Fist Cycle, a bit cynical
- Thread starter Arbie
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imported_deolmstead
Guest
I believe that Grapeseed oil contains many of the same health benefits of Olive Oil, but with a much milder flavor. It also has a higher smoke point, so I prefer to use it for cooking, and save the Olive Oil for salad dressing.
scientific muscle
New Member
I always found that eating FOOD was very good for gaining weight. It works pretty well unless you have a shrunken stomach or a tapeworm or something.
You want to bulk up and get huge, follow the advice in my signature! (*warning-side effects incude huge lardiness for some!)
You want to bulk up and get huge, follow the advice in my signature! (*warning-side effects incude huge lardiness for some!)
RUSS
Member
<div>
(scientific muscle @ Oct. 22 2007,19:04)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I always found that eating FOOD was very good for gaining weight. It works pretty well unless you have a shrunken stomach or a tapeworm or something.
You want to bulk up and get huge, follow the advice in my signature! (*warning-side effects incude huge lardiness for some!)</div>
Well said!
(scientific muscle @ Oct. 22 2007,19:04)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I always found that eating FOOD was very good for gaining weight. It works pretty well unless you have a shrunken stomach or a tapeworm or something.
You want to bulk up and get huge, follow the advice in my signature! (*warning-side effects incude huge lardiness for some!)</div>
Well said!
AWESOME guys very helpful advice ay!
what's a good source of carbs, that are in liquid form though?
i could always have abooooout, 750ml of orange juice or something, which is roughly 60 grams of carbs... that's alot of juice... LOL
i know that the sugars from juice are mostly fructose, does that cause an insulin spike in the same way that another sugar (like dextrose, say) does?? (or does it just replenish liver glycogen?)
then AGAIN i could eat the majority of my carbs during the day and just have fats and protein in this 'gainer' shake...
this should probably be in the nutrition forum......
what's a good source of carbs, that are in liquid form though?
i know that the sugars from juice are mostly fructose, does that cause an insulin spike in the same way that another sugar (like dextrose, say) does?? (or does it just replenish liver glycogen?)
then AGAIN i could eat the majority of my carbs during the day and just have fats and protein in this 'gainer' shake...
this should probably be in the nutrition forum......
I'd say it depends on what you're using the shake for. I do maltodextrin/dextrose in the pre-workout shake (with whey of course) for carbs to burn. If it's just a health shake to keep up proteins, your fat timing would be beneficial here.
Fructose does replenish liver glycogen, and is a slower burning fuel, as far as I know.
The product I like best (cuz' its cheap?) is CarboForce - maltodex and dextrose. You can also buy them separately and mix, but the malto is harder to find alone.
Or you could buy a zillion packs of 'SugarTwin'....
Fructose does replenish liver glycogen, and is a slower burning fuel, as far as I know.
The product I like best (cuz' its cheap?) is CarboForce - maltodex and dextrose. You can also buy them separately and mix, but the malto is harder to find alone.
Or you could buy a zillion packs of 'SugarTwin'....
Joe.Muscle
Active Member
I say get 1 gram of protein per lbm and then eat everything in sight.
Ok, I thought I was doing alright until I read how much I've got to eat. I finished the first four workouts of my first cycle. So far its been really easy...maybe too easy. I'm not sore at all. I'm cranking up the weight a bit since I think I can do more 15RM than what I thought.
I've been eating a lot compared to what I usually eat. I've been making shakes from 8 to 10 oz of soy milk, two scopes of whey, 1 tablespoon of walnut oil (walnut oil actually tastes ok with whey) and a teaspoon and a half of non-soluble fiber (you'll understand when you get to be 46). I tried flax seed oil. Nasty.
I think I'm doing about 3000-3200 cals per day. Now I'm reading that I've got to step it up to 3800 cal per day. Man, this is going to be tough. I can't get down with the clown. Won't do it. I'm open to new experiences but there's a line I simply won't cross.
