Missed my lift

Discussion in 'Strength-Specific Training (SST)' started by TunnelRat, Feb 8, 2008.

  1. BAX67

    BAX67 New Member

    I put a sticker on the wall about eye level when in squat position and keep my eyes on that spot throughout the lift. It helps me keep my head in the proper position. Before I did that, I had the same problem with going forward out of the hole. Not so anymore. I don't know why, but my dead is much higher than my squat also. Must be in the mind, all that weight on your back or that I love deads and dread squats [​IMG] .
     
  2. colby2152

    colby2152 New Member

    <div>
    (TunnelRat @ Mar. 04 2008,11:35)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
    (colby2152 @ Mar. 04 2008,09:26)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">TR, I am not sure if I asked this before, but did you happen to serve in Vietnam?</div>
    Southeast Asia War Games, March 1961 -- March 1973, Second Place

    1st Lieutenant, Rifle Platoon leader, First Cavalry Division (Airmobile) -- 23 August 1967 to 22 August 1968.

    Republic of Vietnam Campaign Medal
    Vietnam Service Medal
    Combat Infantry Badge
    Bronze Star
    Purple Heart (Feb 26, 1968 -- seems like yesterday...)


    [​IMG]</div>
    As I thought - what a record man... thank you for serving our country. Should I assume you were one of the tunnel rats? I could not imagine doing such a thing!
     
  3. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    If I look down I see this:
    [​IMG]
     
  4. TunnelRat

    TunnelRat Active Member

    <div>
    (quadancer @ Mar. 07 2008,09:50)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">If I look down I see this:
    [​IMG]</div>
    That's what I see when I look straight ahead (there's a big ol' mirror behind the squat rack at my gym). [​IMG]
     
  5. Lol

    Lol Super Moderator Staff Member

    <div>
    (TunnelRat @ Mar. 05 2008,23:22)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I find that I have far less confidence with my squats than I do with my deads. When I add weight to the bar, I am never sure that I am going to be able to lift it – even though it seems to come right up when I put my back into it. I suppose it is something mental, since both squats and deads use much the same musculature.

    I’ve never really had a coach so I am not quite sure I am using proper form. When the weight starts to get heavy, I find myself tipping forward as I come up out of the hole -- sort of doing a really heavy Good Morning. I’ve read Rippetoe, but I am not able to get the bar into the low position on my back due to my tight shoulders. As a result, my squat numbers are way below what I can deadlift.</div>
    TR, I think all of this is inevitable (Mr. Anderson!). If the load is too heavy to deadlift it won't come up or if you lift it but can't stand up you just have to let go or put it back down to get out of trouble. Not so with the bar on your back. If you can't get up you are stuffed. Somehow or other you have to get the darn weight off you before you die! I get nervous before either lift but I think squats have the edge even though the loads are lighter.

    Don't forget that when squatting you are hitting your quads and hams harder as they get worked through a greater range of motion. We are not doing powerlifting style squats (wide stance, to parallel, very low bar) so we shouldn't expect our squat RMs to be really close to our deadlift RMs.

    Once you are pushing the loads up you will get to a point where your lower back struggles to stay tight coming out of the hole which will result in some forward lean. That in turn puts more stress on your lower back and means that you are less likely to remedy the situation on any subsequent reps. One solution is to be able to lower the bar on your back as you mentioned but, as you can't do that, you can just try to really concentrate on keeping your lower back tight as you drop into the hole and then drive your hips up keeping the weight on your heels more. It should be on your mid-foot but by thinking about driving with your heels it can help prevent the load shifting forward towards your toes.

    Having said all that, I still find it hard not to tip forward a bit once I am tired; my last couple of reps are usually a far cry from perfect form once I am lifting near to a RM load.
     
  6. TunnelRat

    TunnelRat Active Member

    Wow, all that you say matches my condition perfectly! There's something about being squished under that load that sends a chill into my heart. Okay, now that I know I'm not the only one, I can begin to deal with it. Thanks.
     
  7. TunnelRat

    TunnelRat Active Member

    Friday, March 07, 2008

    Deadlift 5x135, 5x185, 3x205, 3x215, 9x260 ms
    Deadlift Speed Set 9x215 ms

    Shrugs 3x5x185
    Romanian Deadlift 3x5x155
    Dumbbell prone Row 3x5x60
    Good Mornings 3x5x130
    Lat Pulldown 3x5x120

    Ab machine 2x10x120
    Pec Dec 2x10x70

    Wow, what a terrific workout ! I feel as though I’ve done a man’s work today. I did my deads while standing on a low (2 1/2&quot;) platform. It made the lifts much harder. I feel as though I am well on track to reach my goal of 315 lbs by April 1st.

    One of the guys at the gym (one who seems to know a bit about what he’s doing…) stopped by today while I was preparing my 260 lb bar. He asked if I were in a powerlifting competition. I told him that I only compete with myself.
     
