A diet please?

Discussion in 'Diet & Nutrition' started by Matt Daniels, Oct 20, 2006.

  1. Bulldog

    Bulldog Active Member

    I agree with Dan too.  Keep it as simple as possible.  If you don't you will be setting yourself up for failure.  But if you are interested in calculating your BMR and all that good stuff the attached spreadsheet might help.  I have one for cutting also. If anyone is interested let me know and I will post it as well.
     
  2. mindstar

    mindstar New Member

    <div>
    (Matt Daniels @ Oct. 21 2006,01:58)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Meal 1:2 hard boiled eggs,1-2 pieces of toast(depending on bread) and 1 1/4 cups of skim milk
    Meal 2:! cup 2% milk an fruit
    Meal 3:Sandwich of some sort with some type of protein source in it.
    Meal 4:protein shake with bread or fruits
    Meal 5:High protein/carb meal
    Meal 6:protein shake w/milk

    I'm quite sure I should be eating more especially because im using X-Factor which means I could eat more.I should probably be shooting for atleast 2700 calories every day.I was using the alri diet as somewhat of a guideline but its hard to follow as it has a lot of protein bars/shakes in it which isnt exactly something I can afford unless someone knows where you can get bulk amounts of protein for cheap.I usually just buy a 5 pound tub of ON Whey protein for 45 plus tax and its has about 77 servings(so having 3-4 servings a day isn't very cost efficent) Also...what should I have for my pre and post workout shakes I'm just gonna try an eat supper earlier then use it as fuel for the gym,but what should I be having post workout...the shake the alri diet had was made up of very little carbs which from what ive acquired thus far in knowledge should not be so.</div>
    meal 1 upon waking: shake with milk
    meal 2, 1 hour later: oatmeal and egg whites
    meal 3, 3 hours later: brown rice, veggies, and chicken
    meal 4, 3 hours later: sandwhich and protein? Tuna? veggies
    meal 5-PrWO shake with water
    Meal 6-PWO shake with water
    Meal 7-Chicken, Brown rice and veggies

    meal 8, before bed: cottage cheese.

    Use www.fitday.com to track your calories and aim for 200g of complete protein per day, split over the meals as well as quality carbohydrate. Cut sugar and booze (if you drink) and eat regularly every day. Get your sleep and train hard.
     
  3. stevejones

    stevejones Member

    <div>
    (Bulldog @ Oct. 26 2006,16:29)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I agree with Dan too.  Keep it as simple as possible.  If you don't you will be setting yourself up for failure.  But if you are interested in calculating your BMR and all that good stuff the attached spreadsheet might help.  I have one for cutting also. If anyone is interested let me know and I will post it as well.</div>
    Hey that's cool. Post the one for cutting please.

    Thanks
     
  4. scientific muscle

    scientific muscle New Member

    <div>
    (Dan Moore @ Oct. 26 2006,08:15)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
    (Matt Daniels @ Oct. 20 2006,15:45)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I was just wondering if anyone could make a diet or help me make a diet im a studen as you guys know so some things are hard to eat an make so keep that in mind...also I wanna try an stick to 2 scoops of protein per day cause I have to pay for my own protein so its kind of expensive along with other supps and a gym membership.Here are my stats

    Age:16
    Weight:140
    Height:5',5&quot;
    Bodyfat Percentage:12%(will probably go to a max of 18)
    Bodytype:Endomorphic
    Training type:HST

    Goal:Try to be 160-170 for march/april cutting.</div>
    Well, it's honestly a lot simpler than what is being put forth so far.

    Screw all the counting of cals and macros as you don't need too.

    Screw the idea that you need to eat 6X day, cause you don't need too.

    Simple remedy.

    Training Days

    Eat as big of a breakfast as you can stuff in your face, don't care if it's oatmeal, eggs, pancakes or whatever.

    At lunch do the same thing, again whatever you can shoove in your face.

    At dinner, eat a decent meal but not so much your gonna pop.

    Bedtime snack-Milk and PB&amp;J sandwich.

    Save your protein scoops for pre or post training.

    Non training days just eat 3 sensible meals a day and your bedtime snack.

    At this point in time there is no reason to overcomplicate this, just do this and Train and you will grow.</div>
    Excellent advice, that is exactly what I did, and made great lean gains. Then I went overboard with the snacking part and got a little fat. After my cut I will do basically as Dan describes.
     
