max stim- my thoughts

Discussion in 'Strength-Specific Training (SST)' started by coach hale, Apr 7, 2007.

  1. QuantumPositron

    QuantumPositron New Member

    Dan,

    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">we also should be causing a significant recruitment and therefore training of Type II fibers by always trying to lift the concentric portion as fast as possible.</div>

    I've seen this idea at T-nation a lot. Is it inferred from research?

    Thanks for getting back to me on the sarcoplasmic stuff. I read the study you mentioned on your site. It looks like there is still work to be done. My roomate (getting her masters in counseling) and I had a talk not to long ago about how so many studies are inadequately devised. Perhaps the money or the means are not always available, but there are moments when I really want to sit some of these guys down and give them a good talking to.

    &quot;Look buddy, I need to get huge. And soon. You've got the credentials, you've got the clout. I haul the weight, you haul the line, got it?&quot;

    No more studies on 3 sets vs 1 fellahs. And not another word on creatine. You want tenure? Do something original.

    [​IMG]


    &quot;In other news today, a throng of angry bodybuilders stormed the physiology department of a local university...&quot;
     
  2. QuantumPositron

    QuantumPositron New Member

    Lol,

    On the adding stuff to the workout: there's only so much that can be grown at a time and so much that the body can handle. I am trying to figure just where those limits lie (hey, if I can lose 2 lbs of fat in a week, can I add 2 pounds of muscle?). One thing is for certain, and that is if you are adding to a workout you need to add to your diet. I have read that caloric bulking needs vary per individual and while there is no doubt in my mind that each body is unique, there remains in my mind the observation that workout regimens vary across individual BBs. A less effective protocol requires less calories to grow on and the reverse is true. Just off the top of my head, if you try those ideas for a time and find that your progress haults it could be overtraining (whatever that means) or just insufficient rest and diet. If I added to a workout intelligently and stopped progressing I would review my diet and go through all of the symptoms on the overtraining inventories you can find on the net to see which it is. This procedure still isn't definitive in my mind but at least its methodical. I guess what I'm saying is go for it. Just don't be too quick to write it off if it doesn't pan out. Best of luck.
     
  3. dkm1987

    dkm1987 New Member

    <div>
    (QuantumPositron @ Nov. 17 2007,12:11)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Dan,

        <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">we also should be causing a significant recruitment and therefore training of Type II fibers by always trying to lift the concentric portion as fast as possible.</div>

    Is it inferred from research?</div>
    Of course [​IMG]
     
  4. Krieger

    Krieger New Member

    <div>
    (quadancer @ Nov. 17 2007,03:56)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Using singles at the end of a set, say I did some squats at 2 sets of 8, got close to maxed out and then did some singles at the end of the second set; racking the bar between each rep, but resting for around 15-20 seconds. (I actually did four singles then a double to finish- 305x8, 305x8+1+1+1+1+2)
    What are your thoughts on this? I thought the increased workload would be good and there was no way I was gonna get another full set anyway.
    My feeling is that the motor units were all firing at this point (when the singles started) as opposed to the end of a third set.</div>
    How do you guys perform Squats Max Stim-style? Do you make the effort to rack the weight and unrack it, or do you do like breathing squats and rest in the top position?

    Another question... Can I use slow tempo (eccentric) like lowering the weight on bench-press for 4-6 seconds or that would cause too much fatigue and it would not match with max-stim?

    QP, will you keep a journal? At least a post of your cycle's results as exercises selection (basic isos would be nice to know how max stim would work) will be very fine, I suppose [​IMG]
     
  5. QuantumPositron

    QuantumPositron New Member

    Krieger,

    Journal? How about a novel with excel graphs?

    A limitation of my exercise selection will be in what I choose for legs. I have tendonitis in both ankles, predominantly the left one. I will be excluding calve work entirely because deadlifts and leg press/squats will involve enough ankle stretching to probably agitate it. My right shoulder does not like pressing movements. It got injured in April and now it only acts up with certain pressing vectors. I intend on doing 2 - 3 weeks of light, high rep workouts to get the connective tissue ready. I know it prolongs the cycle and I hate it, but I'd rather finish late than never. This will all be included in my report.

    If you've got good diet links including recipes, please post them. I need to get up to speed on diet ASAP in time for December. I wont get much research time over Thanksgiving.

    As for the squats, the Max-Stim protocol calls for completely getting rid of the weight. For squats that means re racking it. But you know, if you want to try just standing with it I suppose you could. Two other options are the squat racks that power lifters have been using: the bar hangs in the air suspended by two rods that rotate. You lift the the bar off the rods and a spotter pulls a lever to move them out of the way. Another option if you are an at-home trainer is to use chains to suspend the weight. Paul Anderson hung his from a tree. Still another option is to use a Smith machine. And finally you can just perfect a Max-Stim free weight squat: take the bar off the rack and take two, very short, very well practiced steps away - just far enough to clear the pins on the descent - and do a rep.
     
