A New Idea About Hst?

Totentanz said:
I don't think anyone is trying to be intentionally malicious, it's just that you've been told what is known to work. You chose to ignore that and basically claim that HST is doesn't work, even though you haven't actually (it would seem) tried to use the program properly. People tend to get a little annoyed when they take the time to give advice only to be ignored.
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Actually I tried the original HST. I could not increase the weights when that time came. And I think like this: How do you know that my variation does not work if you have not tried it? My current program (which I invented myself) enabled me to raise the weight. Maybe I'll get back here with an update when I have tried it further. So far, it's the only thing that has ever worked for me.
 
Stating that someone can't know whether a program will work unless they try it is a fallacious argument. You really should try to avoid those. For example, I don't have to drink a quart of bleach to know that it is harmful, or get my head chopped off to know whether that would cause my death or not. We don't need to personally experience everything to know whether it is a good idea or not. That's what research is for. We read up on the research others have already done and use that to formulate an idea of whether something will work or not.

For example, with your proposed routine, we can look at research already done on muscle growth. Ideally, we would look at many different studies. Luckily, someone already did that for us. That's what Bryan did when he came up with HST. If that's not current enough for you, then Wernbom's paper analyzed a ton of studies. His paper pretty much shows that a routine as you laid out won't do much since it doesn't come anywhere near meeting the minimum volume threshold needed for appreciable growth.
 
They did a study with 500 persons, using the same bodybuilding program. The most successful ones increased their strength with 250 %, and their muscles got 60 % bigger. Pretty much what you would expect, right? But wait, the least successful ones increased their strength with 0 %, and their muscles got 2 % smaller. Yes, that's right, their muscles shrinked from training... Other studies has shown that for some people, training makes them weaker.

Thus, YOU cannot know whether a program will work or not unless YOU try it. It's a galaxy of difference between drinking bleach/getting your head chopped off, and training.

And by the way, maybe it was not clear (and in that case it's my fault), but my goal with the first "new idea about HST" was not to build size, but strength (although I think it would have worked for size too, but let's limit it to strength). NOW, would you agree with me that for STRENGTH, it might work?
 
Please site the study showing that training makes some people weaker when calorie intake is sufficient.
 
Totentanz said:
Please site the study showing that training makes some people weaker when calorie intake is sufficient.
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I never memorize WHERE I read something, only WHAT it says.
And you're missing the point. The point is that everyone is different, and thus YOU have to try a training program to know if it works for YOU.
 
Some of the best studies and strength lifters come out of the Scandinavian area.

I would love to access that study you summarized. Can't you backtrack and find it?
 
Mikael Eriksson said:
It's hard to not sound arrogant when no one gets you, right?
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The reason no one 'gets you' is and correct me if I am wrong your proposed routine was to start at 75% of your 1 rep max with a single rep so if your bench press 1 rep max is 100 kgs then you would do a single at 75 kgs followed the next workout with a single at 80kgs, next workout a single at 85kgs etc, honestly why do you think you will elicit hypertrophy or strength with this protocol. I now understand you are trying to gain strength but if you going to do singles then you will need to be a hell of at lot closer to your 1 rep max than doing a single at your 10rm (75%), a single at your 8rm (80%), a single at your 5rm (85%) etc
 
mickc1965 said:
honestly why do you think you will elicit hypertrophy or strength with this protocol.
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Yes, as much as the 5's and 10's and 15's. Bryan says that you don't have to be close to your max, you only have to raise the weight. That means that when you start for example your 5's, your 5RM is 50 kg. But you start it with 37 kg, and you get results. You do ONLY 5, although you could do 10. My idea used the same pronciple, but with heavier weights and 1's.

As far as I have understood Bryan, there is something magical about ADDING weight, even if it is submaximal.
 
