Cutting with HST

Chris,

To some extent you are correct, however when cutting the macros can vary from person to person and maybe the low carb / higher fat macros works better for you as it did work for you last time.

What is your protein intake, I would recommend this is a minimum of 300g per day when cutting (1.5g per lb of body weight) as getting more calories from protein helps retain more lean mass plus there is the thermic effect from a higher protein intake as protein takes a bit more energy to digest than carbs or fats. For example 300g of protein = 1200 calories, 50g of carbs = 200 calories which leaves you with 66.6g of fats = 600 calories = P @ 60%, C @ 10% and F @ 30%.

AFAIK when you consume carbohydrates, your body converts them to glycogen, which is then stored in the muscles for energy. For every g of glycogen stored, you gain somewhere in the region of 3g of water.
 
Chris,

Further to my previous post I have just seen your edited post so ignore the above in respect of the 50g of carbs (clearly I did not read your post correctly), I would still make sure your protein intake is at least 1.5g per lb of body weight then I would work out the carbs and fats however you want.
 
When are you having this second meal? According to Kiefer on backloading, when you wake, your body is in a fat burning "state". As little as 20g of carbs shuts this down and revert your body back to burning carbs instead of fat, which is why it's important to keep under 20g until after your workout...protein or omega fats only. It isn't just about the small amount of carbs/calories during the day that's causing weight issues, it's that you're stalling the fat burning that you should be keeping going all day long.
I'm really surprised that you're not able to hammer out all your reps, considering that you're getting ample carbs post workout (you are eating the bulk of your carbs post workout, right?) Getting enough sleep? Stress? Regular bowel movements? On any medication?
Lots of water...all your carbs post workout, and I'd go back up to 2300 or 2500 cal a day..no more than 20g carbs pre workout and the rest of your calories post workout. I'm currently at 2500 and my weight is 155lbs @ 6'1" and my fat is coming off (but usually goes back in again every weekend...I have an indulgent personality)
 
charr said:
Hi Wungun.

I all ready check most of what you have on the list with regards carb backloading. The only thing that is different is I'm having around 50g of carbs on my second meal also. Surely that can't make much of a difference?

Leonardo. I had my blood work checked a few months ago. They did everything except testosterone. It all came back fine.

gbglifter. I measure and count everything I eat. Plus I eat the same thing everyday which stops things getting complicated (apart from Sat and sometimes sun). All calculations say that I should be losing weight rapidly but I haven't lost anything in the last 4 weeks. According to calculations I have a 2700 calorie maintenance at my height weight and activity level. 3 HST workouts per week plus 2 cardio. At 2000 cals a day I am at a 700 calorie deficit per day.

Also I am 3 - 4 reps off all my 10 rep maxes now. Which is where I was before my bulk. Does that mean the bulk has been a waste?

Thanks
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Jester said:
Not to mention over a week ... for something like cauliflower - who cares, but if it's rice, then 7x 1/4 cup variation is 1.5 cups over the course of a week. Potatoes being 1/3 bigger than you think they are etc.
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Rice is a huge carb source...if you're over by 1.5 cups a week, that's almost 1000cal and over 200g of carbs!
 
As for the nay sayers here, and that's pretty much everyone...lol, Char, download the fucking backloading book off torrents and follow it for 6 weeks!! If it works for YOU, at 2500cal a day, then maybe people will open their fucking eyes and stop being so narrow minded...lol
If it doesn't work, then you're no worse off than you are now...and I'll kindly refrain from spouting off about backloading on here forever! Haha...
If you follow it (being mindful that you can't just shovel shit in your mouth, like how it's brought up in the book once or twice), and you don't get your strength back, and you don't start posting up new PR's AND you don't gain/maintain muscle while losing fat, I will eat my hat!

As far as the thermal dynamics theory...cmon! Obviously there is more to it than that...it isn't always calories in, calories out.
If, for example, you were able to precisely calculate your daily cal maintenance...say 3000cal...
You think it makes no difference at all when you eat your 3000cal?
How 'bout 3000cal just before bed? Or 300 for breakfast, 300 for lunch and 2400 right before bed? 3000 for breakfast and none for the rest of the day? Or ten 300 cal meals spread thruout the day...? Or 3000 pre workout and none after...
 
