Dead lift Question

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imported_etothepii

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My 5 RM for Dead lift is 210 lbs  -- I know that's not much, but let's not dwell on that!

Anyway, I can do a set of 5 just fine. On follow up sets, I can't seem to maintain my grip for more than 2 or 3 reps. Now, clustering is fine with me, but here's my question:

I feel like I can do more in my legs, back, upper body, etc. I don't think that in those respects, 210 has to be my max! So should I get some kind of straps to help me out, of stick at 210 until my grip improves?
 
Work on your grip...but use straps if you need it.
Personally my forearms and grip are my strongest bodypart, so they are the LAST to go. I wear lifting gloves to help with slipping, do you wear gloves or go bare-handed?
 
Somewhere in another post stevejones mentioned doing static holds at the end of his workout to improve his grip strength.  I don't remember which thread it was in though.  Maybe he will chime in and repost that info for you.
 
Yeah, do as much as you can without straps, but don't let grip stop your other developments. Straps are great, hooks are okay but bother me being under the fingers and as Steve has said, Versa Gripps are almost TOO good, taking the forearms totally out of the picture, but that's what I use when I go heavy.

You can also train with BB type grippers, increasing the size as you gain strength. Or cheaper, you can take a pine 2x4, some 2" screws and a screwdriver, screwing them in and out. This will work your grip and blow the heck out of your forearms!
 
I think that is why my forearms are so bitchin', 8 years of plumbing. You think a screwdriver is tough, try using 18" pipe wrenches to put together some large, threaded, steel pipes! Also squeezing channel-locks every day is almost like using a grip trainer.
 
You don't mention which grip you use so I'll assume it's an over under grip.

I used to always have my left hand with an under grip and my right hand with an over grip..when I experienced similar grip problems to you I started changing which hand was over & which was under between each set.

Now that I use max stim I change it between each rep, I've found that it's helped quite a lot.

Cheers

Rob
 
etothepi, remember my grip problems before? Static holds and plate pinching fixed it for me. I don't have an extremely powerful grip by any means, but it's strong enough to hold all I can lift. In the meantime, I don't think there is a thing wrong with using straps if you need them.

What's more important to you, the strong back and legs, or the "honor" of being able to grip the bar without assistance? Yeah, I thought so...get some straps until the grip improves.
 
Gotta agree with Vagrant.

Then, after you're done, take the straps off and put a reasonably heavy weight on the bar. Ideally, put the bar on pins in a power rack so that when you pick it up it's only a couple of inches above the pins. Pick it up and hold it as long as you can. Pick a weight that you can hold for around 30 seconds double overhand.

If it slips it's only a couple of inches above the pins. Do a couple of sets per workout and see if that doesn't start to help.
 
Use straps whenever you can pull more weight with them than without. You can do any one of fourteen thousand different exercises to improve your grip, but the best way to improve your ability at holding onto a barbell is to...hold onto the barbell. Practice static holds (double overhanded grip). Walk around with heavy dumbbells that try to slip out of your grip. Weight yourself down and hang onto a chinup bar.
 
<div>
(stevejones @ Dec. 30 2006,01:05)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">the best way to improve your ability at holding onto a barbell is to...hold onto the barbell.  </div>
I like that. Well put.
 
<div>
(vagrant @ Dec. 30 2006,01:08)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(stevejones @ Dec. 30 2006,01:05)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">the best way to improve your ability at holding onto a barbell is to...hold onto the barbell.  </div>
I like that.  Well put.</div>
Ditto. SAID principle.
 
Thanks for all the replies. Really useful stuff guys.

I do a double overhand grip, so I may alternate and see if that works. I think I'll end each workout with some bar holds too -- this might fit in well on days I don't dead lift, but squat instead.

BTW, this happened once before, at around 165 lbs. I never did anything about it. I just started a new cycle. In that cycle, I made it to 185 with no problems. Maybe the same thing will work itself out!

For the immediate future (post 5 phase) I'll try alternating the grip, if that doesn't help, I'll use some straps.
 
Grip is also directly associated with forearm strength. Having started deadlifting recently, I find that when I get to sets of 315 or more, my &quot;grip&quot; will hold the bar just fine, but I have to reverse one hand because the forearms, although large, fail at holding the bar through the set, while the fingers aren't slipping at all. Someone else may be failing at hand grip (fingers) before the forearms are letting go.
Regardless, the cures are the same, as Big Steve pointed out. I haven't done ANY grip work, but I used to fail somewhere around 250 in the past...but &quot;holding bars&quot; has naturally improved my grip, as yours has. Now that I'm on a shorter workout (5x5) I may just do some statics and shoulder rehab after the workouts.

