Tryingtologin
Member
It depends. If I psych myself out just as I'm about to pull it off the floor and it won't move, I'll take a few deep breaths, stamp my feet and grab the bar with a bit of oomph. If it still won't come up, I'm done.
250kg deadlift
- Thread starter Jester
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HST_Rihad
Active Member
I didn't say it's not legs moving the load, because legs it is. It's just that emphasis shifts from quad+hams+glutes to hams+glutes with less quad involvement. Lower back muscles are above the loin, and they never chime in with the legs to partake in lifting the load. Saying that lower back is somehow involved in lifting the load is stupid, while all it does is keep your torso from rounding, which would be rather injury prone, although some folks such as Konstantinow keep their lower back rounded (and less so legs stiffed) at all times, this is what helps him lift huge weights.
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This.
Physics matter. Who knew?
He does that for all his 1RMs, at least that I've seen. Arguably that first 'attempt' isn't an actual, you know, attempt ... ?
Where did I say anything about it being primarily a lower back movement when you stiff leg it? I said you have to use "more back for sure' and that you don't get very much leg drive. This is true.
Are you going to say that rack pulls only really hit the hams and glutes as well?
AderynGlas
Member
It seems like each approach to the bar helped prepare him mentally and by the 3rd approach he had got over the 'fear' from the look of the weights and had a bit more confidence... It's the only thing I can think of as the way he lifted it on his 3rd attempt kinda suggested he should have physically been able to on the 1st easily...
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HST_Rihad
Active Member
Rack pulls are essentially partial DL. As anything employing heavier loads, they put more training stress on joints and ligaments. Other than that, same muscles are worked as in DL: legs, glutes as primary movers, lower back as torso stabilizer, traps and forearms for holding the weight.
You aren't really trying to say that lower back lifts the load in rack pulls? If you keep your lower back rounded as Konstantinov above, then it's almost exclusively legs (+glutes) lifting. If you keep your lower back up tight then again it's not contributing to the mileage
Lower back DOES of course get stressed along with upper back, arms, neck, and earlapsp.s.: this is all too reminiscent of the middle trap role in bent over rows we discussed.
Sorry, but what stiffed legs do is put more work on your hams and glutes, lower back gets the stressing either way.
I know that at 250 lbs deads I'm not even allowed to say this, but it's true
Rack pulls are essentially partial DL. As anything employing heavier loads, they put more training stress on joints and ligaments. Other than that, same muscles are worked as in DL: legs, glutes as primary movers, lower back as torso stabilizer, traps and forearms for holding the weight.
You aren't really trying to say that lower back lifts the load in rack pulls? If you keep your lower back rounded as Konstantinov above, then it's almost exclusively legs (+glutes) lifting. If you keep your lower back up tight then again it's not contributing to the mileage
p.s.: this is all too reminiscent of the middle trap role in bent over rows we discussed.
Just make up your mind about what actual point you're trying to make here.
First you want to say that legs are more involved in SLDL. Then it's quads are less involved in SLDL. And now let's bring in Rack Pulls because this wasn't getting off-point enough.
Re: Konstantinov - his lower back is a mover in that deadlift. Rounded back --> straightened back requires contraction of the erecti (amongst others), and in so doing that it is bearing a significant portion of the total load. Arguing about the usage of the term "primary" is where you tripped up last time, so maybe we stop applying that descriptor.
"Lower back DOES get stressed" doesn't really mean anything, physiologically speaking. Stress = tension. Movement = contraction.
Tangent: surely you can deadlift more than 250lbs with that leg press ... ?
HST_Rihad
Active Member
Legs are quads+hams+glutes. As you "unbend" your knee you use quads, as you "unbend" your torso you use hams & glutes.
My RDL was 120 kg / 265 lbs x 4 a year ago, haven't done them ever since. I might when I get bored with squats/leg presses, but then I'd need to ditch shrugs. Nice workout time economy BTW.
You lost me here. Will you hold a BB in your hands while standing, now round your back, the BB will go down an inch or two. Now tighten up your lower back like you should as if before squatting, the BB goes up an inch of two. This is the plane of motion lower back muscles provide us with.
Stressed in the same sense as traps get stressed while doing deads, although it's not them lifting the load. Hopefully we agree this far. I'm just not fine with Totentanz' remark that stiff-legged DL "use the back a lot more and get very little drive from the legs." when in reality they don't "use" lower back to lift the weight, they still use legs, distributing load more preferentially between quads/hams/glutes.
My RDL was 120 kg / 265 lbs x 4 a year ago, haven't done them ever since. I might when I get bored with squats/leg presses, but then I'd need to ditch shrugs. Nice workout time economy BTW.
The lower back should be proving more ROM than that. Either lack of flexibility or you're doing/judging something wrong there. The erectors are long muscles that contract substantially. I suspect you might be over-attributing to the glutes and hamstrings here. They don't stretch/contract the same way quads do or anything, but it's more than you realise.
I'm not sure you understand Totez' use of the word "drive", from your comment above.
I'm not sure you understand Totez' use of the word "drive", from your comment above.
HST_Rihad
Active Member
I think you're confusing the different motions provided by lower back and glutes/hams.
Extending lower back happens when you loosen you lower back without involving your pelvis at all - a couple inches at most.
Go beyond that and you start bending in your pelvis, and thus, using glutes/hams/other back of leg muscles
nativetroutbum
Member
I now think that the first attempt was more to get a feel for the load; a sort-of warm-up pull but not with all cylinders firing; then the second was probably a bit more of a real pull but with maybe not the best set-up, or something didn't feel quite right; and finally, after a quick mental psych-up, it was time to unleash merry hell and get that darn thing off the ground.
My warmups are to get me in that head space. If I go for a max lift and fail then I generally get really psyched and usually have another go; but I have yet to make a failed max lift on the second attempt. I wonder if regularly taking creatine might help with recovery for this sort of thing? I haven't taken any in ages.
nativetroutbum
Member
Well this is terrific. I tell you that you misunderstood/misjudged something and once again I get a reply that is you telling me the inverse.
Just leave it be, trying to help you is not worth the frustration.
Having seen him do a few of the 1RM attempts, he tends to have that mini/pseudo-attempt and go back, hit the wall literally and then complete the lift a moment or two later. Weird but it works for him somehow.
HST_Rihad
Active Member
You said it's lower back lifting the load, while it's legs.
No problem, if this makes you feel better.