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wungun said:
Rice is a huge carb source...if you're over by 1.5 cups a week, that's almost 1000cal and over 200g of carbs!
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That's my point ...

wungun said:
As for the nay sayers here, and that's pretty much everyone...lol, Char, download the fucking backloading book off torrents and follow it for 6 weeks!! If it works for YOU, at 2500cal a day, then maybe people will open their fucking eyes and stop being so narrow minded...lol
If it doesn't work, then you're no worse off than you are now...and I'll kindly refrain from spouting off about backloading on here forever! Haha...
If you follow it (being mindful that you can't just shovel shit in your mouth, like how it's brought up in the book once or twice), and you don't get your strength back, and you don't start posting up new PR's AND you don't gain/maintain muscle while losing fat, I will eat my hat!
Click to expand...

Choosing meal-timing over physics is really awkward ...

@charr - Google up Rapid Fat Loss - pdf.
 
wungun said:
As for the nay sayers here, and that's pretty much everyone...lol, Char, download the fucking backloading book off torrents and follow it for 6 weeks!! If it works for YOU, at 2500cal a day, then maybe people will open their fucking eyes and stop being so narrow minded...lol
If it doesn't work, then you're no worse off than you are now...and I'll kindly refrain from spouting off about backloading on here forever! Haha...
If you follow it (being mindful that you can't just shovel shit in your mouth, like how it's brought up in the book once or twice), and you don't get your strength back, and you don't start posting up new PR's AND you don't gain/maintain muscle while losing fat, I will eat my hat!
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You should have a very tasteful hat to be so confident...

Kidding. I'm also a skeptical but I'm following closely this method. Maybe it works. Who knows...
 
leonardopm said:
You should have a very tasteful hat to be so confident...

Kidding. I'm also a skeptical but I'm following closely this method. Maybe it works. Who knows...
Click to expand...
Haha!
Well, at least you're seeing for yourself, and that's commendable...good for you!
Don't just take my word for it! Lol

How long have you been on it? Did you read his book?
 
The never ending but often repeating thread. Important points in 230 answers:

1. Get T checked.
2. If abnormally low, get it fixed.
3. If normal, determine calories expended to maintain and deduct from that, eating what you can stick to with an emphasis on protein and good fats.
4. Train for strength.
5. Measure results in months, not days.
6. Forget the rest of the BS.
 
Hi Wungun.

I have just downloaded the book I haven't got around to reading it yet so I can't pass any judgement. But reading the first few pages the below points caught my eye.

Carb Back-Loading Cliff Notes
1. Shift calories to later in the day, eating lighter in the
morning and early afternoon, and feast at night. This
may include skipping breakfast.
2. Keep carbs at an absolute minimum throughout the
day until training.
3. Train in the afternoon, at around 5pm or so.
4. Start ingesting carbs after your training session, up to
30 minutes later.
5. Continue eating carbs throughout the night.

This is exactly what I am already doing. I fast and I take my first meal around 5pm which is most of my carbs. (150g). My second and last meal is around 11:30pm. There is about 50g of carbs in this meal.

It shouldn't really be a surprise that I'm losing strength as my calories are low. I didn't expect to lose so much strength though
 
wungun said:
As far as the thermal dynamics theory...cmon! Obviously there is more to it than that...it isn't always calories in, calories out.
If, for example, you were able to precisely calculate your daily cal maintenance...say 3000cal...
You think it makes no difference at all when you eat your 3000cal?
How 'bout 3000cal just before bed? Or 300 for breakfast, 300 for lunch and 2400 right before bed? 3000 for breakfast and none for the rest of the day? Or ten 300 cal meals spread thruout the day...? Or 3000 pre workout and none after...
Click to expand...

Please don't go down this road of claiming that timing magically alters the amount you can eat.

Obviously timing can be optimized. Everyone knows this. Eat when protein synthesis is raised and you'll lose more fat, less muscle. But you won't lose more or less weight than eating the same calories at a different time of day. All timing does, when properly planned, is help retain muscle mass on a cut.

I really hope you're not going down that road though, of claiming you can eat as much as you want as long as you do it at the magical golden hour, and still lose weight.

And clearly optimizing meal timing isn't going to make as much of an impact on someone at 20% or higher bodyfat as it will on someone trying to strip off the last vestiges of bodyfat. When you are 20% or higher, the body isn't going to hang on to the fat as hard as when you are leaner. So for fatter individuals, better to just focus on the correct amount of calories than some esoteric dieting scheme.
 
