Korte's program

Discussion in 'Strength-Specific Training (SST)' started by scientific muscle, Jan 27, 2007.

  1. stevejones

    stevejones Member

    I amazed myself last night.  I deadlifted 790 lbs, just a little more than I have ever done in the past.  I'm getting closer and closer to 800, so frikken close.  I'm not positive, but if the bar was a longer deadlift bar (7 1/2 feet), I might be able to pull 800.   I rested for 15 minutes and went for 800, but couldn't get past my knees.  Is it easier to pull weight when it's close to your body or spread farther out?

    This pursuit of strength can be pretty confusing and unpredictable at times.  Last week I thought I had lost weight in both the deadlift and bench press (still might have in the bench, haven't tested yet), but last night I just kept pulling weights up that continued to shock me and my little audience of gym rats in Denver. So, hopefully my bench press effort will go as well on Wednesday.  I don't know why I seemed to be so much stronger than just 7 days ago.  I guess I just needed more time to recuperate. Diet has been the same food every day, so that's not it.  Guess I'll never know for sure, so all I can do is just keep following programs and continue to hope for the best.  I estimate my bodyfat to be at 14% right now.  The calipers say 11.5% so 14% is probably a good estimation.  I'm 9 lbs heavier than I was during my powerlifting competition about 8 months ago.  Never takes me long to put on weight, just takes forever to lose it.  

    So, Korte's program of deadlifting 3 times per week has improved my deadlift after all, and I'm very satisfied with my bodyfat as well.  Everyone operates best at different bodyfat levels, but I don't think it's possible for anyone to be very strong (very strong meaning close to their genetic potential) with bodyfat under 10% , unless they're on drugs. So, as far as I'm concerned I'm not too fat, but not a lean weakling either.  

    If I can get a raw 465 with a good pause on the bench on Wednesday I'll be happy, but what I'm really looking forward to is the squat.  Squatting 3 times per week has really boosted my strength in that lift, and I think my effort on Friday is going to be impressive.  Then, I will be finished with Korte...think I'll move on with a 4 week sheiko plan (http://web.archive.org/web/20050505072453/www.zyworld.com/powerlifting/sheikotraining1.htm ), which should pound me into submission and then allow plenty of time to recover to tear the crap out of some weights in the shawn ray classic.    

    I won't be much of a contender in the Shawn Ray because I only do olympic squats now and refuse to train in a bench shirt like I did for my last meet, so will just do the whole thing raw & with a low squat.  Bench shirts are such a huge pain in the ass, and even squat suits suck when you wear them for training.  So, while I am against equipment, I'm bothered more by the difficulty of training with equipment then I am wearing it for an event.  Training with shirts is no joke.  It's painful.  Wish there was a good 100% raw meet in colorado this year but I can't find any. Rant over


    Back to Korte----These gains just go to show you that you need to stick with a program and give it a chance to work, no matter how anxious or worried you are that it's not doing any good.  Sometimes you just don't know until you're done.  It's ok to whine and bitch, JUST DON'T GIVE UP ON THE PROGRAM UNTIL YOU'RE FINISHED with at least one cycle.  Anyway, I'm pretty much 100% powerlifter now, so won't be hanging out here much.  However, wanted to keep updating with Korte's program until I'm finished with it.
     
  2. Bulldog

    Bulldog Active Member

    That's great news Steve! Glad to hear it worked out in the dead lift for you. Hopefully your bench will go up as well.

    I would love to see some video of you pulling that kind of weight some time. I'm guessing that even if you were at 10% BF and called yourself a weakling, you would still be stonger than most people could ever hope to be.

    What forums will you be hanging out at now that you are not really interested in bodybuilding anymore? I would like to see what kind of progress you continue to make as well as pick up some more strength techniques.

    Good luck with the power lifting!
     
  3. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    I'd like to keep up with you as well, ol' bud, and no need to be a stranger here - I believe lifters are lifters, regardless.

