HIGH VOLUME/multiple sets

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(Avi1985 @ Jun. 19 2007,05:29)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">And joe, Why you give each muscle different volume?</div>
First...I don't recommend what I am trying to 90% of the people on here. I have been training for a while now...so I have a good tolerance built up.

That being said this expierement may show to be too much...then again it may be just right!

Ok now to answer your question!
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I don't want to have any shoulder impingement problems that why I use the same amount of sets for chest and back.

However the front delts get hit plenty with Bench press so do the triceps.

With Back you hit the Back, Biceps and rear delts...and upper traps at times.

So right there with Bench / rows you are hitting lots of secondary muscle groups...so IMO there is no need for the same volume for delts.

Also to add even if I did want to do the same volume There is NO way my CNS could handle that many sets with every muscle group...not even if I did a simplifyy and win type routine.

So that is the main reason I am verying the volume...&quot;again its more a routine done right now out of boredom/beach season/ my current cycle went to crap type thing.

What I am trying to do is see if 6 weeks of overeaching proves to be HYPERTROPHIC....my guess is that it will be successful!...however only time will tell how much GROWTH is glycogen based.

Thirdly

I am doing my leg press in a 2 minute TABATA style set.

So basically I am trying to use Higher volume during a maintenance calorie stage to see what happens.

My predictions are it will be successfull due to 6 weeks of overeaching!

Once this cycle is successful...I will most likely need a SD of around 3 weeks.

At that time I will most likely start a 5x5 routine or more likely HST with just 20 reps.

Hope this helps you understand the method to my madeness!
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AVI
If you have to do 5 sets on 5's, you cant do your practice in less than 90 minutes.

i do 6 sets of 5s sometimes,and i have never gone over an hour,i dont take long breaks between sets,never needed to ,maybe others are different,it also depends on how many exercises you have.

4 good exercises only gives you 24sets.
 
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(Joe.Muscle @ Jun. 20 2007,11:29)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
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is this in reply to me
 
Faz, I think it is a reply to Fausto's &quot;Labcoat&quot; comment.

Yikes, I forgot about Tabata... I may have to incorporate that in my cycle!
 
Sorry about the thread hijack, but more comments on ol' Tabata...

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">You need to be able to see a wall clock with a second hand during your four minutes of fun. Stop at twenty seconds, rack the bar (if you choose the front squat), rest ten seconds, grab the bar and go again. Watching the clock seems to help with the focus.

And remember this: you really shouldn’t consider doing much after the Tabata workout. Your lungs will be going like a locomotive engine. Go ahead and plan anything you like, but don’t be surprised if it just doesn’t happen.</div>

http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=04-046-training

I remember last fall trying to do Tabata at the beginning of my workout, and I couldn't do anything because I was so tired. The squats are killer, but I like the &quot;thrusters&quot; that the T-Nation article talks about.

Question: How often do you do Tabata Joe?
 
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(faz @ Jun. 20 2007,03:20)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">AVI
If you have to do 5 sets on 5's, you cant do your practice in less than 90 minutes.

i do 6 sets of 5s sometimes,and i have never gone over an hour,i dont take long breaks between sets,never needed to ,maybe others are different,it also depends on how many exercises you have.

4 good exercises only gives you 24sets.</div>
Sounds odd.
I do 3 sets on the 5's, with 5 exercises, and it takes me 80 minutes. 3 minutes rest beetweb sets, and 3 wormup sets before each exercise.
 
Avi,

I might be doing the math wrong, but if you are doing 3 work sets and 3 warmup sets, that's 6 sets for 5 exercises which is 30 total sets. And 3 minutes of rest between 30 sets = 90 minutes of rest alone.
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Or were you simply referring to your rest between work sets... I know I take at least a minute break between my warmup sets if I'm going heavy and having to build up to it.
 
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(UFGatorDude30 @ Jun. 20 2007,11:05)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Avi,

I might be doing the math wrong, but if you are doing 3 work sets and 3 warmup sets, that's 6 sets for 5 exercises which is 30 total sets. And 3 minutes of rest between 30 sets = 90 minutes of rest alone.
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Or were you simply referring to your rest between work sets... I know I take at least a minute break between my warmup sets if I'm going heavy and having to build up to it.</div>
You don't run around supersetting like a mad man at the gym?