  8. TunnelRat

    TunnelRat Active Member

    Monday, March 10, 2008

    Deadlift 5x45, 5x95, 3x135, 3x185, 3x225, 1x275, 1x285
    Deadlift Speed Set 230x3x3 (10 sec m-time between reps, 1 min between sets)

    Shrugs 3x5x200
    Romanian Deadlift 3x5x175
    Dumbbell prone Row 3x5x65
    Good Mornings 3x5x140
    Lat Pulldown 3x5x130

    Ab machine 2x10x130
    Pec Dec 2x10x80

    My lower back was tight and stiff all weekend. I tried both static and dynamic stretching to loosen it up. Nothing seemed to help much until I started warming up for my deads. Then I was okay.

    I was able to add a bit of weight to every lift. I’m up to bodyweight or more on everything except the Pec Dec (which I am taking very slowly). My workout was running close to an hour, so I had to super set the Abs, Pec Dec, and Lat Pulldown. Next week the deadlifts go up over 300 lbs again.
     
  9. BAX67

    BAX67 New Member

    Deads, Romanian Deads, and good mornings all in one workout,wow I see why your back was a little stiff. Your lower back must be like stone. Your lifts are looking great, nice good morns.
     
  10. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    <div>
    (BAX67 @ Mar. 11 2008,10:07)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Deads, Romanian Deads, and good mornings all in one workout,wow I see why your back was a little stiff. Your lower back must be like stone. Your lifts are looking great, nice good morns.</div>
    That is rather hard core.
     
  11. TunnelRat

    TunnelRat Active Member

    <div>
    (Totentanz @ Mar. 11 2008,16:28)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
    (BAX67 @ Mar. 11 2008,10:07)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Deads, Romanian Deads, and good mornings all in one workout,wow I see why your back was a little stiff. Your lower back must be like stone. Your lifts are looking great, nice good morns.</div>
    That is rather hard core.</div>
    Ed Coan is a hard taskmaster... [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  12. TunnelRat

    TunnelRat Active Member

    Wednesday, March 12, 2008

    Back Squats 45x10x2, 95x5, 135x3, 185x1, 205x1, 225x1, 155x3x3

    Triceps Pushdowns 2 sets of 10
    Dumbbell Skulls 2 sets of 10
    Biceps Curls 2 sets of 10
    Brachialis Curl 2 sets of 10
    Seated Single Calf Raise 3x10x70
    Standing Calf Raise 3x10x150
    Shrugs 3x5x200
    Ab machine 2x10x130
    Pec Dec 2x10x80
    Chins (neutral grip) 3x5xbw

    The 225 lb squat is not a PR, but it’s within 5 lbs of my best ever, and surely the most weight I’ve had on my back since November. Otherwise I took it pretty easy on squats as my deadlift program is going into its final few weeks.

    I did a slew of isos, supersetting them with my squats and with each other. As a result I got everything done in one hour exactly. All the bi and tri isos were done with light weights so I don't hurt my shoulder.

    I exchanged bodyweight chinups for lat pulldowns now that I've reached my bodyweight on that exercise. What’s the point of doing lat pulldowns equal to my bodyweight when I could be doing chins instead?
     
  13. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    Why not just do pullups, since you've hit your bw? Use the chins on bi day.
     
  14. TunnelRat

    TunnelRat Active Member

    <div>
    (quadancer @ Mar. 12 2008,20:16)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Why not just do pullups, since you've hit your bw? Use the chins on bi day.</div>
    Pullups, chinups, they're both about the same, since my rehab therapist insists I use a neutral grip.
     
  15. TunnelRat

    TunnelRat Active Member

    Friday, March 14, 2008

    Deadlift 10x45, 2x5x95, 3x135, 3x185, 3x225, 2x285
    Deadlift Speed Set 230x3x3 (10 sec m-time between reps, 1 min between sets)

    Power Shrugs 3x5x200
    Romanian Deadlift 3x5x185
    Dumbbell prone Row 3x5x65
    Arched Back Good Mornings 5x135, 3x5x185
    Neutral Grip Chins bodyweight

    Ab machine 2x10x130
    Pec Dec 2x10x80

    My rehab therapist was appalled to find out that I’ve been doing 90 degree bends with more than my body weight on my shoulders (Good Mornings). So I’ve changed regular GMs to Arched Back Good Mornings, which is what Ed Coan calls for, anyhow. I set the power rack crosspins at chest height instead of waist height, and all I have to do is to get under the bar and straighten up. I find that I can move a whole lot of weight that way. Next week I’ll probably go to 200 lbs or more for that lift.

    I also began to do genuine power shrugs today rather than clunky old regular shrugs. I wasn’t really able to get my shoulders up as high as I wanted with the 200 lb bar, using regular shrugs. Besides, Coan’s program calls for power shrugs, anyhow. So I started with the bar set on low crosspins, in about the hang clean starting position, and powered the bar up with legs, hips, and traps. The 200 lb bar went up easily. Next week I’ll go to 230 lbs.