    Besides, who's gonna give you any guff? [​IMG]
     
  4. scientific muscle

    scientific muscle New Member

    790 is awesome...hairs away from the mighty, elite 800 club.

    Steve, what forum will you be hanging in? I started a log at westsidebarbell/elitefitness but gave it up after getting no response there.

    I have decided to simply make the SST section here more active with my own presence! I haven't been able to find a better lifting forum...bar none this is the best. [​IMG]
     
  5. Lol

    Lol Super Moderator Staff Member

    Steve: a thought on the width of the bar:

    Depending on the quality of the steel, a wider bar will allow a little more flexion. This could allow you perhaps an extra inch vertically before you take up the full load. Doesn't sound much but it could be significant if you are within a hairs breadth of getting the lift. A really stiff 7.5 ft Eleiko bar might not bend that much though.

    Other than that, I can't see how having the load further away from your body is going to be a help or a hindrance. You might find it more difficult to judge grabbing the bar with each hand equidistant from the centre, but I doubt it. The knurling would be your guide and should be accurate.

    One other thing to bare in mind is that a lot of plates in regular gyms are pretty inaccurate. When you are using a lot of plates you would hope that the errors would average out, but if you really want to know you have lifted 800lbs you are going to have to use a competition bar and plates.

    Great pull by the way! [​IMG]
     
  6. stevejones

    stevejones Member

    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">One other thing to bare in mind is that a lot of plates in regular gyms are pretty inaccurate</div>
    True, you can't be sure how much you're really pulling unless it's in an actual meet.
    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Steve, what forum will you be hanging in?  I started a log at westsidebarbell/elitefitness but gave it up after getting no response there.</div>
    I don't know.  Was thinking about making an acct and going to the the plifting section over at intensemuscle but no one really talks much there either.  What I really want to do is discipline myself to stay away from forums for awhile and get through all these steroid books I need to read.
     
  7. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    <div>
    (Lol @ Mar. 27 2007,22:23)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Steve:You might find it more difficult to judge grabbing the bar with each hand equidistant from the centre, but I doubt it. The knurling would be your guide and should be accurate.</div>
    I seem to remember reading that when using an opposing grip, the pronated hand should be just slightly farther out to equalize the shoulders.
     
  8. Lifting N Tx

    Lifting N Tx New Member

    <div>
    (stevejones @ Mar. 27 2007,04:19)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I amazed myself last night. I deadlifted 790 lbs, just a little more than I have ever done in the past. I'm getting closer and closer to 800, so frikken close. I'm not positive, but if the bar was a longer deadlift bar (7 1/2 feet), I might be able to pull 800. I rested for 15 minutes and went for 800, but couldn't get past my knees. Is it easier to pull weight when it's close to your body or spread farther out?
    </div>
    That's a heckuva DL, Steve. The fellow who posted that stuff on proportions and Sumo vs conventional likes Konstantin Konstantinovs (sp), and has talked about how Konstantinovs pulls with a rounded upper back but flat lower back. Helpful especially for those who don't have really long arms. It's gotta take an awfully strong mid-upper back to pull over 950 that way, though.

    <div>
    (stevejones @ Mar. 27 2007,04:19)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
    I won't be much of a contender in the Shawn Ray because I only do olympic squats now and refuse to train in a bench shirt like I did for my last meet, so will just do the whole thing raw &amp; with a low squat. Bench shirts are such a huge pain in the ass, and even squat suits suck when you wear them for training. So, while I am against equipment, I'm bothered more by the difficulty of training with equipment then I am wearing it for an event. Training with shirts is no joke. It's painful. Wish there was a good 100% raw meet in colorado this year but I can't find any. Rant over</div>

    I thought I saw a comparison of federations somewhere that showed USAPL allowed little in the way of shirts/suits that gave assistance. Maybe it was single ply as opposed to multiple? So these records are assisted by squat suits and bench shirts? I had thought maybe not, since they're in the general vicinity of what I remembered seeing as a kid before all the equipment changes. Squat/DL in the 900s and bench in the 700s for the big guys.
     