Goals are nice here too: I'd like to see a 400lb pronated grip working, but expect to do a 500 lb dead this year; and I expect to be using straps...jeez, I only have 7-3/4&quot; wrists!
 
It's weird, when I deadlift in the gym, I only use an overhand grip and I'm limited to roughly 325 for an absolute 1RM.

In the real world where I deadlift often I use a mixed grip with my right hand under and my left over. Sometimes, if I'm on the back of the stretcher I'll use underhand only. The last time I got stuck with a really big one, I did over 700lbs alone (not by choice and wouldn't have done it if I'd known all my help was going to bail on me while lifting). Changing the grip around will probably help you get through your next phase of training.
 
<div>
(etothepii @ Dec. 30 2006,09:11)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Thanks for all the replies. Really useful stuff guys.

I do a double overhand grip, so I may alternate and see if that works. I think I'll end each workout with some bar holds too -- this might fit in well on days I don't dead lift, but squat instead.

BTW, this happened once before, at around 165 lbs. I never did anything about it. I just started a new cycle. In that cycle, I made it to 185 with no problems. Maybe the same thing will work itself out!

For the immediate future (post 5 phase) I'll try alternating the grip, if that doesn't help, I'll use some straps.</div>
To get the most out of your back training, you should never use a double overhanded grip unless you are using straps. Alternate grip will be the strongest grip for everyone, providing they don't have some sort of injury.

When using straps, you should always use a double overhanded grip, as that is the safest grip, preventing you from being predisposed to tearing a bicep. Double overhanded is also the easiest grip to &quot;strap.&quot;

I've heard alot of bb pros advocate using straps even when you don't need them. They say it takes your focus off the grip and it's easier to focus on the back muscles that way. As I gain more experience I'm starting to believe them, or at least I understand their logic, especially as you close in on your genetic potential and are using pretty heavy weights.
 
That's what I was saying last year on the MN board...but I still use no straps until I need them, because I don't do forearm or grip iso's. You just have to concentrate on the weight only.
 
<div>
(quadancer @ Dec. 30 2006,10:06)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Grip is also directly associated with forearm strength. Having started deadlifting recently, I find that when I get to sets of 315 or more, my &quot;grip&quot; will hold the bar just fine, but I have to reverse one hand because the forearms, although large, fail at holding the bar through the set, while the fingers aren't slipping at all. Someone else may be failing at hand grip (fingers) before the forearms are letting go.
Regardless, the cures are the same, as Big Steve pointed out. I haven't done ANY grip work, but I used to fail somewhere around 250 in the past...but &quot;holding bars&quot; has naturally improved my grip, as yours has. Now that I'm on a shorter workout (5x5) I may just do some statics and shoulder rehab after the workouts.

Goals are nice here too: I'd like to see a 400lb pronated grip working, but expect to do a 500 lb dead this year; and I expect to be using straps...jeez, I only have 7-3/4&quot; wrists!</div>
Grip and forearm strength are ONE AND THE SAME. Hold something and grip it tightly, the belly of your forearm will be tense. The 'grip' muscles run down the forearm and attach to the elbow. There is no difference between grip and forearm. The same muscles which allow the fingers to grip, also flex the wrist.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">The same muscles which allow the fingers to grip, also flex the wrist. </div>
Yes and no, I believe. I use my fingers a lot in my work, twisting and handling tools, gripping things and all, but only periodically use more of my forearms, such as when handling lumber. I feel that my hands have more developmental strength than the forearm muscles, and when my grip fails on a bar, I feel it in the forearms, not the hands. Evidently the muscles of the hand have a role in gripping as well as the forearms, even though they don't grow much. Or at least that's the way it feels.

I did some research and to my dismay, I find that you are more correct than I thought. This from a medical website:
Tendons in the hand and forearm.
The muscles that bend or flex the fingers are found in the forearm and are called flexor muscles. The flexor muscles are able to move the fingers through cord-like extensions called tendons, which attach the muscle to bone. The tendons of the flexor muscles that lead to the fingers and the thumb begin just beyond the middle of the forearm. The thumb has one long flexor muscle, and the fingers each have two flexor muscles. One tendon attaches to the middle bone of each finger on the palm side of the hand and bends the fingers at the base and second joints. The other tendon attaches to the bone at the tip of each finger on the palm side and bends all three finger joints

I've had the tendons cut to my finger, but my wrist still worked; and that gave me the impression of more separate duties. I stand corrected.
 
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