"Eating fat makes you fat"

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(drpierredebs @ May 26 2008,4:40)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">obsessed? No, but I think your &quot;advice&quot; is ill-founded and dangerous.

save your pity for thyself.</div>
1. Post 297:
&quot;hey martin, what is your body fat -%?&quot;
2. Post 299:
&quot;What is your body fat %?&quot;
3. Post 301:
&quot;What is your body fat %?&quot;
4. Post 319:
&quot;hey martin, what is your body fat%&quot;
5. Post 321:
&quot;HEy martin what is your body fat %?&quot;
6. Post 323:
&quot;Hey Martin What is your Body Fat%?&quot;
7. Post 326:
&quot;Hey Martin What is your Body Fat%?&quot;
8. Post 328:
&quot;Hey Martin What is your Body Fat%?&quot;
9. Post 335:
&quot;What is your BOdY FAT %?&quot;
10. Post 338:
&quot;http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/MartinLevac/
170 cm and 86.4 kg
golfer with 29.9 bmi
and more of his information source, he seems to have this conversation with other forums-to no avail.&quot;


You really, really need to get help about your problem. I'm really sorry for you.
 
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(Martin Levac @ May 26 2008,2:46)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Do you supplement with anything? If you do, cut that out and see what gives. A zero carb diet contains all the nutrients we need and any supplementation can cause an overdose on something or cause a deficiency. For instance, an excess of vitamin C will affect the immune system which in turn will affect the bacterial population which in turn will affect the fungal spread such as candida which could cause the runs.</div>
I take the following supplements:

Multivitamin-- http://www.lifesfortunevitamins.com/multivitamins_&amp;_minerals.htm

1500 millligrams of Vit C (2000 when you count vit. c from multivitamin)

Fish Oil capsules:
360 mg EPA Omega 3
240 mg DHA Omega 3

1200 mg Calcium

I'll give all that up for 7 days,  see what happens
 
stevejones, why would you stop taking those supplements. The research on the benefits of fish oils is immense, and unless you are getting a good source in your regular diet, you should keep the fish oil in.

Same thing with the other supps, they're all perfectly healthy.

And Martin will not be able to provide a source about the vitamin C causing an increased bacterial population. He will ask questions and dance around any direct questions.

Steve, you seem like a smart guy. Why are you taking advice from someone like this?
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The thing is this, short term you can live perfectly healthy on an animal flesh diet. I've gone months doing so, so have others. Vladamir Stephannson went a year with an all meat, no carb diet.

But our ancestors would have eaten the organs too, as they are a rich source of minerals and vitamins that aren't in muscle meat. They ate the whole damn animal. A pure muscle meat diet MAY or very well MAY NOT be healthy long term. If you aren't eating the organs, i'd keep the multi, bump the fish oil up to 1200mg combined EPA/DHA, keep the calcium and add some magnesium as well.

And the very few societies that did eat a meat ONLY diet like the Inuit are NOT representative of our evolutionary diet as a whole, they lived in harsh conditions where food choices were limited. Most experts on our evolutionary diet put meat as a primary food source, along with varying proportions of vegetables, fruits, nuts, tubers and berries in varying proportions based on location.
 
When most people get information regarding training or nutrition, they usually take that information through the context of what the person giving the information looks like. They assume if they are getting good info, the person will follow their own advice and &quot;look&quot; it.

Intelligent people know that when it comes to information like what is discussed on this forum, there are a lot of incredibly intelligent people that can back up the information they speak about with research, and answer direct questions without skirting around the issue like *cough*martin*cough*. These people give provide incredible information, but don't necessarily look like stage ready bodybuilders, competetive powerlifters and the like. Lyle McDonald is a great example of this, Dan Duchaine was when he was around. There are many others.

But when someone makes bold claims, such as the diet they follow will put on muscle and cause fat loss without calorie control. Well, the person on the diet should be fat-free and muscular. And if the person making miraculous claims can't support what they say with good resources and research, MAKES STUFF up that is proven to be false (like lactose intolerance is from an allergy, dietary fat can't make you fat, etc etc), and whenever asked direct questions to substantiate his claims, then he avoids the issue. Then we are either dealing with a specimen that walks the walk, or we are dealing with someone who is trolling. You decide.

