Is this guy "on juice"?
- Thread starter HST_Rihad
- Start date
Doesn't really matter. I know guys on steroids who don't bench that much. I know of a couple naturals who do bench that much. He looks big but he also doesn't really look very lean at all, so its possible he's natural. Doesn't really matter, either way it took a lot of hard work to get where he is.
I don't know about that particular guy. In general, I'd say that level of mass is within the reach of the average Joe without AAS, assuming that Joe is willing to train and eat (and wait!) for it. I don't know about a 400# BP, though. While hardly world class, lots of guys seem to injure their shoulders long before getting to that level, and are then shut out from it completely.
HST_Rihad
Active Member
AlexAustralia, he is 5.10 - 5.11 high (180 cm.)
The guy himself is somewhat interested in how he will be assessed by others. A small correction: on that picture he's about 220 lbs BW (about 100 kg). Now he's 242 BW (110 kg) and his current sling shot BP is 408x3 (185 kg x 3).
The guy himself is somewhat interested in how he will be assessed by others. A small correction: on that picture he's about 220 lbs BW (about 100 kg). Now he's 242 BW (110 kg) and his current sling shot BP is 408x3 (185 kg x 3).
Last edited:
A lean 220 (meaning sub-10% bodyfat) at that height is not possible for a natural. If he wasn't lean, it's possible. I'm around 250 at about 6'1 and I'm pretty much pushing the boundaries of natural myself and I don't look as big as that guy, although I'm definitely not contest lean so that isn't a great comparison, to be fair, I did use some superdrol back in the day when it was legal also.
Overall, hard to say because we don't know how lean he is because all you can really see are his arms and traps, we don't know if he has any mass in his legs because it's a waist up picture. Alex is right about the delts, typically AAS causes specific growth patterns due to the larger number of androgen receptors in the delts and traps, which gives sort of a classic steroid look - which looks relatively normal to the public now thanks to widespread use of AAS in hollywood and in all the magazines, etc, which is why most people wouldn't notice unless they knew this information somehow. However, given the widespread prevalence of AAS usage (I know literally dozens of guys who use) and how insanely easy it is to get them, odds are that he does use.
And who cares? I really don't care. Like I've said before, AAS are not some magic bullet that make you Arnold with just one cycle. I know guys who use and look like crap. It still takes a lot of hard work and dedication to grow even if you are using drugs.
Overall, hard to say because we don't know how lean he is because all you can really see are his arms and traps, we don't know if he has any mass in his legs because it's a waist up picture. Alex is right about the delts, typically AAS causes specific growth patterns due to the larger number of androgen receptors in the delts and traps, which gives sort of a classic steroid look - which looks relatively normal to the public now thanks to widespread use of AAS in hollywood and in all the magazines, etc, which is why most people wouldn't notice unless they knew this information somehow. However, given the widespread prevalence of AAS usage (I know literally dozens of guys who use) and how insanely easy it is to get them, odds are that he does use.
And who cares? I really don't care. Like I've said before, AAS are not some magic bullet that make you Arnold with just one cycle. I know guys who use and look like crap. It still takes a lot of hard work and dedication to grow even if you are using drugs.
Dbl'ing up what Totentanz just said, steroids take a lot of work to make effective. Heavy lifting and prodigious food intake. It isn't like a Tobey Maguire in Spiderman effect, wake up the next day and you're shredded.
The other thing that makes me wonder a lot is the giant puncture wound on his right arm. The #'s are also pretty suspect.
The other thing that makes me wonder a lot is the giant puncture wound on his right arm. The #'s are also pretty suspect.
In general, naturals cannot be lean and more than 10 lbs or so over 200 unless they are 6' or taller. Go to a natural BBing show some time. Even the 6' tall guys are coming in around 180 - and they do still look pretty good sized at this weight, but it's nowhere near the size of the guys in the muscle magazines or at the olympia. Obviously these guys are in contest shape, so take them up to 10% bodyfat or so and you'll find them closer to 200 or maybe 210 at the top end. But human genetics are not changed by any training program or diet scheme, so you will not see naturals larger than that until genetic engineering or gene therapy becomes widespread. Anyone bigger than that is most likely on drugs or else not lean.
