I just realized that everybody may have missed the point. My original contention is that a carbohydrate metabolism is abnormal and as a result, the conclusions we draw from it are incorrect. Quad, you ask that I show you some evidence that we can bulk without the carbs. All this time I've been showing you evidence that a carbohydrate metabolism is abnormal. I've been showing you the wrong evidence. Well maybe not all of it; Jeff Volek is a good example of what low carb can do for strength at least. Even if I don't have more than those few studies on low carb and training as evidence that we can bulk without carbs, I see no problem with that anyway. It's not like we're going to feel good about all the problems that come with eating carbs once we realize how bad carbs are. Then it's only a matter of time before somebody thinks up some low carb bulking diet and shows us his results.