Here is my plan

T-man said:
Based on 12RM @ 125lb, your mini cycle would be something like this:
Workout 1: 95 x 12 x 2 sets
Workout 2: 100 x 12 x 2
Workout 3: 105 x 12 x 2
Workout 4: 110 x 12 x 2
Workout 5: 120 x 12 x 2
Workout 6: 125 x 12 x 2

Then say for that lift, you can do 135 x 8. That mini cycle would be:

Workout 1: 100 x 8 x 2
Workout 2: 110 x 8 x 2
Workout 3: 115 x 8 x 2
Workout 4: 120 x 8 x 2
Workout 5: 130 x 8 x 2
Workout 6: 135 x 8 x 2

For the 3rd mini cycle, say its 155 x 4. So:

Workout 1: 115 x 4 x 3
Workout 2: 125 x 4 x 3
Workout 3: 130 x 4 x 3
Workout 4: 140 x 4 x 3
Workout 5: 150 x 4 x 3
Workout 6: 155 x 4 x 3
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Not to beat a dead horse, but would it make a difference if 95-115x12 i could do without even breaking a sweat? Yesterday for a warm-up I did 95x15 without pausing. I was able to blow through it. I will take your advice, though 95x12 doesnt challenge me, if 95x12 is indeed the route I should go.
 
If you do a proper 9-14 day SD, you should still benefit from the first week of workouts. To make effective use of these lower weights, increase TUT with nice, slow reps. Also, since you are shooting for 24 total reps in the first mini cycle, you could do myo reps.
 
Old and Grey said:
At 5'10" and 147 pounds, those are snacks. You need to start eating man. SIMPLIFLY and EAT!
5% BF is unhealthy. Your internal organs hate you, eh. Eat or Die! Don't even think about non-compound movements until you are at 180-190 pounds and 12-15% BF.
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Copy all.

So you're saying that I should bulk for a while, even though I will most likely gain even more abdomen fat and look gross, but just deal with? About the bulking, what amount of calories would you say is good? Right now at the ~1900 I'm eating, I rarely feel hungry. A bodybuilder who I know said he regularly ate 4500-5000 calories per day on a bulk, and suggested I do the same, however, I think 4000-5000 for me might be over-the-top. what do you think?

I also am really curious to see how much muscle you can put on, on a recomp, if much at all. The bodybuilder who I was telling you about, though, did a hard bulk for 6 months (4-5 workout days of splits, 2-3 days of cardio), and absolutely blew up. He said the 2-3 days of cardio/week helped keep some of the fat off. Guy looks like a beast now.
 
If you still have abdominal fat that bothers you, the only recourse is to diet down until you're satisfied. If you go this route, then you need to forget about standard HST and use the 5RM cycle to force your body to preserve muscle mass. Start the weights at 65%-70% of 5RM (after a proper SD) and use very small increments to prolong the cycle as long as possible. You can also do HIIT cardio. This is what I am doing right now. My current sets/reps are 4 sets of 5 until I can't progress the weight, then I'll switch to 5 sets of 4 to keep the progression going, and then 7 sets of 3 all the while being in a caloric deficit. If I'm not at my goal weight, then I'll reduce volume while still trying to increase intensity. Volume isn't as important as intensity in a deficit. See the "Dialing up HST for a cut" thread for additional info/tips.
 
T-man said:
If you still have abdominal fat that bothers you, the only recourse is to diet down until you're satisfied. If you go this route, then you need to forget about standard HST and use the 5RM cycle to force your body to preserve muscle mass. Start the weights at 65%-70% of 5RM (after a proper SD) and use very small increments to prolong the cycle as long as possible. You can also do HIIT cardio. This is what I am doing right now. My current sets/reps are 4 sets of 5 until I can't progress the weight, then I'll switch to 5 sets of 4 to keep the progression going, and then 7 sets of 3 all the while being in a caloric deficit. If I'm not at my goal weight, then I'll reduce volume while still trying to increase intensity. Volume isn't as important as intensity in a deficit. See the "Dialing up HST for a cut" thread for additional info/tips.
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Thank you very much. I will definitely check it out
 
T-man said:
Where in Ohio? I am originally from Stark County, Canton-Massillon area.
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Canton.. that rings a bell. I was at the Pro Football HOF 2 years ago thataway. Quite a drive from my area. I live in Hamilton which is about 45mins north of Cincy. Pretty convenient because to see a Reds of Bengals game it's just a short drive.
 
At 27, 5'10", 145 lbs, and 5% BF cutting should be the farthest thing from your mind. You have no fat to get rid of, you just have near zero muscle mass. It's defnitley time for a bulk.

According to this website (http://www.freedieting.com/tools/calorie_calculator.htm) your maintanence calories working out 3 times a week are 2268 cals. To add weight (which you certainly need to) and 10-20%.

So you should roughly be eating 2500-2700 cals a day. Now this is not exact, you will have to adjust as you go to get the desired amount of weight gain.

Here's an interesting video that may apply to you.