Keep in mind that even one cycle of AAS usage permanently increases growth potential even if you remain natural later on. So if you see guys above the range I stated above, they most likely ran some cycles in the past. A good way to judge natural or assisted is fat free mass index. Naturals top out at 26, and we are talking elite top level natural bodybuilders here. If someone is over 26 then they most likely are or were at one time assisted. For example, Steve Reeves, who most likely was natural, was just about 26. I think 25.7 or something like that, and that is at his peak. Obviously Stevie had world class genetics for muscle growth, so if your bro up there is over that number, he's either on the juice or used some the past.
I guess there might be some special situations that go outside of these guidelines. For example, I have a mutant bone structure that makes me weigh significantly more than I would appear to. Obviously this would skew my ffmi a bit, and yes, my ffmi is like 27 or something, which is outside of the natural range, but I'm pretty sure situations that would legitimately skew the ffmi over the natural limit like that are pretty rare. Your bro most likely isn't one of those people.
Keep in mind that even one cycle of AAS usage permanently increases growth potential even if you remain natural later on. So if you see guys above the range I stated above, they most likely ran some cycles in the past. A good way to judge natural or assisted is fat free mass index. Naturals top out at 26, and we are talking elite top level natural bodybuilders here. If someone is over 26 then they most likely are or were at one time assisted. For example, Steve Reeves, who most likely was natural, was just about 26. I think 25.7 or something like that, and that is at his peak. Obviously Stevie had world class genetics for muscle growth, so if your bro up there is over that number, he's either on the juice or used some the past.
I guess there might be some special situations that go outside of these guidelines. For example, I have a mutant bone structure that makes me weigh significantly more than I would appear to. Obviously this would skew my ffmi a bit, and yes, my ffmi is like 27 or something, which is outside of the natural range, but I'm pretty sure situations that would legitimately skew the ffmi over the natural limit like that are pretty rare. Your bro most likely isn't one of those people.
Last edited:
Sci
Well-Known Member
Although that is a little depressing to read, I would be pretty happy to be 200 lb.s and 10% bodyfat (at 6'1"). Right now I am more likely 15-20% bodyfat at those stats. It seems like natural bodybuilders should aim for, and be happy with, the "lean fitness look", as getting "HUGE" just isn't realistic for most people. Basically I think I am only going to keep bulking until I have filled out my chest and can bench press 315 or so, and then come down to 10-12% bodyfat. Then I'll be happy to just maintain what muscle I have. At my age, the closer I stay to those levels the better. (10-12% bodyfat).
Yeah, the whole steroid phenomenon is interesting. It does seem that a lot of people do take some sort of "stuff". I am not that knowledgeable on the synthetic compounds various people use. I do feel that what Tote and Alex say is close to the mark though. Even if you take steroids, you still need to work hard in the gym and diet well. The steroids do seem to speed up your results though. I have seen some of these Hollywood Actors (not naming any names) totally transform their bodies in 6 months. I am talking BIG changes. The speed of the transformation is an indicator to me that there is some sort of chemical assistance involved. When you see these results, you can see why steroids are a tempting commodity.
I always think of Arnold though and his admittance to taking Dianabol. Some years later after his bodybuilding career was over, he was in having heart surgery. May be a coincidence, but I have always wondered if this was a result of his steroid use. I have done some study on the old school bodybuilders and from what I have read some are saying their bodies are now paying a price for what they took back in the day. A couple of retired bodybuilders I read about were quoted as saying they have suffered strokes, heart attacks etc and this is a direct result of what they took. Again, I am no Doc or even fully understand how the various steroids work, but I have always been concerned about the side effects that can result. I feel that we don't talk about the negatives of steroid taking and what it can do to our bodies. I am not sure what Brian Haycock's take is on this...