    I increased my Romanian Deadlifts to 185 lbs. I find that it begins to be difficult to hold onto the bar for a slow set of five. I’m using a pronated grip on the bar rather than a mixed grip, and that sucker wants to start to roll out of my hands on about the 4th repetition.
     
  16. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    Yeah, I'd recommend trying some straps for RDLs. I've been using straps lately for lifts where I have to hold a real heavy bar for a long time, reserving my unassisted grip solely for low reps on deads.

    Those arched back good mornings look interesting.

    So do you like power shrugs? I think they are kind of fun, especially since you can move massive amounts of weight with them.
     
  17. Lol

    Lol Super Moderator Staff Member

    TR: try a hook grip for RDLs. I find it works brilliantly. Takes a little getting used to though. First time I tried it I thought I would never be able to stick with it. Now I almost can't grab the bar without hooking! I still use straps for power shrugs though.
     
  18. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Pullups, chinups, they're both about the same, since my rehab therapist insists I use a neutral grip. </div> Chullups? [​IMG]
    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">So I’ve changed regular GMs to Arched Back Good Mornings</div> Seems to me to be more for working a top ROM sticking point. For me, I stick about 1/4-1/3 of the way up, so box squats would be my mentor. Is your therapist aware of the new wave of back repair, popularized by Dr. John Sarno, now picked up by hundreds of doctors everywhere? I'd be Sarno would actually recommend the GM's.
    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">So I started with the bar set on low crosspins, in about the hang clean starting position, and powered the bar up with legs, hips, and traps.</div>
    Actually, I learned the P-shrugz with no leg, hip or glute involvement whatsoever, and I see no point in using muscles that aren't the target to do the major part of the lift, unless you absolutely need them to. I'd suspect that once trained that way, it would be very hard to break the habit. My power in the P-shrug comes from the entire spinal chain and traps, then finished and held by the traps alone. My legs just stand there, out of the way. I go totally shitheavy this way; it even amazes me. When I start losing height (usually at rep 5 or so using 450 or more) I deem it my present ceiling and stop adding weight. I find that I can pull regular singles with my 5-6 rm of P-shrugs, if that gives you an idea of the power increases. The same rule applies there: if the height isn't there, it doesn't qualify...in other words, the bar has to clear the attachment point of my pointer by a couple inches.
    Unless you have a mirror, the &quot;feeling&quot; of the traps will be deceptive, and you'll think you have the height when you don't. But if the bar slams into your pecker, you know you didn't make the dang lift! Ow.
     
  19. TunnelRat

    TunnelRat Active Member

    <div>
    (quadancer @ Mar. 15 2008,09:59)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Actually, I learned the P-shrugz with no leg, hip or glute involvement whatsoever, and I see no point in using muscles that aren't the target to do the major part of the lift, unless you absolutely need them to.


    Unless you have a mirror, the &quot;feeling&quot; of the traps will be deceptive, and you'll think you have the height when you don't. But if the bar slams into your pecker, you know you didn't make the dang lift! Ow.</div>
    I kinda figured the P-shrugs were to help overcome the sticking point at the top lockout. Much like the Arched Back GMs. It sort of calls for the hard pelvic &quot;bump&quot; there at the very last in order to get straightened out.

    I'm not sure how I would engage the entire spinal chain without some movement of of the hips, since the starting point is the same position as the hang clean (unless you are proposing a higher starting point).

    I do have a mirror behind the power rack that I use (St. Rippetoe have mercy on my soul...). My usual goal with shrugs is to bring my shoulders up to parallel and perhaps a bit higher. Though using that form I find that indeed the bar tends to bang into my crotch.
     
  20. TunnelRat

    TunnelRat Active Member

    Okay, as I am moving into the final weeks of my deadlift program, Ed Coan calls for cutting back the assistance exercises.

    Weeks 1 -- 4 I was doing 3 cycles of sets of 8. Then, in Weeks 5 and 6, he added in shrugs and had me doing 3x5 of each exercise. Now in Weeks 7 and 8, the assistance exercises (RDLs, GMs, P-shrugs, and &quot;chullups&quot;) go to 2x5. In Week 9 I'll drop the GMs and &quot;chullups&quot; completely -- only doing RDLs and P-shrugs. Then in Week 10 there are no assistance exercises at all!

    It is apparent that the program is set up to reduce the amount of total work done in the later weeks. I suppose this will have some effect on rest and increased strength for the final goal.

    My question: Since my workouts will be significantly shorter, due to the decrease in assistance exercises, do you suppose it would be okay to add in some non-essential work on my bis and tris to make up the lack of work on my arms? Or would this likely be counter-productive?
     

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