thumbs catch my thighs on the way up as I recently split one open doing so.</div>
my stance sounds just like sci muscle. wide but not all the way out to the plates. again, it just feels the most natural for me.
about the thumbs, im not sure sumo will avoid the thumb meets quad problem. i try to dead with no straps close to 300lbs. up to about 225 i can do it with a thumbless hook grip but after that i do full grip or mixed and the thumb(s) knuckle digs into my quad every time. maybe its just me but when it gets over 300 and i go to the straps w/thumbless grip i just love the DL. no grip issues or quad bruises. sure i scrape my shins now and again but who can feel it with all the heavy lifting going on.

anyway thats my story.
 
<div>
(vagrant @ Feb. 10 2007,22:21)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">JP, have you considered a bit of extra posterior chain work to help those deads out?  Maybe a bit of muscle imbalance causing the hammys to tighten up?

And I have to do manly stretches between every set of squats and after every deadlift set too so I don't get too tight afterwards.

I call them manly stretches because saying, &quot;yoga poses&quot; sounds just a little feminine.

Stretching after workouts is good...remember.  Don't wait until the next day when you are stiff.</div>
Yeah, I have been doing alot of stretching. I slept on the couch last night, and I feel fine this morning. I gotta buy a new bed. My wife is complaining too.

Good advice, I am going to bump the stretching up. I do one move i like, lay on back facing ceiling, with arms straight out. pull one knee to chest then twist and touch ground while keeping upper torso straight --- good stretch!
 
Yeah, I never felt the skin sliding off. One thing I've noticed due to my long torso I guess, is that I lift with the bar against my shins regularly but over the tops of my feet doing sumo. I would have thought it would be the other way, but it's not.
 
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