Hst And Shoulders

R

Renky

Member
Some time ago I posted about shoulder issues. I could not find the post when I did a search. Anyway... My shoulders seem to be flaring up again. I am coming to think that overhead pressing is just not suited to me. It seems a bit of an un-natural exercise for me and how I am built. I am sure that I am not the only one with shoulder issues, so I wondered what you guys do for alternatives? One idea is that I could try incline bench press to target the shoulders more? Lat raises feel very good for my shoulders, so I will continue with them. Any ideas and opinions? Thanks,
 
Thanks Mick, funny you should suggest this. I was just reading up on these the other day. I don't have the bar for this in my home gym at this stage.
 
Seated face pulls (on low row machine or equivalent with triceps rope and legs braced on frame of machine) and lateral band extensions rehabbed my shoulders and I avoided rotator cuff surgery. Neutral grip DB shoulder presses can keep your shoulders out of the awkward normal press movement position. This goes for pull ups and a whole bunch of exercises that cause you to twist your wrist.
 
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Renky said:
Thanks Mick, funny you should suggest this. I was just reading up on these the other day. I don't have the bar for this in my home gym at this stage.
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Assume you have a bar, just wedge it in a corner or up against a wall, that's how I did it
 
I had to work on my thoracic extension before I could do OHP pain free. I still can't get to the bottom of an overhead sqaut but mobilizing my t-spine did wonders for my overhead work.
 
Thanks guys...

So with the neutral grip dumbbell presses, are these what you mean? -

I also wondered about incline bench press at a 45deg incline or more would work? I think I need to rehab my rotator cuffs and strengthen up the joints again. I did this for a while and then just got away from it became too focused on lifting and lifting.

Thanks.
 
I tried the neutral grip presses and it hurts. Not as bad as the conventional, but it hurts. I persisted a bit with the neutral grip presses and did about 2-3 sets, but when I flt it was not getting better, I stopped. I then switched to lateral raises and front raises, which were fine. I may need to just stop with the presses for this cycle and stick with the other exercises.
What is the consensus on how much the deltoid muscles are recruited with bench pressing?
Thanks.
 
Thanks, I figured this would be the case... I reckon incline bench would be much easier on my shoulders.

I think I will go with some rehab work, lat raises, front raises and then slowly bring in the incline bench. Last time I had shoulder issues were from presses and it seems this is coming back to haunt me. So, I think it is game over for this exercise. Just not worth being "busted up" for the sake of having nice delts.
 
Face pulls, face pulls, face pulls, then external band extensions. If you want to heal thyself. You cannot efficiently grow muscle in an injured area.
 
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Thanks O&G. I have watched a demo video on what these are and how to implement, so I will give it a go. I am still unsure if shoulder presses will be in my routine in the future though. I have read up and it seems that the conventional shoulder presses are frowned on for long term shoulder health.
 
Old and Grey said:
Face pulls, face pulls, face pulls, then external band extensions. If you want to heal thyself. You cannot efficiently grow muscle in an injured area.
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@Renky - just stop doing pressing for a few weeks. Probably still another 40-50 years ahead of you when you'll want to use those bad boy cannonballs.

Just rehab it for a month and worry about pressing in 4-5 weeks.
 
Just seeing this six weeks later. Two things occur to me. First, are you doing militaries, or seated or standing OHPs behind neck? OHPs of the behind neck variety cause impingement of the tendon of the subscapularis (one of the four muscles of the rotator cuff) on every single rep. Sooner or later they will catch up with everyone. No amount of rest or 'rehab' will change the fact that just doing that exercise causes damage to the shoulder. Second, it is fair to say that most lifters who do not have extensive training in anatomy and kinesiology have probably done much more pressing (shoulder medial rotation) work than pulling (shoulder lateral rotation). The resulting imbalances affect posture, producing the 'gym slouch' that is often seen, and cause a lot of problems in the shoulders. Athletes who have done throwing type movements are subject to this as well. A poster above mentions face pulls, which is a great exercise to strenghten the other three rotator cuff muscles and begin to correct imbalances. One very well known trainer and power lifter says he was able to avoid shoulder surgery early in his career by working extensively on rowing, which had the effect of balancing his shoulders and the muscles that support them. Substituting movements like lateral raises or vertical raises bring with them their own issues that need to be considered. I think it is time to do some in depth research on these issues and see what is going on with your shoulder and your routine.
 
I ended up dropping the seated overhead presses (the in front variety, never behind neck) and just have worked on face pulls, lateral raises, front raises and am very slowly trying out standing dumbbell presses (with palms facing in). My shoulders are feeling really good again. I am already quite large now with regards to mass, so I am not sure I want anymore shoulder size anyway, so I may have the luxury to mostly drop the overhead presses (maybe). I am playing it by ear at present.
I still think we are all different and maybe some movements are not suited to certain types of people?
 
An update on shoulders...

I still have not gone back to any type of overhead pressing movement. I think my shoulders will no longer roll with this. I have been working on face pulls and lateral raises. I think this is working well for me as I believe I am seeing my shoulders grow.

I think it is fair to say the shoulders get some minor work from rows, chin ups and bench presses too.
 
If that is working out and you feel growth and mobility, that is great. No reason to mess with the other exercise. And yeah, I think it is fair to say that benches provide the deltoids and shoulders with a lot of work.
 
I actually think my shoulders have improved a lot with development, so I am happy. The thing with face pulls and lateral raises is that I have no pain from them.

A lot of the older guys all seem to have shoulder issues, so I am hoping to dodge that like crazy.
 
One thing to watch with overhead pressing is form. People don't think about it too much because they think overhead pressing is rather straightforward. But... the truth is a little different. Form is critical. I actually hate seated overhead pressing with a barbell, you really restrict yourself from doing the movements you need to do when pressing a large weight overhead. Standing military pressing is better, in my experience. When you do seated presses, people tend to push their body back into the seat and try to remain fixed with just their arms moving the weight. This isn't how it should happen. For example, your head should move forward through the "window" your arms create as the weight goes up. Make sure you do this after the bar has passed your chin, slamming that mother into the bottom of your jaw as it goes up does indeed hurt. Lyle Mcdonald wrote up a good bit about military press but I can't find it at the moment. I'll try to dig it up and post it later.

Push presses are great too. I also like doing face pulls at the end of my workout.

But why does it seem like so many older guys have shoulder issues? Obviously some of that is just age. Our joints aren't as fluid and everything isn't as flexible as when we are younger. That's the same reason why young children can sleep on a floor rolled into a position that would leave any of us hunched over and crippled the next day.
However... I think some of this is too much emphasis on pushing movements. You've heard this a million times, I'm sure, but your back, chest and shoulders need to be balanced. Do pulling exercises in combination with the pushing exercises. Another thing is that a lot of people try harder on benching then take it easy on rows because rows are hard. You need to pour equal effort into both sides of the body. If you have more chest and shoulder exercises than you do back exercises, you need to evaluate your routine.
 
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