  9. Lifting N Tx

    Lifting N Tx New Member

    I guess it's slightly under 950 for Konstantinovs' WR DL. Here is a video of it. About 6 months earlier, before Bolton and Magnusson set their records, it would have been the best at any bodyweight. This is probably the comment by Dominik that I was thinking of about Konstantinovs' form. I think that he also said somewhere that Konstantinovs said he was stuck at a much lower weight before he modified his form.
     
  10. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    Which raises the question as to how does he get the upper back to round without rounding the lower back. When I try it, they both go round. I can, however, sort of slump my shoulders forward, but I thought they were just supposed to be neutral.
     
  11. stevejones

    stevejones Member

    <div>
    (Lifting N Tx @ Mar. 28 2007,12:43)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I thought I saw a comparison of federations somewhere that showed USAPL allowed little in the way of shirts/suits that gave assistance. Maybe it was single ply as opposed to multiple? So these records are assisted by squat suits and bench shirts? I had thought maybe not, since they're in the general vicinity of what I remembered seeing as a kid before all the equipment changes. Squat/DL in the 900s and bench in the 700s for the big guys.</div>
    Yeah, all those records are shirted. You're only allowed to wear single ply, and shirt has to be above elbows with no folds in it.
     
  12. Lifting N Tx

    Lifting N Tx New Member

    <div>
    (quadancer @ Mar. 28 2007,15:41)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Which raises the question as to how does he get the upper back to round without rounding the lower back. When I try it, they both go round. I can, however, sort of slump my shoulders forward, but I thought they were just supposed to be neutral.</div>
    I haven't tried it as I've been more concerned with trying to keep a 30 degree angle with the lower back. It does seem like it'd be hard.

    I also found the post where Dominik talks more about Konstantinovs' training. Apparently he found an article in Russian and translated it. Interesting stuff.

    Looking it over again, I see his secret. Excerpt from the routine under the heading &quot;Deadlifts from the floor&quot;:
    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
    860 x 4
    </div>

    Now that I know the secret I'll just add a set of deadlifts @860x4 to my training and I'm sure I'll be pulling over 900 in no time! [​IMG]
     
  13. Slapshotz

    Slapshotz New Member

    Wow, great lifts, Steve. You definitely need to put a vid on you-tube or something so we can check out da man in action.

    To truly showcase what an ignoramus I am when it comes to powerlifting (even though i consider myself a powerlifter at this point), I don't even have a clue about what equipment p-lifters use (vests, special shirts, and singlets...oh, my!). The only things I used to use were the back belt &amp; knee wraps, but gave them up a month ago b/c they were too dammed uncomfortable.

    If I really wanted to compete, i suppose I'd have to gain weight....but it was just too fricking hard to take it off for me to wanna put it back on! [​IMG]
     
  14. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    Uh, Steve gave me an addy for the PL stats that I checked out. They posted the top 20 in each class, and in the master's (50 and up) of the 220 and below class, where I'd be, I would have posted in the lower middle of the chart. I was blown away that I could even be ON the chart!!!
    Of course you wouldn't be going up against a bunch of old farts, but with your stats, I'd bet you'll place!
     
  15. Slapshotz

    Slapshotz New Member

    <div>
    (quadancer @ Mar. 28 2007,22:31)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Uh, Steve gave me an addy for the PL stats that I checked out. They posted the top 20 in each class, and in the master's (50 and up) of the 220 and below class, where I'd be, I would have posted in the lower middle of the chart. I was blown away that I could even be ON the chart!!!
    Of course you wouldn't be going up against a bunch of old farts, but with your stats, I'd bet you'll place!</div>
    I think you gave it to me, too...I remember seeing a 160+ guy do a dead for @600 pounds. That, obviously, was the winner, but for my age/weight, I'd be in the top 1/4. 600 doesn't seem likely in this lifetime [​IMG]
     
  16. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    I think you should go put your lil' squirrel butt in a comp anyway; as Steve said, just to get your name on the books. And to be THAT high on the list, you could come home with something from a local event. How cool is THAT!
     