 
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Thank you for the video and information. Having yet to gain much muscle mass may be making my problem worse. I've heard that the visceral or "abdominal" fat (which is most concerning to me) is usually the last to go in individuals with a very low bodyfat %. Not sure if that's me or if it is possibly an ectomorph-skinny fat body type.

I didn't realize it until I saw your recommended calorie intake that I am taking in between 2500-2700 calories per day. Ill show you how I break it down and get your advice on if I'm breaking it down the way I should be. So this is the way I usually calculate intake each day. I basically mark down calories eaten at each throughout day from left to right (helps me interpret better):

400 / 350 / 350 / -700 / 400 / 350 / 300 / 300. (-700 is net calorie burn during 1:15 of lifting)

So if we were to go by net calories, net running total would be:

400 / 750 / 1100 / 400 / 800 / 1150 / 1450 / 1750

So for a normal day, if I factor in everything I eat (which hits right at 2500 calories) and then subtract my net calorie burn during lifting (-700), it puts me around 1800, or maybe just a hair lower.

1850-ish is what I've been aiming for (though I need to do a slightly better job of hitting), as my BMR is calculating to be 1540cals. Because I work at a desk job at the moment and am not running around all the time, a modifier of 1.3-4 would be too high, I believe, and because I am not completely sedentary either, a modifier of 1.1 would be too low as well, so I use 1.2. By my math, 1560x1.2 = 1870

Is this a good way to calculate intake for my purposes to hit 2500-2700?
 
Recommendations from the video for possible skinny-fat individuals. Do:

-Lean bulk
-10% surplus.
-Progressive overload barbell routine

90% of calories in small surplus will contribute to new muscle growth.

These sound like good recommendations.
 
eh33 said:
Thank you for the video and information. Having yet to gain much muscle mass may be making my problem worse. I've heard that the visceral or "abdominal" fat (which is most concerning to me) is usually the last to go in individuals with a very low bodyfat %. Not sure if that's me or if it is possibly an ectomorph-skinny fat body type.
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Yea abdominal fat is always the last to go for me, but remember with some more lean mass on your bones, the same amount of fat won't look as bad.

eh33 said:
I didn't realize it until I saw your recommended calorie intake that I am taking in between 2500-2700 calories per day. Ill show you how I break it down and get your advice on if I'm breaking it down the way I should be. So this is the way I usually calculate intake each day. I basically mark down calories eaten at each throughout day from left to right (helps me interpret better):

400 / 350 / 350 / -700 / 400 / 350 / 300 / 300. (-700 is net calorie burn during 1:15 of lifting)

So if we were to go by net calories, net running total would be:

400 / 750 / 1100 / 400 / 800 / 1150 / 1450 / 1750

So for a normal day, if I factor in everything I eat (which hits right at 2500 calories) and then subtract my net calorie burn during lifting (-700), it puts me around 1800, or maybe just a hair lower.
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Personally, I don't even factor in calories burned, just because there's no way to really know how many calories you burn during a work out. Also, this mentality will make you think it's a good idea to eat at maintainence on off days and a surplus on lifting days, this is no good. Eat the same amount everyday. I would track soley the calories you intake, the easiest way is to use a website. I use sparkpeople.com, but there are also many others out there.

eh33 said:
1850-ish is what I've been aiming for (though I need to do a slightly better job of hitting), as my BMR is calculating to be 1540cals. Because I work at a desk job at the moment and am not running around all the time, a modifier of 1.3-4 would be too high, I believe, and because I am not completely sedentary either, a modifier of 1.1 would be too low as well, so I use 1.2. By my math, 1560x1.2 = 1870

Is this a good way to calculate intake for my purposes to hit 2500-2700?
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All the math in the world is still only going to give you estimates. You should track your wieght gain and adjust your calories so that your gaining weight at the rate you desire (for you I'd say 2 lbs a month, 3 tops). Tracking calories and being in a surplus really motivetes you to go lift, because you know that if you don't lift your only putting on fat.

eh33 said:
Recommendations from the video for possible skinny-fat individuals. Do:

-Lean bulk
-10% surplus.
-Progressive overload barbell routine

90% of calories in small surplus will contribute to new muscle growth.

These sound like good recommendations.
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Time to get at it dude. HST with mainly compoud movements will do you good. Don't forget to eat and don't be afraid of weight gain, you can always just cut fat off later.
 
I will implement all of this thread and go at it hard for a while, and post my progress. Thank you VQ35VD, T-Man, Totentanz, Lol, Sci, Old and Grey for your input, & Iako for the first, and very humorous comment on this thread. I now find the humor in it.
 
Like VQ said, do not make the error of eating at maintenance on off days. You need to eat MORE on off days. The day AFTER lifting is when you GROW so that is the day when it is CRITICAL to get in enough calories.