Martin playing golf

Second golf clip
 
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(pete69 @ May 26 2008,8:12)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">...
vitamin C causing an increased bacterial population.
...</div>
I didn't say that. But I wasn't clear either. Vitamin C, at least in great quantity, causes the immune system to become overactive. As it does so, it kills more bacteria than otherwise. If one of the bacteria is the one that controls candida, candida overgrowth occurs. I don't know if candida overgrowth can cause the runs but if a surplus of vitamin C can cause an adverse condition even if only indirectly, it's only reasonable to assume that any supplementation can cause an adverse condition too.
 
<div>
(pete69 @ May 26 2008,8:12)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">...
The thing is this, short term you can live perfectly healthy on an animal flesh diet. I've gone months doing so, so have others. Vladamir Stephannson went a year with an all meat, no carb diet.

But our ancestors would have eaten the organs too, as they are a rich source of minerals and vitamins that aren't in muscle meat. They ate the whole damn animal. A pure muscle meat diet MAY or very well MAY NOT be healthy long term. If you aren't eating the organs, i'd keep the multi, bump the fish oil up to 1200mg combined EPA/DHA, keep the calcium and add some magnesium as well.

And the very few societies that did eat a meat ONLY diet like the Inuit are NOT representative of our evolutionary diet as a whole, they lived in harsh conditions where food choices were limited. Most experts on our evolutionary diet put meat as a primary food source, along with varying proportions of vegetables, fruits, nuts, tubers and berries in varying proportions based on location.</div>
Stephansson went a year on the metabolic ward experiment. He went longer than that in total though. Also, his diet consisted of about 80% fat in calories which comes out to about 65% in weight.

You wrote:&quot;Stephannson went a year with an all meat, no carb diet.&quot;
You wrote:&quot;in muscle meat&quot;
You wrote:&quot;A pure muscle meat diet MAY or very well MAY NOT be healthy long term&quot;

I would argue that you misunderstood what the subject is about. I would also argue that we don't know that &quot;they ate the whole damn animal&quot;. They did avoid eating too much lean meat and instead gave that to their dogs while reserving the fattest parts for themselves.


You make assumptions about what our ancestors would have eaten. You can't possibly know what our ancestors would have eaten. You also make an assumption about what most experts think about the subject. You can't possibly know what most experts think about the subject. You are not &quot;most experts&quot;.
 
that can´t be as he states that he is &quot;such a goddam genius&quot;
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And what is the Vitamin and Mineral Content of animal fat, Martin. Since it is such a rich source of nutrients that is &quot;all you need&quot; for all nutritional requirements, according to you.

And I am very familiar with the 1 year study of Stephannson and his colleague at Bellvue hospital, they at muscle meat, and felt better with fatty meat. The study was done over a year. Stephannson claims he went back on the diet for a longer period of time.

And yes, I DO read research and books from EXPERTS, I don't rely on Gary Taubes as my sole source of information. And yes, it is possible to give estimates of what our ancestors ate. Just because YOU don't know, which is clear, doesn't mean there isn't a great deal of evidence from modern day hunter gatherers, carbon dating, what foods were available, and plenty of research. See work from Dr. Eaton and Cordain, to get started. Here's a website to get started learning something.

http://www.beyondveg.com/nicholson-w/hb/hb-biblio.shtml

Here, from 1 cup of Beef Tallow (take a look at vitamins and minerals, VERY complete indeed)

http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c207m.html
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">4. Unless you just ran a marathom, very rarely does one need the 100 + grams of dense carbs coming from a plate of pasta or a pizza. Very often a Pasta dish as many eat for a meal or a pizza gives more than 150 grams of carbohydrates.</div>

drpierredebs, what did you mean by this? i am eating a fairly highish carb diet (55%) and my meals consist of around 150g of carbs per meal.
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">

You really, really need to get help about your problem. I'm really sorry for you.</div>

he doesn't have a problem, he was merely asking a question on a forum which you didn't answer, so he thought he'd repeat the question in case you missed it. It's your right whether you want to answer it however of cause, he was just curious i'm guessin, not that i want to speak for anyone
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<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">But when someone makes bold claims, such as the diet they follow will put on muscle and cause fat loss without calorie control. Well, the person on the diet should be fat-free and muscular. </div>

very good point ;) but i'm not sure if that claim was made, i believe the claim made was that a no-carb diet will get you as lean, and that is get anyone lean. but i must have missed the bit about muscle gain (which is possible on a no-carb diet providing sufficient above maintenance calories, right???)


i'm still listening to all that is being said, carry on
 
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(Martin Levac @ May 26 2008,10:45)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I would argue that you misunderstood what the subject is about. I would also argue that we don't know that &quot;they ate the whole damn animal&quot;. They did avoid eating too much lean meat and instead gave that to their dogs while reserving the fattest parts for themselves.</div>
how would you know that they gave it to their dogs if no one else can know what they ate?
Wait you are a reanimated paleolithic genius.


get back to the green, it is tee off time.