  6. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    Exactly what I'm doing. To clarify, I've done a lot of clusters to get reps in, but they were just little &quot;sets&quot; just short of failure after a pause - or a complete rest. This time I'm doing singles for the first time, henceforth my earlier question.
    I'm neither bulking or cutting @ this time. I'm 'refilling' after a two month layoff, at maint. cals. I won't call anything &quot;growth&quot; right now, as it's all MM.
    Once I get to the end of this cycle (soon) I'll make a decision, probably for a cut. And my Q in another thread never got answered to my satisfaction - short bulk/cuts instead of slow.
    I'm a lot weaker, a bit fatter than I was last turkey day. And the same weight. How disgusting.
     
  7. TunnelRat

    TunnelRat Active Member

    <div>
    (Lol @ Nov. 17 2007,09:30)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">How do you folks feel about trying to get 20 reps with loads around your 5RM for deads? Have any of you done it? I would think that this would be really hard and would require that you drop your frequency to once a week at best...</div>
    I did that a coupla cycles ago. I would do 25 Max-Stim deads every other workout (alternating with squats). Max-Stim allowed me to manage muscle fatigue just fine, but my CNS would take such a hit that I usually had to go home and go to bed afterwards.

    Sci mentioned:
    &quot;Deadlifts are so fatigueing of the muscle tissue as well as aerobic system, cns, etc. That MS is a great tool to get more volume in with deadlifts.&quot;

    I particularly noticed the aerobic effect of high volume deadlifts. After the first eight to ten deads, I had to increase my M-time -- not because I was getting tired, but because I wasn't able to catch my breath! Who'da ever thunk that deadlifts were an aerobic exercise...? [​IMG]
     
  8. Krieger

    Krieger New Member

    <div>
    (Krieger @ Nov. 17 2007,14:32)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Another question... Can I use slow tempo (eccentric) like lowering the weight on bench-press for 4-6 seconds or that would cause too much fatigue and it would not match with max-stim?</div>
    bumping this thread for this question.

    Yesterday I started my max-stim microcycle, cutting with ketogenic diet...

    My performance really went down like 70%. I managed to do only squats, leg curls and bench press and stopped about 15 repetitions on max stim (for my 10 RM), and I was aiming for 20. The lack of carbs seems to take very much from me. I will have to drop the weight now. I'll drop squats also. And keep the very low volume. Max stim seems to help to not be so tired, anyway, but my shoulders hurts on touch.
     
  9. Lol

    Lol Super Moderator Staff Member

    <div>
    (Krieger @ Nov. 20 2007,12:12)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
    (Krieger @ Nov. 17 2007,14:32)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Another question... Can I use slow tempo (eccentric) like lowering the weight on bench-press for 4-6 seconds or that would cause too much fatigue and it would not match with max-stim?</div>
    bumping this thread for this question.

    Yesterday I started my max-stim microcycle, cutting with ketogenic diet...

    My performance really went down like 70%. I managed to do only squats, leg curls and bench press and stopped about 15 repetitions on max stim (for my 10 RM), and I was aiming for 20. The lack of carbs seems to take very much from me. I will have to drop the weight now. I'll drop squats also. And keep the very low volume. Max stim seems to help to not be so tired, anyway, but my shoulders hurts on touch.</div>
    There is no benefit, that I am aware of, in doing slow eccentrics. 1 to 3 seconds for an eccentric should be fine. If I am doing negatives (ie. little or no concentric loading) I still don't do them slowly. I might start out with 2/3 seconds and then hold the stretched position for a further second or so. Even a 1 or 2 second eccentric is far slower than if the weight just dropped, so the muscles involved are still being forced to contract and lengthen under load.

    If your performance has dropped that much (70%?!!  [​IMG] ) I think you are cutting too many calories from your diet. Ketogenic diet or otherwise, if you reduce your calories too much you will increase the likelihood that you lose lean mass as your weight drops. If you reduce the loads in your training as well, that is not a recipe for success.

    With squats you could always do doubles if constant re-racking gets to be a chore. It is possible to make racking and set-up a fairly quick process if you can iron out all the unnecessary feet shuffling, arm wiggling and huffing and puffing. It's like anything else - practice makes perfect.  [​IMG]
     
  10. coach hale

    coach hale New Member

    You should probably be able to reduce your cals and progressively increase strength levels while utilizing Max-Stim (of course there will be an individual variance)

    As LOL mentioned you might be dropping cals to drastically. There is a level at which further reduction in cals do not further enhance fat loss. In other words once cals deficit reaches a certain level further reduction will not enhance the speed of fat loss.

    I have used Max-stim while reducing my weight and bodyfat levels on a few occasions. I have had a couple of my atheltes (MMA athletes) do the same

    thanks
    Coach Hale
    www.maxcondition.com
     
  11. Krieger

    Krieger New Member

    thanks coach hale and lol... I might be reducing too much, I guess I will add some protein and fat to not starve.

    It seems that efedrine that I'm taking is supressing my appetite to really low calouries (as I'm cutting carbs with ketogenic diet too).
     

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