That's basically the premise of the whole principal.... That you lose fat, maintain and gain muscle with out having to go to extremes with the calories... I obviously must be in a deficit, but you could fool the hell outta me!
I didn't claim that you can eat as much as you want... But in so many words, the book does. And that's beyond common sense. Many other factors, I find, are beneficial with backloading, beside whether or not timing matters or if in fact, if it even works at all...
For instance, having an absolute feast after a workout is very rewarding and positive reinforcing. NOT having to pick away at carrot sticks or celery and starve myself while skipping an abundance of carbs, with zero energy and strength, does wonders for the moral and motivation...
And feeling like I'm cheating with every meal, when in fact I'm actually not (you've read about my meals, surely!) , is a huge plus. I don't have much will power, so this setup works great for me.
I have no idea where my "maintenance" is right now, but I started at around 1800cal a day, and gradually INCREASED to 2400-2500 a day, and the scales say I'm still going down every morning....
I dunno what "magic" I'm doing, but whatever it is, it's easy to stick to! By late spring, I want to see noticeable gains in strength and size while keeping my body fat well within check... So far so good!
 
That's the problem, the book is automatically retarded if it thinks you can lose weight while eating at maintenance or a calorie excess. That is obviously stupid.

You cannot create or destroy energy or matter, regardless of what diet you use. Energy does not just disappear. If you eat more than you can burn, it gets stored as fat. If you eat enough to maintain, you maintain.

Magic does not exist.
 
wungun said:
That's basically the premise of the whole principal.... That you lose fat, maintain and gain muscle with out having to go to extremes with the calories... I obviously must be in a deficit, but you could fool the hell outta me!
I didn't claim that you can eat as much as you want... But in so many words, the book does. And that's beyond common sense. Many other factors, I find, are beneficial with backloading, beside whether or not timing matters or if in fact, if it even works at all...
For instance, having an absolute feast after a workout is very rewarding and positive reinforcing. NOT having to pick away at carrot sticks or celery and starve myself while skipping an abundance of carbs, with zero energy and strength, does wonders for the moral and motivation...
And feeling like I'm cheating with every meal, when in fact I'm actually not (you've read about my meals, surely!) , is a huge plus. I don't have much will power, so this setup works great for me.
I have no idea where my "maintenance" is right now, but I started at around 1800cal a day, and gradually INCREASED to 2400-2500 a day, and the scales say I'm still going down every morning....
I dunno what "magic" I'm doing, but whatever it is, it's easy to stick to! By late spring, I want to see noticeable gains in strength and size while keeping my body fat well within check... So far so good!
Click to expand...

Height, weight, age, waist, bf% = ?

Strength levels for bench, squat, deadlift, chins, military = ?


Sounds tremendously like;

a) Newbie gains (no, these are not time dependent, they are load dependent)

b) Your BMR was quite suppressed previously.

c) Your p-ratio doesn't suck.
 
6'1, 155lbs, 44 years old, 31" waist, bf%...?
5rm Bench 160lbs
Hack squat 220lbs
Dead 230lbs
Chins Bw + 70lbs 5rm
Military 100lbs
All free weights

3 years ago, my bench started at 70lbs 10rm

P ratio... Which is what exactly..? Lol
 
Totentanz said:
That's the problem, the book is automatically retarded if it thinks you can lose weight while eating at maintenance or a calorie excess. That is obviously stupid.

You cannot create or destroy energy or matter, regardless of what diet you use. Energy does not just disappear. If you eat more than you can burn, it gets stored as fat. If you eat enough to maintain, you maintain.

Magic does not exist.
Click to expand...
Not lose weight... Lose fat. Ideally, you should stay the same weight, but I'd imagine initially, fat loss would surpass muscle growth...
So I can put away even more calories than my 2500 daily would suggest. But as I mentioned, I'd like to see my bf get down low... I'm probably getting to the point where my metabolism and intake are aligning (lower weight, same cal) and I'll have to recalc my intake...
 
P-ratio is genetically determined ratio of muscle : fat gains at optimal conditions.

I would say that you are 100% still in 'newbie' territory based on those #s. Ride it while you can.
 
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