  17. stevejones

    stevejones Member

    Powerlifting is really screwed up.  All these organizations use different rules and the dumbasses can't ever decide on a standard for anything.  I  guess there are too many guys who like to see a guy in a triple ply denim move a thousand pounds 3 inches.  I don't get it. The different standards go beyond equipment, there are different standards for form too.   It's a real mess.  If I were you I'd search out a local meet, study their rules, and maybe enter a comp or two to just have fun with it.  The meets I've attended are pretty easy going, and there isn't very much stress placed on anyone.  You don't see too many jackasses walking around sticking out their chests and staring anyone down like you see sometimes at gyms.   Nobody is really watching except family members anyway, lol.  
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I AM FINALLY FINISHED WITH KORTE.  

    Results:  bench press---from somewhere between 455 and 460 TO 470 (excellent)
             deadlift----from 775 TO 790 (excellent)
             squat-----  from 680 TO  [​IMG]?[​IMG]  (sucked)

    Today was my last day of the Korte program. I gave 100% effort on the squat, and failed--miserably.  I didn't even get close to getting out of the hole.  The descent was good and I had high hopes, but once  my hams were on my calves I didn't have the remotest possibility of getting that weight up.  It barely budged.  I was really surprised, as I thought my squat had increased the most out of all the lifts and I expected to actually surpass my goal of 715.  Slightly strained my lower abdominal wall next to my groin trying to push it up, so will have to take it easy for a few days so that doesn't lead to a hernia.  

    Strength gains are so unpredictable.  I can't ever tell my body what to do or where to get stronger, it just does it's own thing.  I can't believe that the bench press turned out to be where I have my biggest gains, and the squat turned out to be the least.  I imagine I can do 700, but can't be sure, and I'm certainly not going to be retesting it anytime soon.  At least I'm stronger in all lifts (I think).  I've learned my lesson. I will not ever critique a program until I'm finished with it. This was a good Program.  Now, onto Boris's game plan
     
  18. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    I thought you didn't want to be a glutton for punishment anymore...now you want to run with the russians!!!

    I can't wait to say my 680 squat attempt sucked! [​IMG]
     
  19. stevejones

    stevejones Member

    <div>
    (quadancer @ Mar. 31 2007,06:27)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I thought you didn't want to be a glutton for punishment anymore...now you want to run with the russians!!!

    I can't wait to say my 680 squat attempt sucked!  [​IMG]</div>
    I can handle it (doesn't mean I won't complain though)as long as it's dual factor and I get some time to recover.  I'll do 4 weeks of this stuff and then I'm going to switch to 4 weeks of competition phase Korte so I can recover from it.  

    If it's not &quot;dual factor&quot; and I don't get a chance to recover, I'm toast.  That's what I hated so much about that MN junk...go to failure, all the time every day every set---FOREVER.  I don't know how Francesco does it.
     
  20. Lol

    Lol Super Moderator Staff Member

    Steve, what did you actually have on the bar when you failed? Was it 715? If you had got a 700 squat, that's only 40lbs off a 2k total. Very cool. How much do you reckon you would drop if you had to do all the lifts the same day (like at a meet)?

    Max lifts are very odd things and so much to do with the state of mind as well as the state of the body. Take today as an example: I had a mate pop in who has really strong grip (works on cars) and got out my CoC grippers. He had a go at the No1 and didn't quite get it. Wow! I was really suprised. So suprised, in fact, that I grabbed the No. 2 and crushed it! First time I've ever done it all the way so I'm sure that I was more psyched than usually plus I hadn't done lots of warmups.
     

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