I will warn you right now that you need to get over this fear of fat or you will never get much over 150. I've seen countless guys on these forums like you, who kept flipping out about fat, going on and on about being skinny fat and refusing to properly bulk because they were afraid of getting fat. You need to gain some fat. If you are bulking and not gaining any fat at all, then you are not gaining the maximum amount of muscle you could be. The fact that you are counting calories is good, but like stated in the post above, why are you factoring in calories burned during workouts? You do know that those estimations are horribly unreliable, right? Just ignore that.
Eat the same every day as VQ instructed and start growing. Like he said, you can always cut the fat off later. It isn't like the fat you gain is permanent. Believe me, I have gone on many, many diets and cut my excess fat many, many times. It isn't impossible, it does require willpower to diet down but so does bulking.

Trust me, it wasn't until I stopped being afraid of fat that I started growing. I started out like you, I was sick of being small though and eventually I decided that I had nothing to lose by bulking up. When I joined this site (eight years ago now, wow...) I was around 140 - 150 lbs somewhere, tiny and unhappy with my body. I read everything I could on this site for a good six months, learning everything I can. I encourage you to do the same. After eight years of doing HST, I am 100 lbs heavier than when I joined and I'm not fat. The reason I tell you this is not to stroke my ego, it is because I was in the same boat as you, I know where you are coming from and I'm telling you, what I did is not extraordinary, you don't have to be genetically blessed to do it. You can do it too. Or not. You can be one of the countless dozens who did not have the will to change their bodies. It's up to you. There is no try. You either do it or you don't.
We will all be here to help you if you decide to take the journey.
 
Like I said in my previous post - it is to hit 2500-2700 calories taken in per day. I subtract calories burned during a workout so I can get an appropriate baseline from which to eat for the day. If I didn't do that, some days I would surely eat 2700, while others I would eat 2300, because I would not know, as IceCreamFitness suggests doing, how to hit 10-20% calorie surplus for the day, given that my workout intensity, and thus calorie burn, does vary somewhat from day to day. I'm not knocking your method of counting your calories, this is just the way I count mine. My cal's burned do vary some during workout to workout. At the end of the day, here is what my day looks like:
1 day of normal activity. Almost 1 1/2 hours of weight lifitng. Total calories I'm taking in - about 2500

However, eating at 2500 on my days off is not something I'm doing. I usually hit 2100 on my days off.

I did not know heart-rate & calorie counting monitors were so inarticulate. The University of Tennessee department of Exercise Physiology uses the Polar RS800CX model to track heart rates of test subjects. This is the same monitor I use to count calories. I am unaware of any scientific tests done to test the accuracy of such calorie counting monitors, however this is Polar's top-model for heart rate monitors. I do hope, though, that tests can be done to unequivocally test it's accuracy. There is a degree of tolerance it must have (+/-), and I would like to know what that tolerance is, that way I can rely on it at least somewhat

All in all, I suppose I should bump up cals on my days off to 2500 instead of 2100.
 
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A baseline for what to eat each day?

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. You either eat 2700 calories or you don't. Your baseline is zero. You start at zero calories every day and you either eat enough or you don't. You seem to think that a daily surplus is going to matter. You need to expand your view to something that isn't so narrow. Building muscle isn't about "oh, I gained 67 grams of muscle by eating 172 calories over maintenance today" it is more along the lines of "I gained 2 lbs this week by eating 2700 calories a day." You need to look at things on a weekly and a monthly basis instead. This is all about the long view, not the short.

It is impossible to be as precise as you are attempting to be. Unless you have a calorimeter and you burn all your food to find out the exact amount of calories in every thing you eat, then somehow unburn it and restore it, then eat it, you will never actually know how many calories you are taking in. It is all estimation due to variations in the actual food, since all meats will never be consistent, all plants will never be consistent, no food will ever be exactly the same.
Do you have a scale precise enough to measure thousandths of a gram? If not, then you aren't eating precise portions either. There will be variations in the weight of the food you take in, causing further deviations in your calorie counts.

Calorie counting is all estimation.

Do you really think that your bmr is accurate? Sorry to tell you this, but this is just an estimation as well. We have no way of knowing how your body processes proteins into amino acids and back into proteins, how it stores calories in fat, how you digest your foods, your internal microbial biome is different than anyone else and that effects everything about digestion, not to mention there is cellular respiration, atp formation, whether your cells get more energy from fermentation instead, and so on and so forth. That means that your bmr will never be accurate. Not that it matters anyway, since calorie counts are all just a rough estimation.
By the way, your workouts burn more calories after the workout is over than during the workout. Just fyi. There is a lot more to calories burned from lifting weights than just heart rate. So variations between days of calories probably isn't the way to go.

So all in all, I suppose you should stop doing so much math and just accept the fact that you have less control over this than you thought you did. You aren't going to get more muscular by being uber anal about the numbers. You are going to get bigger by eating and lifting consistently.
 
Totentanz said:
You are going to get bigger by eating and lifting consistently.
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Tot's hitting the nail on the head eh. It really is this simple, don't over complicate things, overwhelm yourself, and give up. I've been counting my cals since April and I've gotten better and better at it, but it's still all just estimation. LIFT. EAT. SLEEP. REPEAT
 
Not to hammer home Totz advice any more, but think of it this way: Follow it and see what happens, if you don't then the changes are you will return to your previous eating and fitness habits/routines and your body will return to what it is now.
 
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