Max Stim vs HST?

D

Diamyo

New Member
Not trying to create any controversy, but I was wondering if people had used both HST and Max-Stim and which they liked better and/or had better results with?

I'm currently using HST and having great results, but the logic behind Max-Stim also is pretty compelling and was thinking about Max-Stim after I complete my first HST cycle.

Anyway, any feedback on results and or ways to determine which might work better for someone appreciated.
 
They are very similar training programs based on the same principles of hypertrophy.
One difference- Max-stim keeps metabolic fatigue down to a minimum and thus allows more reps with heavier loads. The way I see it Max-stim is an improved version of HST, as the basic version of HST is lacking the principle of fatigue management. Theoretically if fatigue is kept to a minimum, more work can be done, with more load, and thus more strain on the muscle-fiber, thus maximum stimulation of hypertrophy. I say theoretically because Daniel Moore, the creator of Max-stim has said he thinks Max-stim is at least as good as traditional HST programs, but he makes no claims it is superior to traditional HST type training, only that it MAY offer some advantage due to the increased strain and lowered metabolic fatigue, which may allow more total work output and increased stimulation.
 
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(scientific muscle @ Oct. 06 2006,23:46)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">They are very similar training programs based on the same principles of hypertrophy.
One difference- Max-stim keeps metabolic fatigue down to a minimum and thus allows more reps with heavier loads.  The way I see it Max-stim is an improved version of HST, as the basic version of HST is lacking the principle of fatigue management.  Theoretically if fatigue is kept to a minimum, more work can be done, with more load, and thus more strain on the muscle-fiber, thus maximum stimulation of hypertrophy.  I say theoretically because Daniel Moore, the creator of Max-stim has said he thinks Max-stim is at least as good as traditional HST programs, but he makes no claims it is superior to traditional HST type training, only that it MAY offer some advantage due to the increased strain and lowered metabolic fatigue, which may allow more total work output and increased stimulation.</div>
Great summary - thanks.  

I think I'll try Max-Stim after I complete this first HST cycle then.
 
Max-stim is great for the post 5's. I use the principal to keep fatigue down and it really helps with strength gains. It works very well with deadlifts and I can still do heavy cleans the next day.
 
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(liegelord @ Oct. 07 2006,06:25)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Max-stim is great for the post 5's.  I use the principal to keep fatigue down and it really helps with strength gains.  It works very well with deadlifts and I can still do heavy cleans the next day.</div>
agree with leige on this its good for 5s if you cant do negs,i would like to give it a full go but the time in the gym taking up equipment is a problem.
as the basic version of HST is lacking the principle of fatigue management.
disagree with this statement scientific muscle as fatigue management is one of the things bryan has taken into consideration.sd,submax-loads etc.
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Actually Faz, strategic deconditioning and submax loads have nothing to do with managing metabolic fatigue the way Max-stim does. The only fatigue management HST has is recommending not to do a set to complete failure, which is right, as this unecessarily burns out the CNS and recovery ability.

Max-stim is unique in that it has strong focus on avoiding metabolic fatigue in order to maximize work output and muscle-fiber strain through increased loading.
 
I have yet to do a Max Stim routine, but I have been incorporating the technique into my training, specifically with regards to chins, deads, rows and dips. I have found my strength gains are quite good. The increase in strength was most dramatic with chins, the increasing being much larger than I had ever experienced before in chins.
So far, Max Stim seems to be another, very useful addition to the arsenal.
 
I also noticed it Totentanz, that Max-stim seems to work really well in pulling movements. I am not sure why this is, but pulling movements really fatigue me more than other exercises. I always poop out doing chins, but with Max-stim I can do alot more reps. I am glad you had the same experience. It also works well for rows, deadlifts and other such pulls.
 
Yeah. The first time I did it with chins, I was using something close to my 3 RM and I managed to get 20 reps, which blew me away. It wasn't even that hard, which was amazing to me.
I was thinking of using it with my next 5x5 routine, using the advanced template but instead of doing 5 sets of 5, doing 25 reps max stim. I think it would be a great way to push up the PRs on squats, deads and rows. I think I'll replace bench with dips though. I hate benching... so we'll see how dips goes.

Edit: I seem to be having problems tonight. Typing problems.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Edit:  I seem to be having problems tonight.  Typing problems. </div>That's because you upset the god of benching.
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Tot &amp; Sci: I'm not sure if either of you guys have tried doing arm curls max-stim style? I have avoided isos most of this year but recently i have been including max-stim curls on Saturdays during 5s. My arms seemed to blow up doing them. So not sure if it's just because I've decided to add in isos or if it's max-stim. I've never felt such a deep muscle ache before, so I think the extra strain and TUT is definitely hitting the right spot.
 
LOl, I agree, I have done them...amazingly effective.

I will add arm iso's after I have reached certain strength and size goals, but for now I am aiming to add mass to my core, and adding weigh to the bar!
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(scientific muscle @ Oct. 08 2006,01:26)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Actually Faz, strategic deconditioning and submax loads have nothing to do with managing metabolic fatigue the way Max-stim does.  The only fatigue management HST has is recommending not to do a set to complete failure, which is right, as this unecessarily burns out the CNS and recovery ability.

Max-stim is unique in that it has strong focus on avoiding metabolic fatigue in order to maximize work output and muscle-fiber strain through increased loading.</div>
i was answering in reference to this statement
&quot;as the basic version of HST is lacking the principle of fatigue management.&quot;
you didnt say metabolic in that sentence so i dont want people thinking HST hasnt taken fatigue into account.
i do think max-stim is a good workout its just a little impractical for me at the moment ,i might try some arm isos with it somewhere down the road
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It isn't for experienced trainers only but I would suggest that some experience would be beneficial so doing at least one vanilla HST cycle first would be wise. If you are new to lifting get familiar with the exercises first and then do a few HST cycles. Once you have doen that, experimenting with max-stim will make a lot more sense.
 
Max-stim seems to be an exellent way to get around metabolic fatigue and to get a higher total load, Im gonna try it after my first &quot;vanilla style&quot; HST cycle, In fact doing a regular set of f.eks five reps, has completely lost its point when you can split it up and get a much heavier total load due to less fatigue, and since I now know that it is micro-trauma that counts, not failure..

The only problem that I can see with using Max-stim is that it may look kinda weird to other people at the gym doing 1 set then put the weight back to starting position, then repeat..  
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(Owndawg @ Oct. 14 2006,22:57)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">The only problem that I can see with using Max-stim is that it may look kinda weird to other people at the gym doing 1 set then put the weight back to starting position, then repeat..  
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Personally I love the fact that people are looking at me wondering what I'm doing!

But then again I am a born attention seeker!
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Long time no see, Rob, miss you over at the Max-stim forum. Glad to see you posting here again. I am up to 196 lb.s...total net gain of 17 lb.s since starting max-stim in May. I am a little fat though, waist has gone up an inch since May, but chest has gone up 3&quot;!!!
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Damn, Max-stim is a good idea!
never thought of how simple and logic it is!!, but then again I thoght failure and fatigue was an indicator of a good workout..
Found out that it was absolutely NOT the case, and I got poor results when trying to reach failure for each set, and working same musclegroups once pr week..

So Max-stim would be the complete opposite of what I have done before, interesting..

think Ill try it for my tens maybe, almost cant wait..
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That s great results scientific!

may I see your routine?, Im a bit curious as Im trying to find out more about max-stim..
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