  5. Matt Daniels

    Matt Daniels New Member

    Alright well the diets I have seen seem pretty good and I really realy really appreciate all the feed back and help I've been getting and this seems to be the most effective thing I have thus far in terms of what to eat.

    Meal 1:2 eggs(hard boiled due to the fact they are easy to take around)2 pieces of whole wheat bread and 1 and a half cups of milk.
    Meal 2:2 cups of 2%milk with a nutrigrain bar
    Meal 3:Chicken/Tuna/Lean Beef with pasta or rice or a sweet potato.
    Meal 4:protein with sandwich
    Meal 5:2 scoops protein with something sugary i guess.
    Meal 6:A meal similar to meal 3
    Meal 7:2 cups skim milk possibly with oats or another sandwich

    I'm not sure how good that may seem but I think its close to the amount of calories I should be getting to grow.Do you guys think that seems good enough.I would try dan moores idea but that wont happen due to the fact im usually under a restricted time limit for school or work or something.
     
  6. dkm1987

    dkm1987 New Member

    <div>
    (Matt Daniels @ Oct. 27 2006,08:54)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Alright well the diets I have seen seem pretty good and I really realy really appreciate all the feed back and help I've been getting and this seems to be the most effective thing I have thus far in terms of what to eat.

    Meal 1:2 eggs(hard boiled due to the fact they are easy to take around)2 pieces of whole wheat bread and 1 and a half cups of milk.
    Meal 2:2 cups of 2%milk with a nutrigrain bar
    Meal 3:Chicken/Tuna/Lean Beef with pasta or rice or a sweet potato.
    Meal 4:protein with sandwich
    Meal 5:2 scoops protein with something sugary i guess.
    Meal 6:A meal similar to meal 3
    Meal 7:2 cups skim milk possibly with oats or another sandwich

    I'm not sure how good that may seem but I think its close to the amount of calories I should be getting to grow.Do you guys think that seems good enough.I would try dan moores idea but that wont happen due to the fact im usually under a restricted time limit for school or work or something.</div>
    So you are under a restriction in time but you are gonna try and feed yourself 7 times in a day?

    If that's what you are planning on doing then yes, it looks fine as long as it's enough total calories.
     
  7. bluejacket

    bluejacket New Member

    keep in mind, like almost everything, personal habits/pref. can play a big role. if your used to a couple of big meals each day then 6-7 smaller ones (while adding up to the same cals) will take some getting used to. the same is true of the opposite.

    personally i was never able to eat alot (relative) at any one sitting and for a long time had serious trouble putting in the cals to grow in 3-4 meals a day. always felt too full and sick at every meal. switching to 6+ a day is easier for ME to get in even more cals yet avoid my problem with stuffing myself. my old lifting partner on the other hand only ate 2-3x a day but man could he eat, you would have thought he did a stint in prison the way he horded and shoveled his food. so......

    what works for some sounds like folly to others so go with your plan and stick with it for a while but dont be afraid to morph it into the one thats most effective for you and your life/goals. the important part is get the cals in, how you do it is up to you.

    good luck
     
  8. Matt Daniels

    Matt Daniels New Member

    well ive always heard eating to much in one sitting is bad as your body cant use all the nutrients so by splitting up meals you use all nutrients
     
  9. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    <div>
    (Matt Daniels @ Oct. 27 2006,15:16)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">well ive always heard eating to much in one sitting is bad as your body cant use all the nutrients so by splitting up meals you use all nutrients</div>
    Not true.
     
  10. Matt Daniels

    Matt Daniels New Member

    So I could just gobble the hell out of breakfast lunch and supper and be good to go :S
     
  11. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    <div>
    (Matt Daniels @ Oct. 28 2006,01:43)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">So I could just gobble the hell out of breakfast lunch and supper and be good to go :S</div>
    Yes. The whole myth that you must break your feeding up into nineteen and a half meals, feeding yourself every five minutes or else you will lose all your muscle is a load of crap. Even if you were feeding six or seven times a day, you will still have food in your stomach when you have your next meal, so it will be more or less the same as if you had eaten three big meals. The only times your stomach will be completely empty would be in the morning after you wake up.
     
