Cycle #2 This is Great!

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(_Simon_ @ Oct. 12 2007,08:47)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">hmmm RUSS u don't think that upright rows are dangerous? i'm sure many people do them just fine but imo it puts the rotator cuffs in an EXTREMELY vulnerable position ay ;)</div>
I've done them for years with no adverse effects - if you feel they are dangerous don't do them . I would say the same for squats , deadlifts and the olympic lifts- if they're painfull check your form , if that avenue has been exhausted and you still find them painfull find alternate excersizes.
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Russ, how is your form for upright rows?

I agree that people shouldn't treat them like the boogeyman, especially since most of us mock the people who insist that squats and deadlifts will kill you.

However, I found that a slightly wider grip than typically recommended felt more comfortable for me. Also, many people claim that you should only pull up as high as your chest in order to avoid whatever issues they supposedly cause. How high do you pull them?

It puzzles me why people insist you need push/pull balance but them will only do presses for shoulders and no pulling exercise to balance it. If balance is so important to them. Doesn't make sense.
 
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(Totentanz @ Oct. 12 2007,10:45)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Russ, how is your form for upright rows?

I agree that people shouldn't treat them like the boogeyman, especially since most of us mock the people who insist that squats and deadlifts will kill you.

However, I found that a slightly wider grip than typically recommended felt more comfortable for me.  Also, many people claim that you should only pull up as high as your chest in order to avoid whatever issues they supposedly cause.  How high do you pull them?

It puzzles me why people insist you need push/pull balance but them will only do presses for shoulders and no pulling exercise to balance it.  If balance is so important to them.  Doesn't make sense.</div>
I grip just outside shoulder width and pull to about 1/2 way between nipples and collar bone - this makes for my upper arm ending in a perfect 90 degree &quot;T&quot; out from my torso at the top.

To butcher a &quot;ronnie-ism&quot; , &quot;everybody wants big capped side delts but nobody wants to do no heavy assed uprights!&quot;
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Seriously though I recognize that these can be the shizit for some and shoulder wreckers for others it all depends on how the big guy put your individual shoulder together apparently. Each lifter should take responsibility for assessing the safety of uprights upon his own shoulders (pun intended). If you can do them they are IMHO the absolute best medial head mass/strength developer .

I agree completely with the push/pull statement - yes presses are the &quot;king&quot; of shoulder movements , but after several years you are going to have to do something for side delts if you care about proportion - the alternative is what- laterals? Hmmmmph...
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<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">yes presses are the &quot;king&quot; of shoulder movements , but after several years you are going to have to do something for side delts if you care about proportion</div>

presses are primarily FOR the side delts, and anterior kicks in only to help, sorry to be a stickler LOL
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and i don't understand that whole 'balance' thing ay, it's weird cos uprights work middle delts, anterior delts, bis and traps, Military press works mid and anterior delts, tris and traps, what sort of proportion are we talking about here, proportion for arms or shoulders?
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(_Simon_ @ Oct. 15 2007,23:55)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">yes presses are the &quot;king&quot; of shoulder movements , but after several years you are going to have to do something for side delts if you care about proportion</div>

presses are primarily FOR the side delts, and anterior kicks in only to help, sorry to be a stickler LOL
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and i don't understand that whole 'balance' thing ay, it's weird cos uprights work middle delts, anterior delts, bis and traps, Military press works mid and anterior delts, tris and traps, what sort of proportion are we talking about here, proportion for arms or shoulders?  
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I disagree. Presses primarily works the anterior delts. The medial delts get worked too, but if you want to make them a primary mover, then side laterals or upright rows are the way to go.

I echo what Russ and Totentanz said about upright rows...right on.
 
I agree, if it hurts or isn't comfortable DON'T DO IT, however most I have know can perform upright row fine. Each hold the bar different then the next. What feels comfortable to me doesn't for the next guy. Oh, I did decided to add these to my routine. I will, in fact, be preforming these bright and early tomorrow morning!!
 
on a side note: have any of you all preformed overhead shrugs? I am going ot add them as one of my work ups to shoulders, I have read of the benifits to the health of the shoulder (rotorary cup) I thought I would mention this as it seems that some are concerned with shoulder problems etc.
 
ALSO while I am on the subject, I am also adding pushup variations to my warmup to bench/dip as I am finding out that these are also great for shoulder health
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and face pulls. OK there you go you now have my plan to better my chances of NOT hurting my shoulder. (I haven't ever had anyissues, but I want ot keep it that way ;) )
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I disagree. Presses primarily works the anterior delts. The medial delts get worked too, but if you want to make them a primary mover, then side laterals or upright rows are the way to go.

I echo what Russ and Totentanz said about upright rows...right on.
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it's not a matter of belief, but muscle physiology
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the anterior delts' PRIMARY function is shoulder flexion, medial delt's PRIMARY function is shoulder abduction.
Side laterals involved purely shoulder abduction, as well as Mil Press AND upright rows, presses do NOT primarily work the anterior delts, they secondarily work them as the anterior delts assist in shoulder abduction.
 
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(_Simon_ @ Oct. 20 2007,10:25)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">it's not a matter of belief, but muscle physiology
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the anterior delts' PRIMARY function is shoulder flexion, medial delt's PRIMARY function is shoulder abduction.
Side laterals involved purely shoulder abduction, as well as Mil Press AND upright rows, presses do NOT primarily work the anterior delts, they secondarily work them as the anterior delts assist in shoulder abduction.</div>
Unfortunately, not everyone tends to agree with you. Look here...

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Barbell Shoulder Press

Muscles

Target

* Deltoid, Anterior

Synergists

* Deltoid, Lateral
* Supraspinatus
* Triceps Brachii
* Trapezius, Middle
* Trapezius, Lower
* Serratus Anterior, Inferior Digitations

Dynamic Stabilizers

* Triceps, Long Head

Stabilizers

* Trapezius, Upper
* Levator Scapulae
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my understanding of what a barbell press is a WIDE grip, the movie thing here emphasises shoulder flexion in which case the ANTERIOR delts are the primary movers, but to me that's not a barbell press HAHAHA barbell press is outside shoulder width grip ay, well that's how i was taught and how i do them, does anyone here do them closer grip???
 
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