I am 6ft tall and current weight is about 210lbs. I would estimate (at a rough guess) that my body fat must now be at around 15%. I want to work my way down to about 12% body fat and I think that will be a good maintainable level.
I always think of Arnold though and his admittance to taking Dianabol. Some years later after his bodybuilding career was over, he was in having heart surgery. May be a coincidence, but I have always wondered if this was a result of his steroid use. I have done some study on the old school bodybuilders and from what I have read some are saying their bodies are now paying a price for what they took back in the day. A couple of retired bodybuilders I read about were quoted as saying they have suffered strokes, heart attacks etc and this is a direct result of what they took. Again, I am no Doc or even fully understand how the various steroids work, but I have always been concerned about the side effects that can result. I feel that we don't talk about the negatives of steroid taking and what it can do to our bodies. I am not sure what Brian Haycock's take is on this...
I am 6ft tall and current weight is about 210lbs. I would estimate (at a rough guess) that my body fat must now be at around 15%. I want to work my way down to about 12% body fat and I think that will be a good maintainable level.
Last edited:
On the subject of "Natural" bodybuilders..... Has anyone checked out Jeff Willet or Skip Lacour? These guys emphatically claim they are "Natural". I am not 100% sure with Skip, but I tend to believe Jeff. So based on Jeff, there is some hope for bodybuilders with adding muscle "Naturally"?
There is another guy I have seen around (Victor Costa) and he claims to be all natural as well. He has put this steroid test on his site to prove his claim
http://www.vicsnatural.com/pages/about/results.php
His physique is not freakishly big, but he has some pretty decent measurements in my opinion...
There is another guy I have seen around (Victor Costa) and he claims to be all natural as well. He has put this steroid test on his site to prove his claim
http://www.vicsnatural.com/pages/about/results.php
His physique is not freakishly big, but he has some pretty decent measurements in my opinion...
Doesn't matter if they pass a test. Like I said, past AAS usage permanently increases your growth potential. Do you know how many "naturals" are former AAS users? The longest injectable esters are only detectable for 6-9 months at the upper end. All he has to do is take a year off from usage and he can then pass a test. There is no test to see if someone used in the past aside from the one I mentioned - fat free mass index. If they have a fat free mass index over 26, then they used at some point in the past and are not lifetime naturals.
Do you want to see the biggest a natural can realistically get? Look up Tommy Jeffers aka "Sporto" - he is probably the biggest a natural can get and I'm pretty sure he is barely 200 lbs when in contest shape.
You have to realize that AAS are illegal in most places, so obviously people aren't going to admit to usage.
Do you want to see the biggest a natural can realistically get? Look up Tommy Jeffers aka "Sporto" - he is probably the biggest a natural can get and I'm pretty sure he is barely 200 lbs when in contest shape.
You have to realize that AAS are illegal in most places, so obviously people aren't going to admit to usage.
Yup, some form of steroid use. The delts-traps region is just too massive compared to his triceps in part but especially his pecs. Natural lifters, in my opinion, tend to have a more pronounced pectoral shape, in terms of visual perception, because it isn't obscured or 'hooded' by the enormous delts and upper traps that steroids will lead to. I have fairly pronounced delts myself, a natural, and it's just relative to my body shape, but unless he's Dwight Howard's half-brother, I can't see how he isn't/wasn't using. Nothing wrong with that by the way, there is absolutely a 'safe' way to use steroids just as there is any other pharmaceutical product. All 'drugs' are poison if improperly administered or over-used. Hell, paracetamol is lethal so I don't have any issue with ppl using 'roids, and the criminalisation of them is one of the more moronic statements that (predominantly) western governments have made.
Based on your log photos, you look a LOT closer to 15 than 20% bf.
