Extra day's rest

Discussion in 'Hypertrophy-Specific Training (HST)' started by ricwig, Dec 12, 2007.

  1. ricwig

    ricwig New Member

    I started an HST cycle a few weeks ago and for the 15s and 10s things went great - I increased my maximums in both rep-ranges and even felt like I could have gone higher.  I had decided to up my caloric intake quite a bit (eat like a pig) after gaining a little strength, but losing a lot of weight, on a short max-stim cycle and a longer 5x5 cycle.

    However, by the end of the first week of 5s I felt completely drained and every rep felt like a maximum.  I was training full body (8 sets) three days a week, but at the start of the second week I just couldn't face my Monday session so I put it off until Tuesday (something I can't ever remember doing before).  Well, I felt strong, the reps were less 'ragged' and at the end of the workout I wasn't winded at all.

    So, if the 5s are in large part to increase strength would it be acceptable, if not preferable, to drop the workouts to 2 full body days per week?  I am following the standard 1x15, 2x10, 3x5 sets routine.
     
  2. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    Yes you could; just make sure the workouts count.
    I'm presently doing a "9 day" week because of physical work wearing on me in addition to my workouts (in the 5's) and it's working pretty well. I just take 2 days off between every workout.
    Monday on
    Tues off
    wed off
    thur on
    fri off
    sat off
    sun on
    mon off
    tues off -nine days for 3 workouts.
    If I feel like it though, I'll jump in at any time and work out, shortening the week, since recovery is what this is all about. I may lift furniture or do carpentry for two days then push a pencil for three, so it varies.
     
  3. Fausto

    Fausto HST Expert

    Hi ricwig

    Everyone gets a different those of unhappiness and disappointment, strange ain't it? [​IMG]

    I on the other hand am starting to think that this 2 x week thing is not enough, but increasing volume is gonna make me workouts toooo long, so...maybe I'll go back to 3 x week or even more on a split basis.

    Hey...what's good for the goose is good fpor the ganda, right? As long as you keep HST principles.

    My opinion? Drop to twice pre week, and make sure your workouts are profitable, short sweet and hard above all, should be a sweet spot. [​IMG]

    Been for me for a while...but I'm hitting a stalemate...time to change up! [​IMG]
     
  4. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    <div>
    (ricwig @ Dec. 12 2007,05:39)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I started an HST cycle a few weeks ago and for the 15s and 10s things went great - I increased my maximums in both rep-ranges and even felt like I could have gone higher. I had decided to up my caloric intake quite a bit (eat like a pig) after gaining a little strength, but losing a lot of weight, on a short max-stim cycle and a longer 5x5 cycle.

    However, by the end of the first week of 5s I felt completely drained and every rep felt like a maximum. I was training full body (8 sets) three days a week, but at the start of the second week I just couldn't face my Monday session so I put it off until Tuesday (something I can't ever remember doing before). Well, I felt strong, the reps were less 'ragged' and at the end of the workout I wasn't winded at all.

    So, if the 5s are in large part to increase strength would it be acceptable, if not preferable, to drop the workouts to 2 full body days per week? I am following the standard 1x15, 2x10, 3x5 sets routine.</div>
    If dropping down to 2 times a week allows you to make more progress and be stronger, then by all means do it.

    You might also consider moving to a split, such as an upper/lower or push/pull split, and go to working out four times a week, which will allow more rest for the parts you aren't working while still getting a comparable amount of volume over the week compared to 3 times a week fullbody.
     
  5. ricwig

    ricwig New Member

    Thanks quadancer and Fausto.

    Quad - your present routine looks ideal, except for the weekends getting in the way.  I was until recently training on a Saturday/Sunday morning but I don't tend to now as myself and the missus both have mind-numbingly dull jobs so we bought a motorhome (RV in Americana?) and try to get away most weekends.  Or failing that I drink (I know, I know...)!

    Fausto - before starting this HST cycle I was training a split routine Mon/Wed/Fri, so I suppose I'm training each bodypart more frequently with twice a week full body, it just feels less!  I was toying with the idea of splitting it over Mon/Tue and Thu/Fri, or even dropping the volume and keeping full body Mon/Wed/Fri.  For the time being, I think I'll see where I can go with twice a week.