  12. Bulldog

    Bulldog Active Member

    <div>
    (stevejones @ Oct. 26 2006,20:54)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
     
  13. Bulldog

    Bulldog Active Member

    <div>
    (Totentanz @ Oct. 28 2006,08:34)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
    (Matt Daniels @ Oct. 28 2006,01:43)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">So I could just gobble the hell out of breakfast lunch and supper and be good to go :S</div>
    Yes.  The whole myth that you must break your feeding up into nineteen and a half meals, feeding yourself every five minutes or else you will lose all your muscle is a load of crap.  Even if you were feeding six or seven times a day, you will still have food in your stomach when you have your next meal, so it will be more or less the same as if you had eaten three big meals.  The only times your stomach will be completely empty would be in the morning after you wake up.</div>
    I think this is something that is different for everyone.  But I  can't handle the larger meals when I only eat 3 times per day and I put on more fat.  If I eat smaller meals more frequently I believe my body uses the nutrition more efficiently and it helps keep my metabolism elevated.  I notice a significant difference when I split my meals up into 5 or 6 feedings and I tend to stay leaner than if I only eat 3 times per day.  Again, I think this is something that is different for everyone and you need to find what works best for you.  I also think this is something that will change as you get older.

    But at 16 years old, if you are working out regularly and are as active outside the gym as most 16 year olds, just eat as much healthy food as you can whenever you get the chance.  I have a 17 year old son and he eats like a horse.  But with football and his weight training he isn't putting on any muscle because he can't get enough food into his system.  He is just maintianing because of his high activity level.
     
  14. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    I already posted them in another thread a while ago, but there are tons of studies on pubmed that debunk the idea that frequent meals effect metabolism. They don't. They effect hunger and satiety, maybe, but not metabolism. So yeah, whatever fits into your schedule and allows you to maintain your diet is what you should do.
     
  15. Matt Daniels

    Matt Daniels New Member

    Well then ill probably just eatin a shitload of food for breakfast lunch and supper..have my pw shakes and then a bedtime snack.
     
  16. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    There you go, and when you count all that, it ends up being six feedings a day, so you're actually still following that &quot;rule&quot; about frequent feedings. Personally, when bulking, sometimes I end up eating as many as ten meals a day, and when cutting, there are some days where I only eat once or twice. As long as you hit your total calories for the day (within a reasonable margin of error, since calorie counts are just estimations anyway...) and you get plenty of protein, you should be fine.
     
  17. faz

    faz Active Member

    Effect of the pattern of food intake on human energy metabolism.

    Verboeket-van de Venne WP, Westerterp KR, Kester AD.

    Department of Human Biology, University of Limburg, Maastricht, The Netherlands.

    The pattern of food intake can affect the regulation of body weight and lipogenesis. We studied the effect of meal frequency on human energy expenditure (EE) and its components. During 1 week ten male adults (age 25-61 years, body mass index 20.7-30.4 kg/m2) were fed to energy balance at two meals/d (gorging pattern) and during another week at seven meals/d (nibbling pattern). For the first 6 d of each week the food was provided at home, followed by a 36 h stay in a respiration chamber. O2 consumption and CO2 production (and hence EE) were calculated over 24 h. EE in free-living conditions was measured over the 2 weeks with doubly-labelled water (average daily metabolic rate, ADMR). The three major components of ADMR are basal metabolic rate (BMR), diet-induced thermogenesis (DIT) and EE for physical activity (ACT). There was no significant effect of meal frequency on 24 h EE or ADMR. Furthermore, BMR and ACT did not differ between the two patterns. DIT was significantly elevated in the gorging pattern, but this effect was neutralized by correction for the relevant time interval. With the method used for determination of DIT no significant effect of meal frequency on the contribution of DIT to ADMR could be demonstrated.


    And another:

    Br J Nutr. 1997 Apr;77 Suppl 1:S57-70. Links
    Meal frequency and energy balance.

    * Bellisle F,
    * McDevitt R,
    * Prentice AM.

    INSERM U341, Hotel Dieu de Paris, France.