Four!!!!!!!!!! Nice slice by the way.

And don´t give me that politeness nonsense.
I am obsessed with you and your insanity going away.
 
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(pete69 @ May 26 2008,10:57)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">And what is the Vitamin and Mineral Content of animal fat, Martin. Since it is such a rich source of nutrients that is &quot;all you need&quot; for all nutritional requirements, according to you.

And I am very familiar with the 1 year study of Stephannson and his colleague at Bellvue hospital, they at muscle meat, and felt better with fatty meat. The study was done over a year. Stephannson claims he went back on the diet for a longer period of time.

And yes, I DO read research and books from EXPERTS, I don't rely on Gary Taubes as my sole source of information. And yes, it is possible to give estimates of what our ancestors ate. Just because YOU don't know, which is clear, doesn't mean there isn't a great deal of evidence from modern day hunter gatherers, carbon dating, what foods were available, and plenty of research. See work from Dr. Eaton and Cordain, to get started. Here's a website to get started learning something.

http://www.beyondveg.com/nicholson-w/hb/hb-biblio.shtml

Here, from 1 cup of Beef Tallow (take a look at vitamins and minerals, VERY complete indeed)

http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c207m.html</div>
Dan posted a chart somewhere comparing nutrient content of meat and peaches.

If you are familiar with the paper, it was not apparent in your previous post.

You make another assumption. This time about what I rely on for my source of information. You can't possibly know that. It's a more reasonable position to &quot;give estimates&quot; than to claim outright that you know what our ancestors would have eaten. You still can't claim to know what experts know or what our ancestors ate. This means our estimates can be off by any amount. In other words, it's not a certainty. Thanks for the links. Here's a website for your enjoyment:

http://www.paleodiet.com/
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I don't rely on Gary Taubes as my sole source of information.</div>

yeah, it's never a good option to focus only on the thoughts/research of one person...
 
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(_Simon_ @ May 26 2008,11:00)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">4. Unless you just ran a marathom, very rarely does one need the 100 + grams of dense carbs coming from a plate of pasta or a pizza. Very often a Pasta dish as many eat for a meal or a pizza gives more than 150 grams of carbohydrates.</div>

drpierredebs, what did you mean by this? i am eating a fairly highish carb diet (55%) and my meals consist of around 150g of carbs per meal.</div>
Unless you get your heart rate up into the anerobic zone for more than about 2 hours straight, you won´t have depleted your stored gylcogens (liver and muscle) and thus do not need a one time injection of 150+ grams of carbs. You body will not likely refill the glycogen after one meal anyway.

if you are eating 3 square tahst 450 grams a day!!! That is a LOT of carbs! I don´t even consume that much after a marathon where I may have burned 6000 +calories.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">You make another assumption. This time about what I rely on for my source of information. You can't possibly know that. It's a more reasonable position to &quot;give estimates&quot; than to claim outright that you know what our ancestors would have eaten. You still can't claim to know what experts know or what our ancestors ate. This means our estimates can be off by any amount. In other words, it's not a certainty.</div>

but YOU'VE claimed that cutting the carbs out of the diet of an obese person WILL solve the obesity problem for them!!! that to me was not an estimation, but a clear-cut claim.
 
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(Martin Levac @ May 26 2008,11:06)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">.

You make another assumption...... T......You can't possibly know that. It's a more r......You still can't claim to know what experts know or what our ancestors ate. ........</div>
we can´t possible know anything you are talking about as it is encrypted in stupidity.

Four!!!!!!
 
Simon, Martin doesn't takes every direct question asked to him about his BS claims and asks another question. It's very obvious he's argueing just for the sake of argueing. If he was backing up his claims intelligently like the rest of us here then he'd get answers and perhaps learn something about metabolism.

And he claims that the PBS, or positive calorie balance theory (let those of us who having a fully functioning brain call it a fact) is a myth, and it's CARB, not CALORIES, that make one fat by trapping it. His claim is that dietary fat won't make you fat. He eats only animal flesh, protein and fat, and from what I gather much more fat than protein. By default, eating this way will put you in ketosis, and since the diet is carb free, according to is own (il)-logic, then fat should keep being lost as there is no carbs to cause fat gain or one to keep their fat stores.

So everyone on atkins is completely devoid of fat. Riiiiight. All those shredded Atkins dieters.
 
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