    PS. quad on a different note, thanks to your previous posts on back injuries and training I'm now squatting again after more than two years, still under 300lbs at the moment but it's increasing workout to workout; and I'm deadlifting, albeit sumo style, over 400.  And, most importantly, pain free!
     
  6. ricwig

    ricwig New Member

    ...and thanks Totentanz

    You beat me to it and took the words out of my keyboard!  That's what I was thinking about: trying to balance out volume with recovery over the week.  Doing a split would allow me to get more work in, complarable to three times a week, with extra sets or even extra exercises (I would personally prefer sets as I never bother with isolation exercises, only basic compounds).

    It's just that, and this is purely subjective, I've always preferred the 'idea' of full body routines - even when I was splitting mine up!  I've read the odd article on the benefits of not splitting workouts, but I would be the first to admit they do seem quite anecdotal with observations from afar and not taking many other variables into account.
     
  7. nkl

    nkl Member

    Just a thought...

    If we are increasing the number of sets while going from 10s to 5s (perhaps from 2 sets to 3 sets), that might be a drop in volume, but the increase in load might cause the scale to become unbalanced (frequency-volume-intensity) so that the ability to recover can't keep up (hence overtrainging symptoms). It might also be more taxing on the CNS, especially if we are close to failure.

    Volume is one thing, intensity another.

    Intensity can in this case be defined as weight x reps x sets, that is, the total weight we lift (in kg or lbs).

    If we can keep the intensity constant per week we might perhaps be able to avoid overtraining symptoms. We can adjust the 'constant' as we get stronger, and if that doesn't work for us, we can adjust it down again. Trial and error.

    A calculation example:

    Per definition, from the algorithm to determine the 15, 10, and 5 Repetition Max (RM), 15RM is 61% of 1RM, 10RM is 75% of 1RM, and 5RM is 89% of 1RM. Lets assume a constant volume of 30 repetitions.

    On 15s the intensity becomes: 61 * 15 * 2 = 1830 (kg or lbs)
    On 10s the intensity becomes: 75 * 10 * 3 = 2250 (kg or lbs)
    On 5s the intensity becomes: 89 * 5 * 6 = 2670 (kg or lbs)

    Hence the intensity increases if we keep a constant volume using our maxes.

    A drop from 30 to 25 reps total, going from 2 sets of 10s to 5 sets of 5s, gives us 2225 (kg or lbs), a slightly lower value than the 10s.

    Most HST trainees does not use 5 sets of 5s as in the example (1-2 sets are recommended for all rep ranges), but they might wedge in another exercise or two, upping the total intensity of the training session (thus adding some more load on the CNS as well).

    The body's ability to recover is limited. To be at our best, we can try to get plenty of sleep, eat healthy food and make sure we get all the vitamins and minerals we need (and perhaps something extra, to give us some extra health benefits - omega-3 fish oil, creatine, or whatever we think is good for us).

    Best regards,
    nkl
     
  8. Moises

    Moises New Member

    <div>
    (ricwig @ Dec. 12 2007,05:39)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I started an HST cycle a few weeks ago and for the 15s and 10s things went great - I increased my maximums in both rep-ranges and even felt like I could have gone higher. I had decided to up my caloric intake quite a bit (eat like a pig) after gaining a little strength, but losing a lot of weight, on a short max-stim cycle and a longer 5x5 cycle.

    However, by the end of the first week of 5s I felt completely drained and every rep felt like a maximum. I was training full body (8 sets) three days a week, but at the start of the second week I just couldn't face my Monday session so I put it off until Tuesday (something I can't ever remember doing before). Well, I felt strong, the reps were less 'ragged' and at the end of the workout I wasn't winded at all.

    So, if the 5s are in large part to increase strength would it be acceptable, if not preferable, to drop the workouts to 2 full body days per week? I am following the standard 1x15, 2x10, 3x5 sets routine.</div>
    You could go to 2/week, or, first, try 5 workouts every two weeks.

    I do this:

    M
    W
    F
    Tu
    Th
    M
    W
    F
    Tu
    Th

    This way the first week of each 2-week minicycle, which has lighter weights, has 3 workouts, and the harder, second week of the minicycle has 2 workouts.

    Conversely, I do my cardio Tu, Th, M, W, F.

    What I like about HST is the variety. Alternating 2- and 3-per-week workouts adds even more variety.
     

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