    Several epidemiological studies have observed an inverse relationship between people's habitual frequency of eating and body weight, leading to the suggestion that a 'nibbling' meal pattern may help in the avoidance of obesity. A review of all pertinent studies shows that, although many fail to find any significant relationship, the relationship is consistently inverse in those that do observe a relationship. However, this finding is highly vulnerable to the probable confounding effects of post hoc changes in dietary patterns as a consequence of weight gain and to dietary under-reporting which undoubtedly invalidates some of the studies. We conclude that the epidemiological evidence is at best very weak, and almost certainly represents an artefact. A detailed review of the possible mechanistic explanations for a metabolic advantage of nibbling meal patterns failed to reveal significant benefits in respect of energy expenditure. Although some short-term studies suggest that the thermic effect of feeding is higher when an isoenergetic test load is divided into multiple small meals, other studies refute this, and most are neutral. More importantly, studies using whole-body calorimetry and doubly-labelled water to assess total 24 h energy expenditure find no difference between nibbling and gorging. Finally, with the exception of a single study, there is no evidence that weight loss on hypoenergetic regimens is altered by meal frequency. We conclude that any effects of meal pattern on the regulation of body weight are likely to be mediated through effects on the food intake side of the energy balance equation.
     
  18. faz

    faz Active Member

    Thermogenesis in humans after varying meal time frequency]

    [Article in German]

    Wolfram G, Kirchgessner M, Muller HL, Hollomey S.

    To a group of 8 healthy persons a slightly hypocaloric diet with protein (13% of energy), carbohydrates (46% of energy) and fat (41% of energy) was given as one meal or as five meals in a change-over trial. Each person was 2 weeks on each regimen. Under the conditions of slight undernutrition and neutral temperature the balances of nitrogen, carbon and energy were assessed in 7-day collection periods, and according to 48-hour measurements of gaseous exchange (carbon-nitrogen balance method) by the procedures of indirect calorimetry. Changes of body weight were statistically not significant. At isocaloric supply of metabolizable energy with exactly the same foods in different meal frequencies no differences were found in the retention of carbon and energy. Urinary nitrogen excretion was slightly greater with a single daily meal, indicating influences on protein metabolism. The protein-derived energy was compensated by a decrease in the fat oxidation. The heat production calculated by indirect calorimetry was not significantly different with either meal frequency. Water, sodium and potassium balances were not different. The plasma concentrations of cholesterol and uric acid were not influenced by meal frequency, glucose and triglycerides showed typical behaviour depending on the time interval to the last meal. The results demonstrate that the meal frequency did not influence the energy balance.


    Meal frequency influences circulating hormone levels but not lipogenesis rates in humans.

    Jones PJ, Namchuk GL, Pederson RA.

    Division of Human Nutrition, University of British Columbia, Vancouver, Canada.

    To determine whether human lipogenesis is influenced by the frequency of meal consumption, 12 subjects were divided into two groups and fed isocaloric nutritionally adequate liquid diets over 3 days, either as three larger diurnal (n = 6) or as six small, evenly spaced (n = 6) meals per day. On day 2 (08:00 h) of each diet period, 0.7 g deuterium (D) oxide/kg body water was administered and blood was collected every 4 hours over 48 hours for measurement of plasma insulin and glucose-dependent insulinotropic polypeptide (GIP) levels. At each time point, the incorporation of D into plasma triglyceride fatty acid (TG-FA) was also determined by isotope ratio mass spectrometry after TG-FA extraction and combustion/reduction. Insulin and GIP levels were elevated over daytime periods in subjects fed three versus six meals per day. Contribution of de novo synthesis to total TG-FA production was not significantly different for days 2 and 3 in subjects consuming three (6.56% +/- 1.32% and 6.64% +/- 2.08%, respectively) and six (7.67% +/- 2.29% and 7.88% +/- 1.46%, respectively) meals per day. Net TG-FA synthesis rates over days 2 and 3 were 1.47 +/- 0.33 and 1.55 +/- 0.53 g/d, respectively, for subjects fed three meals per day, and 1.64 +/- 0.47 and 1.69 +/- 0.30 g/d for subjects fed six meals per day. These findings suggest that consuming fewer but larger daily meals is not accompanied by increases in TG-FA synthesis, despite the observation of hormonal peaks.
     
  19. People who support the six meal a day, or whatever philosophy have, I think, a valid argument against these studies. The studies measure weight change (not measured in fat gain/loss vs. muscle gain/loss) over a short period of time, with no exercise.

    The people who eat this way do it in order to maximixe muscle fat ratios in conjunction with exercise over extended periods -- entire bulking or cutting cycles. Frankly, these studies aren't valid under these scenarios. They may still be 100% correct. That's not what I'm arguing. But I do question their validity to body builders especially.
     
  20. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    Okay, well post some studies supporting six or more meals a day then. Exercise is going to improve partitioning far more than any kind of meal-spreading-out plan could. If you want to look up some studies, just check www.pubmed.com
     

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