Someone suggested a 1000 cal drink. I can't see the thread right now, but I'll go back and read it and see if I can find some.
I've been eating a lot compared to what I usually eat. I've been making shakes from 8 to 10 oz of soy milk, two scopes of whey, 1 tablespoon of walnut oil (walnut oil actually tastes ok with whey) and a teaspoon and a half of non-soluble fiber (you'll understand when you get to be 46). I tried flax seed oil. Nasty.
I think I'm doing about 3000-3200 cals per day. Now I'm reading that I've got to step it up to 3800 cal per day. Man, this is going to be tough. I can't get down with the clown. Won't do it. I'm open to new experiences but there's a line I simply won't cross.
Someone suggested a 1000 cal drink. I can't see the thread right now, but I'll go back and read it and see if I can find some.
Arbie: you probably ARE doing more than your former maxes. HST also builds strength, and you've upped your fuel intake, so more is available for work. I'd say run with it, just put your maxes where they're supposed to be so you don't burn out early.
Flax oil IS nasty...I just tend to drink it down at times with a chaser, rather than ruin a shake with it.
Flax oil IS nasty...I just tend to drink it down at times with a chaser, rather than ruin a shake with it.
TunnelRat
Active Member
<div>
(quadancer @ Oct. 24 2007,22:18)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Flax oil IS nasty...I just tend to drink it down at times with a chaser, rather than ruin a shake with it.</div>
Which is why I take my flax oil in capsules. It costs a bit more, but it goes down a whole lot easier.
(quadancer @ Oct. 24 2007,22:18)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Flax oil IS nasty...I just tend to drink it down at times with a chaser, rather than ruin a shake with it.</div>
Which is why I take my flax oil in capsules. It costs a bit more, but it goes down a whole lot easier.
Thanks for all the advice.
I did the 5th workout today. This was more of a challenge. I struggled with the squats and couldn't quite get to parallel (tops of my thighs parallel with the ground) on the last two reps. I do deads in workout 6 so this was the last 15 rep squat session. OH Presses, an exercise that I have always struggled with, are progressing quite nicely. I'm doing weight assisted pull-ups rather than lat pulls and I like them much better. I can only do about 5 unassisted pull-ups, so I'm going to use the weight assist for 15s and 10s and probably the first few 5s and then go unassisted towards the end of 5s and add a bit of weight (~10 lbs) for the last 5 rep workout. I'd love to be able to do 10 unassisted pull ups -- but I think its going to take a few cycles to get there.
I'm still feeling like I'm not doing enough. In my previous routine, I would cycle through 3x15, 4x10 and 5x5 of successive workouts. I had an A/B split -- upper body/lower body. I would work at the edge of failure each workout and was constantly sore and felt pretty bad after just a few weeks.
But, with HST I feel better (less residual fatigue). But I'm struggling with the sense that I'm not doing enough. I've got one more 15 rep workout then I switch to 2x10s.
My instincts are that I want to be doing 2x15, 3x10 and 5x5. But I think the HST approach favors lower volume. I'd be interested in hearing people's comments on this.
I do think my weights up a bit -- maybe 1 to 2 lbs. The home scale I have measures body fat. It's showing my body fat is down about 1% to 15%. All good.
My short term goal is 185 lbs and 12 to 13% body fat. It's unclear whether I can achieve weight gain and fat loss simultaneously.
I did the 5th workout today. This was more of a challenge. I struggled with the squats and couldn't quite get to parallel (tops of my thighs parallel with the ground) on the last two reps. I do deads in workout 6 so this was the last 15 rep squat session. OH Presses, an exercise that I have always struggled with, are progressing quite nicely. I'm doing weight assisted pull-ups rather than lat pulls and I like them much better. I can only do about 5 unassisted pull-ups, so I'm going to use the weight assist for 15s and 10s and probably the first few 5s and then go unassisted towards the end of 5s and add a bit of weight (~10 lbs) for the last 5 rep workout. I'd love to be able to do 10 unassisted pull ups -- but I think its going to take a few cycles to get there.