There's a lot of talk that Chris Hemsworth used HGH for his Thor work, at least in Australia there is. Brad Pitt almost certainly hit something for Troy. For '300', I doubt there was a chemical in sight. Those guys weren't especially big and you can (roughly) see the lack of chemical assistance from their shape and size. Hugh Jackman is almost certainly 100% natural. If you watch his films and earlier Australian work you'll see a progression over a period of ~10years (especially if you see how much smaller he was in X-Men compared to X2 then say, Australia or Wolverine: Origins), and being 6'4 gives a massive advantage too.
I really wouldn't link Arnold's surgery to his steroid use. At least, not directly. We could talk about this point for months though.
Bingo.
Sci
Well-Known Member
I respectfully disagree. His delts and traps are not THAT big really, and he is carrying quite a bit of bodyfat, which gives a strong illusion of larger muscles. If he cut down his bodyfat, he would look more impressive, but not quite as large. I don't know, he looks borderline natural to me. I go to a gym where there are quite a bit of users and non-users alike, and the users are generally pretty obvious, but this guy could just be a very big natural. He looks like he has big-bones and a large frame, so he could easily get that big naturally. Of course, he could be using, I am just saying that he is not so massive that he "definitely steroid use."
He isn't stupid massive obviously, no one would ever offer his name and IFBB in the same sentence etc.
But for me, when you pair up the #'s given with the pics ... I'd say it's prob. 70-30 that he's using or has used. And again, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. For myself, I certainly intend to get a script from the doctor once I'm into my 40's, low testosterone levels are extremely unhealthy (I'm pretty sure Old&Grey would back me up on this).
I suppose my reasoning has always fallen within the realm of Occam's Razor, the simplest explanation being the most likely. He certainly could be a natural, and putting it down to a mix of cell-phone capture, genetics, 'big bones' (if that actually exists in any meaningful degree) etc. Most likely he's just had some help.
But for me, when you pair up the #'s given with the pics ... I'd say it's prob. 70-30 that he's using or has used. And again, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. For myself, I certainly intend to get a script from the doctor once I'm into my 40's, low testosterone levels are extremely unhealthy (I'm pretty sure Old&Grey would back me up on this).
I suppose my reasoning has always fallen within the realm of Occam's Razor, the simplest explanation being the most likely. He certainly could be a natural, and putting it down to a mix of cell-phone capture, genetics, 'big bones' (if that actually exists in any meaningful degree) etc. Most likely he's just had some help.
I've seen several lads on the sauce who went through this phase. They went on to get much larger. If this guy is not 'roiding he'll probably stay at about this size. On the other hand, if he is, he probably won't want to stop just yet and so he'll keep getting bigger. If he diets down and maintains a ton of size then you'll have your answer.
Like Totz said, for a while now, Tommy Jeffers, aka 'Sporto', has been the guy to check out to see what's possible without drugs if you have great genetics. Think he suffered a nasty car accident a year or so ago. I'm not sure what his situation is right now? I think he was around 220lb at the time. Def worth a Google. He was posting some pretty big numbers for his lifts before he had to take time off.
Like Totz said, for a while now, Tommy Jeffers, aka 'Sporto', has been the guy to check out to see what's possible without drugs if you have great genetics. Think he suffered a nasty car accident a year or so ago. I'm not sure what his situation is right now? I think he was around 220lb at the time. Def worth a Google. He was posting some pretty big numbers for his lifts before he had to take time off.
That's because you haven't researched steroids enough. I have. The only reason I'm not on a cycle right now is because of legality. As long as you are not an idiot and don't do the whole "more is better" mentality that so many people do, you can use steroids responsibly to surpass your genetic limits. Steroids do amazing things, there is a reason that every single athlete in the entire united states is on some kind of drug right now. Obviously (like anything, including weightlifting) if you do not go about it in a responsible way, then you are a moron. Note that to become Ronnie Coleman takes more than just "responsible usage" of AAS so don't think that I'm saying that it is possible to become Ronnie by using steroids properly.
Last edited: