HST_Rihad
Active Member
Theoretically one can
"3. Bodyrecomposition. Simultaneous muscle gain and fat loss."Although it does require meticulous macro counting...
LeanGains
- Thread starter HST_Rihad
- Start date
"3. Bodyrecomposition. Simultaneous muscle gain and fat loss."Although it does require meticulous macro counting...
HST_Rihad
Active Member
Come on, that's like 20 McD hamburgers in terms of food volume & GI tract load. Even I could probably eat that much food within 8 hours on workout days, although it's exactly twice bigger than what my bulking needs are.
Theoretically one can
Although it does require meticulous macro counting...
Not ... possible. According to everyone. Take a proper androgen stack if that's your goal.
You brought it up ... ??
Sci
Well-Known Member
Hstrihad, it seems like you are looking for the magic bullet for training and diet. For awhile you were cutting and pasting Bryan's stuff, then Borge's stuff, now Martin's stuff, in an attempt to argue that you can somehow tweak your training and diet to grow muscle and lose fat simultaneously.
It doesn't exist, which is why steroids are so popular...they are a kind of 'magic' in a sense.
It doesn't exist, which is why steroids are so popular...they are a kind of 'magic' in a sense.
Martin's clients are still doing a form of bulking and cutting. It's entirely possible (not saying likely, not saying unlikely, just possible) that his IF protocol is close to optimal for a non-assisted muscle gain, low fat physique. Someone has to have the closest-to-optimal diet plan, it is possible that what he's doing is it.
However, nothing can change that you cannot turn fat cells into muscle cells. Nor can you lose (fat) and gain (muscle) weight simultaneously. The hormonal pathways involved in muscle gain and fat loss don't function at the same time (in simple terms). An androgen stack would correct this and TBH, sounds exactly like what you're seeking.
Quoting crap from Martin doesn't make it true. The phrase 'body recomposition' is used in two different forms;
1. To lose fat and gain muscle, separately, and over extended periods of time to the degree that a 'before' and 'after' profile of the body, detailing composition would show a recomposition by constituent parts. This is possible.
2. To 'replace' fat with muscle simultaneously. Short of growth spurts up until ~ 16-18 years old, this is not possible without using steroids and//or HGH (and if you're going to do chems, for God's sake don't do HGH, no need to burn out your telomeres ahead of time).
Your body can gain muscle or lose fat, but it can't do both together under usual circumstances. Martin saying it can happen doesn't make it the truth. I tend to think that your training would be much smoother and effective if you weren't jumping from one idol to another and just knuckled down to get it done. You talk about not wanting to be 20-25% bf; well cut down properly then. Stop eating your McDonald's burgers, drop the calories until the fat falls off and apply the protein and load stimulus to retain as much muscle as possible. It works for everyone, it will work for you. Then, when you want to get bigger, eat in surplus with high protein and lift heavy using clusters and high rep work.
However, nothing can change that you cannot turn fat cells into muscle cells. Nor can you lose (fat) and gain (muscle) weight simultaneously. The hormonal pathways involved in muscle gain and fat loss don't function at the same time (in simple terms). An androgen stack would correct this and TBH, sounds exactly like what you're seeking.
Quoting crap from Martin doesn't make it true. The phrase 'body recomposition' is used in two different forms;
1. To lose fat and gain muscle, separately, and over extended periods of time to the degree that a 'before' and 'after' profile of the body, detailing composition would show a recomposition by constituent parts. This is possible.
2. To 'replace' fat with muscle simultaneously. Short of growth spurts up until ~ 16-18 years old, this is not possible without using steroids and//or HGH (and if you're going to do chems, for God's sake don't do HGH, no need to burn out your telomeres ahead of time).
Your body can gain muscle or lose fat, but it can't do both together under usual circumstances. Martin saying it can happen doesn't make it the truth. I tend to think that your training would be much smoother and effective if you weren't jumping from one idol to another and just knuckled down to get it done. You talk about not wanting to be 20-25% bf; well cut down properly then. Stop eating your McDonald's burgers, drop the calories until the fat falls off and apply the protein and load stimulus to retain as much muscle as possible. It works for everyone, it will work for you. Then, when you want to get bigger, eat in surplus with high protein and lift heavy using clusters and high rep work.
Last edited by a moderator:
Sci
Well-Known Member
I don't think Martin has used androgens, he doesn't look like it to me, and he has always maintained that he hasn't touched them.
I am just saying that "lean gains" is very difficult, as Alex was saying. Martin is a good coach and has a good diet plan, but I don't think it's gonna make a huge difference. You just need to cut, get lean, then bulk. If you like IF, go for it, but don't expect a miracle.
I am just saying that "lean gains" is very difficult, as Alex was saying. Martin is a good coach and has a good diet plan, but I don't think it's gonna make a huge difference. You just need to cut, get lean, then bulk. If you like IF, go for it, but don't expect a miracle.
I don't think he has either. He's not especially big, and his delts-traps-bi's don't appear disproportionately bigger than the triceps, chest etc.
To me it just looks like he has a good diet, is disciplined with it and has found an eating pattern that he can adhere to mentally, pragmatically and physiologically. It seems to work, so he stuck with it.
Having said that, he can't change physics.
To me it just looks like he has a good diet, is disciplined with it and has found an eating pattern that he can adhere to mentally, pragmatically and physiologically. It seems to work, so he stuck with it.
Having said that, he can't change physics.
HST_Rihad
Active Member
I'm not about to use drugs any time soon, if ever. And I'm not expecting a miracle from LeanGains (don't know why some of you are saying IF in a generic sense as if meaning to say "they are all the same") in the sense that it will get me to 5-6% without strict macro partitioning, I just won't be counting calories for now as I'm perpetually bulking anyway. But I do hope that fat will gradually drop to ~15% by eating the same usual stuff (chicken breast, (sometimes meats, fish), 2 eggs, buckwheat, pasta + olive oil, cottage cheese, milk, etc) between 2pm-10pm.
Sci
Well-Known Member
I eat almost 200g protein per day. Its easy: three big chunks of meat, chicken or fish. One at each meal.
To get 200 grams of protein, you'd have to eat at least 6 skinless chicken breasts/ day. I guess three meals isn't that bad, to eat 2 chicken breast at each meal for example. That is still a crapload of meat, not to mention a bunch of fat too.
If you ate lowfat fish like tuna to keep the fat intake down, you'd have to eat 5 big cans of tuna to get 200 grams...I guess I am just a wimp, I have a hard time stomaching that much protein, unless I have AT LEAST 3 meals plus some whey powder.
Sci
Well-Known Member
The average chicken breast without bone or skin has around 32 grams of protein.
Regardless, unless you are single with no children and are either unemployed or work at home, it is exceedingly difficult to eat significantly more than 4000 calories in an eight hour period without making poor food choices. I maintain on roughly 3500-4000 depending on activity level and etc, bulking requires up to 5000 a day. Can't do it during an eight hour window, considering that I work 40-50 hours a week and have to get workouts in there at some point and take care of my army of children. And I can throw down 3000 calories in a single sitting when I am hungry enough, so it's not ability to eat here, it's time. You cannot sufficiently digest enough of those calories in such a short window to fit enough calories in to grow.
HST_Rihad
Active Member
AFAIK digestion takes several hours, absorption happens at several grams of AA per hour. Don't know if AAs from multiple sources are absorbed simultaneously or not, like after eating a mixed meal + yoghurt on top of it.
Last edited:
Sci
Well-Known Member
lol, no big deal, I think we are just counting differently. There are two "legs", two "thighs", and two "wings" and two "breasts" in a chicken. It sounds like you are counting the whole chicken, and I am counting one side of the breast. These are just quotes form the interweb...
Maybe my stomach is just shrunk from cutting, or maybe I am just tired of stuffing lean protein in my face and hardly any carbs or fats...lol. Either way, I am not doing "leangains" or IF when I bulk, simply because it doesn;t fit my lifestyle. Martin even says on his website, that he doesn't recommend his style for everybody. It sounds like it work well for you though.
Last edited:
gbglifter
Member
Theyve maybe just glued two breasts together!
It is working well for me. I get to stuff myself in the evenings, twice, after each session at the gym. I wont be bulking in the classic style any longer tho as Im fed up with not being pleased with what I see in the mirror six months a year. Ill be happy as larry if I can get down under 10% and maintain lean mass.
I understand fully, though, that IF is not for everyone. Theres plenty of ways to reach goals. I just happened to find one that suits me.
It is working well for me. I get to stuff myself in the evenings, twice, after each session at the gym. I wont be bulking in the classic style any longer tho as Im fed up with not being pleased with what I see in the mirror six months a year. Ill be happy as larry if I can get down under 10% and maintain lean mass.
I understand fully, though, that IF is not for everyone. Theres plenty of ways to reach goals. I just happened to find one that suits me.
Sci
Well-Known Member
I agree with this part. The old me would bulk to 20%+, get flabby, then finally do a long miserable cut. Then I quit bodybuilding for a few years, and the new me is going to cut and bulk from 10-15%, and I will try to NEVER again go above 15%. I have a lot more muscle to gain than you though. I have only been back into bodybuilding for less than a year. It sounds like you are already pretty big.