I'm still feeling like I'm not doing enough. In my previous routine, I would cycle through 3x15, 4x10 and 5x5 of successive workouts. I had an A/B split -- upper body/lower body. I would work at the edge of failure each workout and was constantly sore and felt pretty bad after just a few weeks.
But, with HST I feel better (less residual fatigue). But I'm struggling with the sense that I'm not doing enough. I've got one more 15 rep workout then I switch to 2x10s.
My instincts are that I want to be doing 2x15, 3x10 and 5x5. But I think the HST approach favors lower volume. I'd be interested in hearing people's comments on this.
I do think my weights up a bit -- maybe 1 to 2 lbs. The home scale I have measures body fat. It's showing my body fat is down about 1% to 15%. All good.
My short term goal is 185 lbs and 12 to 13% body fat. It's unclear whether I can achieve weight gain and fat loss simultaneously.
TunnelRat
Active Member
<div>
(Arbie @ Oct. 25 2007,15:28)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I'm still feeling like I'm not doing enough. In my previous routine, I would cycle through 3x15, 4x10 and 5x5 of successive workouts. I had an A/B split -- upper body/lower body. I would work at the edge of failure each workout and was constantly sore and felt pretty bad after just a few weeks.
But, with HST I feel better (less residual fatigue). But I'm struggling with the sense that I'm not doing enough. I've got one more 15 rep workout then I switch to 2x10s.
My instincts are that I want to be doing 2x15, 3x10 and 5x5. But I think the HST approach favors lower volume. I'd be interested in hearing people's comments on this.</div>
I'm in the final stages of Korte's strength program. For the first four weeks I was doing 40 squats, 40 deads, and 48 bench presses, three times per week. I was constantly sore and usually exhausted.
Now, in the second phase of the Korte program, I am doing significantly less work. Instead of 40 squats, I do 3 sets of 3, with light weights. Instead of 40 deads, I do 3 sets of 3 with light weights. You get the picture. Yet I am finding that my strength seems to increase every week. I've been hitting new personal bests (nearly) every time I go to the gym.
I suspect the old-fashioned way of high volume and workouts to failure eventually result in a constant weakened condition. HST's SD and lower volume per workout gives muscles a better chance to recover and grow. Just my 2 cents.
(Arbie @ Oct. 25 2007,15:28)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I'm still feeling like I'm not doing enough. In my previous routine, I would cycle through 3x15, 4x10 and 5x5 of successive workouts. I had an A/B split -- upper body/lower body. I would work at the edge of failure each workout and was constantly sore and felt pretty bad after just a few weeks.
But, with HST I feel better (less residual fatigue). But I'm struggling with the sense that I'm not doing enough. I've got one more 15 rep workout then I switch to 2x10s.
My instincts are that I want to be doing 2x15, 3x10 and 5x5. But I think the HST approach favors lower volume. I'd be interested in hearing people's comments on this.</div>
I'm in the final stages of Korte's strength program. For the first four weeks I was doing 40 squats, 40 deads, and 48 bench presses, three times per week. I was constantly sore and usually exhausted.
Now, in the second phase of the Korte program, I am doing significantly less work. Instead of 40 squats, I do 3 sets of 3, with light weights. Instead of 40 deads, I do 3 sets of 3 with light weights. You get the picture. Yet I am finding that my strength seems to increase every week. I've been hitting new personal bests (nearly) every time I go to the gym.
I suspect the old-fashioned way of high volume and workouts to failure eventually result in a constant weakened condition. HST's SD and lower volume per workout gives muscles a better chance to recover and grow. Just my 2 cents.
From another perspective, I was sore all over when I came to HST from MuscleNow. I HEALED my joints doing HST, and yes, it felt like a candy workout after the brutal regime I'd been under. But I grew.