Mikael Eriksson said:
Yes, as much as the 5's and 10's and 15's. Bryan says that you don't have to be close to your max, you only have to raise the weight. That means that when you start for example your 5's, your 5RM is 50 kg. But you start it with 37 kg, and you get results. You do ONLY 5, although you could do 10. My idea used the same pronciple, but with heavier weights and 1's.

As far as I have understood Bryan, there is something magical about ADDING weight, even if it is submaximal.
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Believe me doing a 'single' rep at 75% of your 1rm is not the same as doing 15 reps at 75% of your 15, 10 or 5 rep maxes but if you want to believe that it is there appears to be nothing any of us can say to change your mind.

Why not post the routine that you did with the exercises and number of sets for further critique.
 
Mikael Eriksson said:
As far as I have understood Bryan, there is something magical about ADDING weight, even if it is submaximal.
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From the HST eBook:
There is a minimum threshold of what that muscle can lift that must be hit before you can actually cause any kind of micro-trauma to the muscle tissue itself. The minimum load necessary is highly dependent on the condition of the muscle at the time you are lifting. It is not just the absolute load that is important but the relative load compared to what that muscle has been conditioned to. 200 lbs will not be as effective for a guy who can bench 400 lbs as it is for a guy who can only bench 250.

In addition, even when you find the appropriate minimum load to induce hypertrophy, eventually the muscle will become conditioned to this load and it will no longer cause growth. This is what we refer to in HST as “repeated bout effect” and is why HST incorporates progressive load, which allows us to stay ahead of this curve. We will elaborate more on progressive load and staying ahead of the repeated bout effect in just a moment here.
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Adding weight is increasing the intensity to create a more potent stimulus. If you want to train singles, you can but you will need more volume. I used single training to go from a 405 to a 500lb (ugly) deadlift. To find a good volume for myself on singles I did 4-6 reps per workout in the 80%+ range and attempted to break my PR each workout 4 times a week. Deadlifting was really the only lift I focused on.

Now you can't yolo-only-liftheavy-4-evah, you are going to build up a lot of neural fatigue that you won't face in the 15-10 rep zone. Also its harder on your joints and more prone to acute injuries. Finally, it just doesn't induce a ton of hypertrophy. It is mainly neural adaptation and skill increases because of the increased specificity.

As soon as I went to a more balance routine my physique clearly improved.

Finally you will need a program that includes both strength training and hypertrophy training, I would suggest DUP (just the vanilla from the study) assuming your nutrition and recovery are on point.
 
adpowah said:
From the HST eBook:


Adding weight is increasing the intensity to create a more potent stimulus. If you want to train singles, you can but you will need more volume. I used single training to go from a 405 to a 500lb (ugly) deadlift. To find a good volume for myself on singles I did 4-6 reps per workout in the 80%+ range and attempted to break my PR each workout 4 times a week. Deadlifting was really the only lift I focused on.

Now you can't yolo-only-liftheavy-4-evah, you are going to build up a lot of neural fatigue that you won't face in the 15-10 rep zone. Also its harder on your joints and more prone to acute injuries. Finally, it just doesn't induce a ton of hypertrophy. It is mainly neural adaptation and skill increases because of the increased specificity.

As soon as I went to a more balance routine my physique clearly improved.

Finally you will need a program that includes both strength training and hypertrophy training, I would suggest DUP (just the vanilla from the study) assuming your nutrition and recovery are on point.
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I would probably give a more thorough conjugate/concurrent approach a go.

Not sold on dup in it's vanilla format.
 
Ok, thanks for all the input. Maybe I'll post my current program and results here in the future. I just want a little more "mileage" with it first.
 
Mikael Eriksson said:
Ok, thanks for all the input. Maybe I'll post my current program and results here in the future. I just want a little more "mileage" with it first.
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Why are you so hesitant to post your routine?

There are many on here that will assist if you will give them the information, it may seem that we are shooting you down but I can assure you we are not doing that. We just want you to succeed with HST by doing it the correct way rather than altering it too much and not getting the results you want.
 
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