Back To Hst After 6 Years. Previous Gains. New Goals And Concerns

Jester said:
Getting skinnier/losing bf is how we use the term, 'cutting'.
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That is partially true.

You can shred out without getting that soft skinny look. Cutting (losing fat with minimal LBM lose) for aesthetic purposes takes quite a while. It is a slow process. If you simply want to skinny down by losing weight and possibly end up with loose skin, that is a different matter entirely and is easily accomplished fairly quickly. In fact, you can skinny down to a cadaver (think prisoners of war). You cannot properly "cut" down to a cadaver. A proper cut will actually make you appear larger than you were before starting the cut. This usually requires a major change in the type of foods your body intakes as your body metabolizes different foods in various ways. It is not necessarily a drastic cut across the board in calories, although, depending on your current dietary intake, it possibly could be.

Leonardo, forget about your age. If your T levels and other hormone levels are OK, age is irrelevant today until you get close to 80. Everybody's body has a different magic key. You just need to experiment until you find yours.
 
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Old and Grey said:
That is partially true.

You can shred out without getting that soft skinny look. Cutting (losing fat with minimal LBM lose) for aesthetic purposes takes quite a while. It is a slow process. If you simply want to skinny down by losing weight and possibly end up with loose skin, that is a different matter entirely and is easily accomplished fairly quickly. In fact, you can skinny down to a cadaver (think prisoners of war). You cannot properly "cut" down to a cadaver. A proper cut will actually make you appear larger than you were before starting the cut. This usually requires a major change in the type of foods your body intakes as your body metabolizes different foods in various ways. It is not necessarily a drastic cut across the board in calories, although, depending on your current dietary intake, it possibly could be.

Leonardo, forget about your age. If your T levels and other hormone levels are OK, age is irrelevant today until you get close to 80. Everybody's body has a different magic key. You just need to experiment until you find yours.
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I have to disagree with your remarks about age and T levels. It's virtually fact that these start to decline once you hit 40 - you're proof yourself about the effects of reduced levels due to aging and then using TRT.

@leonardopm - I wouldn't worry about it outrageously right now, but yes, it's exponentially harder to gain size and maintain it at a lower body fat % the older you become. Having said that, I don't know that the difference between 12 and 15% is worth worth worrying about, and trying to maintain at under 15% is incredible unhealthy from a hormonal perspective as it is.
 
10% and below is vastly unhealthy in the long term for the majority of humans. This is probably because the body (i.e. species) hasn't evolved to maintain it's weight at that low %.

Lowered hormones and steroid markers in the blood are guaranteed. Loss of libido, artery wall health (and yes, costing at 25% + forever will do damage here as well), reduction on joint health.

Can it be maintained healthily? Yes - steroids are excellent at achieving this goal.
 
There is a natural set point for most people also to consider, and also this set point changes over time.
 
Totentanz said:
There is a natural set point for most people also to consider, and also this set point changes over time.
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Oh absolutely, but for those of us in the middle 85% of the curve, that number for 'resting' bf% is not below 12, and arguably not below 15.
 
Jester, are you suggesting that I would be better quitting my cut at 12% and return to my bulking? I'm near 12 right now and I'm missing bulking times...
 
Jester said:
Oh absolutely, but for those of us in the middle 85% of the curve, that number for 'resting' bf% is not below 12, and arguably not below 15.
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I actually failed to finish my thought last night. Too much mead. Oops.

I meant to say that even if you are one of the few with a naturally low set point, the set point still increases with age in the direction we generally do not want. As an example, when I was young, I was extremely lean and now that I am older, my natural set point seems to be closer to 10-12% if I let my body just go to what it wants to be rather than forcing it to maintain a certain bodyfat %. I've seen it argued that you can change your setpoint over time but I'm not convinced that you can lower your set point without thyroid supplementation at the very least, if not testosterone supplementation, depending on your natural levels.

And pretty much any time you are under your set point, it messes with your hormonal profile. Being way over your set point has several hormonal drawbacks as well, so moral is that you would, in theory, be better off staying near it.

I would agree that the ideal of 15% (according to medical science) is probably not even the natural set point for most people in this day and age. It certainly isn't anywhere near the average bodyfat % for a male in a first world country. To many in our area of interest, 15% may not seem terribly lean but it is realistically far leaner than the majority of males and is what is considered the ideal healthy bodyfat percentage by most of medical science.

leonardopm said:
Jester, are you suggesting that I would be better quitting my cut at 12% and return to my bulking? I'm near 12 right now and I'm missing bulking times...
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You can certainly start bulking at 12%. If you really want to, you could go as low as 10% first before starting your bulk again. Really, the only advantage of going down to 10 first is that you'll be able to bulk longer before you get fat again. Going down to 10% first won't improve your gains or anything though.
 
Indeed. My initial plan was to cut until 10-11% so I would be able to bulk for at least 7 months.

I honesty prefer my appearance under 13% but you know what, I'm getting sick of this cutting thing.

I'm planning to keep two more weeks to see if I can get a little under 12 and start growing again.
 
I certainly think that's a decent plan.

Only caveat I will put here is that I generally discourage people from changing goals too frequently. Usually, if you set a goal, you should keep going until you achieve it. Most of us get quite sick of cutting long before the cut is over. Allowing too much flexibility with goals can lead to the trap some people get into. But for you, in this instance, I think it is safe to go ahead with this plan.
 
Totentanz said:
I certainly think that's a decent plan.

Only caveat I will put here is that I generally discourage people from changing goals too frequently. Usually, if you set a goal, you should keep going until you achieve it. Most of us get quite sick of cutting long before the cut is over. Allowing too much flexibility with goals can lead to the trap some people get into. But for you, in this instance, I think it is safe to go ahead with this plan.
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Thank you. That's great advice.

BTW it was the main reason I kept bulking for so long. O&G told me once and I found very logical. I think there's a price to pay on changing between bulk and cut, so the less changes is better.
 
Totentanz said:
I certainly think that's a decent plan.

Only caveat I will put here is that I generally discourage people from changing goals too frequently. Usually, if you set a goal, you should keep going until you achieve it. Most of us get quite sick of cutting long before the cut is over. Allowing too much flexibility with goals can lead to the trap some people get into.
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That's such a great statement and advice. Achieving goals is what motivates me to work hard. If I was to change my goals midway I would completely lose interest.


On a side note, referring back to the interesting conversation above, I wasn't really aware that 10% bf is not healthy (or easy) to maintain. I am 34 now and my goal is to maintain 10% bf for as long as I can once I achieve a LBM that I am happy with. Are you guys saying that it's not a good idea (health wise)? Is there a specific age that it starts becoming unhealthy and/or impossible?
 
I believe % is good to measure progress and to comparisons but I wouldn't worry too much about the numbers. Since we don't have labels on our faces telling our BF I believe that the mirror is what matters.

As I said my initial plan was to cut until 10% but I'm currently little above 12% and starting to look good on the mirror. I probably won't go until 10%.
 
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