If you will focus on pullup form, rather than reps, the reps will come up regardless and you will maintain your ROM. I see too many guys "jerking' themselves partway up and calling it reps. No reps, no growth. If you've made it to 5, you're not far away from 12, then 15, then weighted 10's and so on.
Oh, BTW, enjoy the easy feeling while it lasts. It won't.
If you will focus on pullup form, rather than reps, the reps will come up regardless and you will maintain your ROM. I see too many guys "jerking' themselves partway up and calling it reps. No reps, no growth. If you've made it to 5, you're not far away from 12, then 15, then weighted 10's and so on.
Oh, BTW, enjoy the easy feeling while it lasts. It won't.
bgates1654
New Member
Part of the problem that many "hardgainers" have is that they have it in their head that they have to beat the **** out of themselves working out. This burns a ton of energy that would be better used toward growing. I am willing to bet you would grown better on a 1x15,1x10,2x5 routine than that one that had double+ the total reps.
If you cant gain by stuffing the hell out of yourself then you need to reduce your energy expenditure.
If you cant gain by stuffing the hell out of yourself then you need to reduce your energy expenditure.
Very well said, Mr. Gates!
Personally I prefer 15x2, 10x2, and 5x3.
30 reps, 20 reps, 15 reps...during the tens I tend to do a few supplemental exersizes like skulls and curls. In the fives it's time to bring out the brute; nothing left for foofoo.
(...and all that depends upon how hard my JOB is at the time!)
Personally I prefer 15x2, 10x2, and 5x3.
30 reps, 20 reps, 15 reps...during the tens I tend to do a few supplemental exersizes like skulls and curls. In the fives it's time to bring out the brute; nothing left for foofoo.
(...and all that depends upon how hard my JOB is at the time!)
<div>
(quadancer @ Oct. 24 2007,22:18)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Arbie: you probably ARE doing more than your former maxes. HST also builds strength, and you've upped your fuel intake, so more is available for work. I'd say run with it, just put your maxes where they're supposed to be so you don't burn out early.
Flax oil IS nasty...I just tend to drink it down at times with a chaser, rather than ruin a shake with it.</div>
There is this Smart Balance Peanut Butter that I take. It has 1g of flaxseed oil, for a total of 1000mg of Omega-3 and 1300mg of Omega-6 per serving. It tastes just as good as other peanut butters, and it is natural.
(quadancer @ Oct. 24 2007,22:18)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Arbie: you probably ARE doing more than your former maxes. HST also builds strength, and you've upped your fuel intake, so more is available for work. I'd say run with it, just put your maxes where they're supposed to be so you don't burn out early.
Flax oil IS nasty...I just tend to drink it down at times with a chaser, rather than ruin a shake with it.</div>
There is this Smart Balance Peanut Butter that I take. It has 1g of flaxseed oil, for a total of 1000mg of Omega-3 and 1300mg of Omega-6 per serving. It tastes just as good as other peanut butters, and it is natural.
<div>
(bgates1654 @ Oct. 26 2007,12:10)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Part of the problem that many "hardgainers" have is that they have it in their head that they have to beat the **** out of themselves working out. This burns a ton of energy that would be better used toward growing. I am willing to bet you would grown better on a 1x15,1x10,2x5 routine than that one that had double+ the total reps.
If you cant gain by stuffing the hell out of yourself then you need to reduce your energy expenditure.</div>
I could use that energy output for my cut. Willing to sign a loan?
(bgates1654 @ Oct. 26 2007,12:10)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Part of the problem that many "hardgainers" have is that they have it in their head that they have to beat the **** out of themselves working out. This burns a ton of energy that would be better used toward growing. I am willing to bet you would grown better on a 1x15,1x10,2x5 routine than that one that had double+ the total reps.
If you cant gain by stuffing the hell out of yourself then you need to reduce your energy expenditure.</div>
I could use that energy output for my cut. Willing to sign a loan?
Folks, thanks for all the advice. I thought I'd give you an update.