Hmm, well at least it explains the puddles of sweat around me at the end of my workout!
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(faz @ Jun. 19 2007,20:48)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Joe.Muscle @ Jun. 20 2007,11:29)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
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is this in reply to me</div>
Faz,

I was just chuckling at my friend Fausto!
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(Joe.Muscle @ Jun. 20 2007,21:55)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(faz @ Jun. 19 2007,20:48)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Joe.Muscle @ Jun. 20 2007,11:29)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
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is this in reply to me</div>
Faz,

I was just chuckling at my friend Fausto!
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ok mate
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AVI
i just wait untill my mate has done his set and then i do mine even in the heavy 5s,we have always done it that way.
some people need more time than others thats no prob.
 
Oh my!!! So, I'm just finishing up an HST cycle where I extended it quite a bit with max stim...so the weights were getting quite heavy...could only do one rep. Well, after reading this thread, I decided to mix it up when I return from independence vacation. So, now I am testing my 15 rep maxes to go with a 30 count higher volume cycle next round. After getting to around my 15 rep max at this morning's workout (range was 14 to 18), I decided...what the heck. I'll go ahead and extend it to 30. For the most part, I needed about 3 more descending clusters to hit 30. Wow...the pump was phenomenal. Not that this really means anything, but impressive. One other thing...my non aerobic arse was winded. Looking forward to the next cycle with higher volume.
 
I am all for experimenting w/ more volume, especially due to the increase in glycogen (hell i'll take it). However, I DO NOT want to overtrain. I know we are all different, but how many exercises are you guys incorporating into these 30 rep routines?

I was thinking...

Pullups
Incline Bench
Leg Press
DB Side Raises
Seated Rows
Weighted Dips
Situps
DB Curls *
Skulls *

*excluded when cutting


What do you guys think? Will two compounds for each chest and back be too much?
 
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(colby2152 @ Jun. 19 2007,21:29)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"></div>
Question: How often do you do Tabata Joe?

Sorry for the delayed response colby...I just saw your question.

I normally do TABATA this time of year every year...its normally in a much easier way than squats though.

What I normally do to get down to my desired weight is do an Full body routine three times a week.

But my full body routine is a little different for example.

What I did for the past month was the following

Upper Body Circuit

Bench press
Rows
Standing dumbell press
Roman Chair situps

All for 4 sets of 6 to 8 reps with my 8 rep max.

I did 4 cycles of this with only about 1 to 2 minute rest between cycles.

Now given my 6 to 8 rep max is know were near what it normally is b/c its a circuit and the weights are baby weights. (For example dumbell bench press was with 50 pound dumbells) trust me there heavy in this circuit though.

Anyway once I went through this circuit of upperbody 3 to 4 times...I then got a drink of water and went over to the leg press machine.

This is were I do my 2 to 4 minutes of Tabata.
I basically start with my 20 rep max or so and go as fast and explosively as possible for 20 seconds...rack the weight and start after a 10 second break.

I do this for however long I need to 3 times a week to lose bodyfat...I have found its WAY more fun and efficient than cardio...and it holds onto muscle easier than cardio.

NOW that I have done the above program for about 1 month...I am close to my desired Summertime weight...or my BEACH cut.

So what I am doing now is the following to maintain weight and maybe drop even drop a little more...(but not in a intense way)...I am doing the following.

Monday Wed friday

Full body
Hammerstrength wide chest 5 sets of 10 reps (burns like hell) 70% max on weights
Rows ( Same as above)
Side raises 2 sometimes 3 sets of 10 to 12

Tabata leg press

Take a shower

I am all over the map with this routine...I am not tracking weights or anything...I am basically just showing up to the gym 3 times a week to do 2 things...Volume train the beach muscles and burn some calories.

I have been doing this for about 2 weeks now and I look be BEST I have ever looked at this bodyweight!

Its working and I am impressed considering my calorie level is a best a cut or maintenance.

I am not sure how long I can continue to OVERREACH...but it is just what my body needed right now!

Most likely in about 6 more weeks I will SD for 2 to 3 weeks and then a 20 rep HST cycle.

Hope this helps!
 
Bond,
Given the higher volume, my plan is to reduce the number of excercises and altnernate more. Now, if i can only have some self control and avoid the temptation to do squats, tricep and bicep work each time...

A
Squat
Chins
Chest Press
Military Press
Pushdowns

B
Standard deads
Row machine
weighted dips
Lat raises
Curls
 
spartan, I use to have a similar A/B routine. However, I am thinking that increasing the volume and sticking to m,w,f should allow for higher amounts of glycogen stored due to the increase pump.

I usually measure my arms to see the difference pre and post workout. I've been using the routine above using a 15 rep total. This produced results of a 3-8mm pump increase (less of a pump as the weights get heavier). I started the 5s over again yesterday and tried the 30 rep total routine, which produced a 12mm increase post workout.


I am thinking I need to do some carb loading to make use of it so I keep some more thickness the day following the workout as well!

Thoughts?
 
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