I've been at it for 4 weeks. Today I just started my 5s. the 10s went great and I hit my maxes just about spot on. So far so good. I have not been sore yet, which still bugs me a bit. But I'm getting results.
The diet seems to be working. I've gained about 4 pounds. My secret is something called 'food', which had been suggested by some of the more insightful contributors to this thread. It seems that if I eat more of it, I gain weight. Whoda thunk.
Before each workout I do 2 scoops of When in 10 oz of Soy milk and a bit of walnut oil (maybe 50 grams of protein). During my workout I drink about 16 oz of Cytomax (33 grams carbs). Immediately after, I drink a 17 oz pre-packaged protein thing -- another 42 gr of protein at 17 carbs. I workout in the morning, so by the time I finish, I've had about 1000 cals. On the days I workout, I'll eat some simple carbs and starches (white bread and pasta mostly) whcih is a change for me. I usually avoid simple carbs like the plague. I generally shoot for 3500 cals/day.
On the days that I don't work out, I still do 200 gr + of Protein, but all of my carbs are complex carbs. I generally shoot for 2500 to 300 cals on my days off.
I seem to be gaining weight without gaining fat. This is a good thing.
Now concerning the 5s, I'm a bit concerned that I might have overshot. I picked up on the 5s at the weight ranges that I left off at on the 10s. Except for dips, where I started the 5s a bit heavier than where I finished the 10s. For example, my 10RM max on Squats was 145 lbs. I started the 5s at 145 lbs. I interleave squats with deads, so across the 6 workouts I do squats three times and deads three times. I want to progress squats from 145 to 160 to 175. But now I'm not sure that I can make it to 175. Is it better to reduce the intervals (go from 145 to 155 to 165) and risk undershooting my max or should I stick to the progression at the risk that I will only be able to do 3 reps at 175?
I've been at it for 4 weeks. Today I just started my 5s. the 10s went great and I hit my maxes just about spot on. So far so good. I have not been sore yet, which still bugs me a bit. But I'm getting results.
The diet seems to be working. I've gained about 4 pounds. My secret is something called 'food', which had been suggested by some of the more insightful contributors to this thread. It seems that if I eat more of it, I gain weight. Whoda thunk.
Before each workout I do 2 scoops of When in 10 oz of Soy milk and a bit of walnut oil (maybe 50 grams of protein). During my workout I drink about 16 oz of Cytomax (33 grams carbs). Immediately after, I drink a 17 oz pre-packaged protein thing -- another 42 gr of protein at 17 carbs. I workout in the morning, so by the time I finish, I've had about 1000 cals. On the days I workout, I'll eat some simple carbs and starches (white bread and pasta mostly) whcih is a change for me. I usually avoid simple carbs like the plague. I generally shoot for 3500 cals/day.
On the days that I don't work out, I still do 200 gr + of Protein, but all of my carbs are complex carbs. I generally shoot for 2500 to 300 cals on my days off.
I seem to be gaining weight without gaining fat. This is a good thing.
Now concerning the 5s, I'm a bit concerned that I might have overshot. I picked up on the 5s at the weight ranges that I left off at on the 10s. Except for dips, where I started the 5s a bit heavier than where I finished the 10s. For example, my 10RM max on Squats was 145 lbs. I started the 5s at 145 lbs. I interleave squats with deads, so across the 6 workouts I do squats three times and deads three times. I want to progress squats from 145 to 160 to 175. But now I'm not sure that I can make it to 175. Is it better to reduce the intervals (go from 145 to 155 to 165) and risk undershooting my max or should I stick to the progression at the risk that I will only be able to do 3 reps at 175?
I
imported_fearfactory
Guest
if you undershoot, why not just do an extra week of 5's?
if you overshoot and just get 3 reps, would that really be a problem? it might be possible to wait a few minutes and throw up two extra reps...
if you overshoot and just get 3 reps, would that really be a problem? it might be possible to wait a few minutes and throw up two extra reps...