New training program I might try....

Lest I offend any other HST Experts out there...Dan Moore, Mikeynov, Aaron F, ummm......oops forgot Bryan Haycock, I hear he knows alot about HST training.

Any input would be appreciated.
 
I noticed that you are doing deads and rows on different days...is this because of the lower back issues?

I'm setting up my next cycle and I was going to do Pull-ups and rows in my A routine and Chin-ups and rows in my B routine.

Is that too much?
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">How long have you been doing it and any feedback would be cool. </div>

Been dragging my ass on this one since February just after SDying from a 30's routine like you are suggesting! Agh,don't worry about missing me, I was actually just &quot;pulling your leg&quot;.
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NT- for the above reason I did not update it but soon, very soon indeed I'll have pictures and all.
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I personally cannot do a barbell row workout and deadlift workout on top of eachother....now if you are the man of steel and your lower back can handle it...
I have tried it in the past...barbell rows ONLY on days that I am not doing deadlifts.
 
I can do rows and deads on the same day, but it sucks very hard and I definitely know I did that the next day when I'm acting like an old man with bad back. Better to keep them seperate, especially when you are lifting more than your bodyweight in deads.
 
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(scientific muscle @ Apr. 02 2007,13:12)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Lest I offend any other HST Experts out there...Dan Moore, Mikeynov, Aaron F, ummm......oops forgot Bryan Haycock, I hear he knows alot about HST training.

Any input would be appreciated.</div>
You forgot,

Biz, Blade and Jules; how dare you
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They haven't been around enough lately!
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Dan, what do you think of my ideas.  Do you think it wise to stay at 30 reps (conservative for me on only 4 exercise/workout) or one idea I had is to do something dual-factorish and do 40 reps for weeks 1-5 and drop to 20 reps for weeks 6-10 once the loads get heavy.

Your opinion is esteemed by me above all.  (incidently I guess you noticed this HSt routine is markedly similar to some of my past max-stim style routines)

Since I will be clustering/m-timing reps to manage fatigue I will be posting my log at the max-stim forum also.
 
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(scientific muscle @ Apr. 01 2007,08:49)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">After looking it over, I modified a few things.

Alternating exercises will be a must, to avoid overtraining.  This will cut the workout down to 3-4 exercises/session.  To counteract this low number of exercises, I will keep the total volume at 50 reps/exercise.  Sounds extreme, but it isn't really.  Many guys do 20 total reps/exercise and do 8 different exercises, that is 160 total reps for the body each workout.  50 reps for three exercises is 150 reps for the whole body.

Another thing I modified was the progression. 50-95% is too wide, I was thinking 60-90% of 1rm would be much more appropiate for a hypertrophy routine.  this would mean starting at 60% of 1rm and progressing 1% each workout (rounding) for 30 workouts to end at 90% of 1rm.

Exercises
Workout A
Squat
Bench
Row

Workout B
Deadlift
Dip
Chinup

I was going to add overhead presses, but it seems to be too much pressing.  And the deltoids get hammered hard doing benching/rows/etc.  I might add a bit of overhead pressing at the end of the workout, but only a set or two.</div>
I like the way this looks.

50 reps will be doable...I have done it and the only thing is you may feel it in your tendons over time.

Most likely it will not be a problem until the Heavy weight sinks in.

IMO...there is what I would do.

I would start with 50 reps and stay there as long as possible.

When things get really heavy reduce reps as little as possible and manage fatigue ( which you are good at).

I too think Higher volume is a must for pur-hypertrophy!

Please let us know how this goes...and of course EAT....BABY....EAT!
 
Sci...I say 50 reps over the other suggestion only b/c I remember a REAL old thread by one of the EXPERTS...I can't remember who and 50 reps was used with great results...the thing was it was limited to about 3 exercises...which is what your routine is looking like.

You could always start there....and as it says in PIMP MY HST....cut heavy loads to 1/3 or 1/2 of your HIGHER volume lighter loads.

So that would mean a cycle of 10 for 50 reps and then when it gets heavy....25 reps?

Just my 2 cents!
 
Sci, I just did a little experiment this evening. I did 50 squats with 100kgs (around 61% of my 1RM) as 10 x 5. I did them with only a little rest between sets as they felt pretty light. Even the final set felt OK (harder, yes, but still OK). Taking it up to 64% as Korte's routine suggests would mean adding just 10lbs to that. I will try it on Wednesday.

My initial feeling is that 10 x 5 with around 60% of my 1RM is a doddle compared to 3 x 5 with 90% of my 1RM (or about 146kgs). Work done on the other hand is very different: 5,000 : 2,190(assuming my form stays pretty consistent). In order to keep my work level about the same I'd have to add another 28 reps with 100kgs.

What I am still unsure about is how the amount of work links to hypertrophy? Strain is obviously a lot lower when using only 60% of 1RM load and therefore it felt much more like I was training for endurance than power. However, there is definitely a link between work and hypertrophy because we are all aware that performing under a certain threshold of work and our progress stagnates (because the signalling trigger doesn't get pulled hard enough for the present level of conditioning).

However, I still think that 50 reps is too high a figure to begin with. I can see you working up to it over the next few years. I'm not sure how long Joe has been training but I think it is a fair bit longer than you or me? Maybe at his level of conditioning and experience 50 reps are necessary but I still doubt it. One thing I am sure of, for me at least, is that most of my gains come during the end of 10s and during the 5s. If I can't manage 50 reps with those loads then what was the point in doing 50 reps with lighter loads before unless I want to improve my endurance? Still, I am not speaking from experience here so really i should just shut up and lift!
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Better get some sleep so I can get those 50 reps with 65% of 1RM on Wednesday.
 
There is something to be said for WORK...Im not saying its supior to load...b/c I know its not...but more work does seem to work?
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(Lol @ Apr. 02 2007,09:30)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I'm not sure how long Joe has been training but I think it is a fair bit longer than you or me? Maybe at his level of conditioning and experience 50 reps are necessary but I still doubt it.</div>
Great Point.

I have been training 12 plus years.

I was used to very...and I mean very very high volume before HST.

I was training each muscle group with 20 to 30 sets a week...or around 360 total reps a week.

So dropping down to HST...was a shock!

But back to the thread at hand...I think 50 reps is high however it very doable unless the loads are high...IMO.

I just finished my 20 rep HST program that everyone suggested...and Its the strongest I have been in a while...however I personally feel I respond better to 30 reps or so.

I don't train 50 reps a week neither at 3 times a week....but I think worst case for Sci....and I mean worse case is if he eats enough...50 reps will not be any better than 40 or 30.

So what I am saying is I think with his knowledge of fatigue...it will not hurt him to go for 50 reps...verses a noob doing it...and burning out.

Sci will know when to cut back...so long story short...will it produce better gains than 30 reps???

Im not sure...but I don't think it will hurt anything.

I hope this helps...and I could of swore up and down MIKEYNOV...is one of the guys who was familiar with 50 rep hst cycles...or maybe it was Vicious???

I think the thread is lost in the change over from servers.
 
Good input, Lol. I would normally agree with you 100%, but Korte's volume phase blew me away.

I did the more conservative version than stevejones, 5x5 for bench/squat/deadlift. The bench was ridiculously easy doing 25 reps, the squat and deads were harder, since that is 50 reps total for the legs and back.
I did 25 reps for squats/deads BOTH three times/week, which is 150 reps/week for legs. My thighs grew one whole inch while losing bodyweight!!! I can't help but think that if I alternated them, I could easily do 50 reps each session until the loads got heavier. Of course the downside is once the loads get over 75%, I will have to drop volume, because the workout will become physically impossible.

I'm just not sure if it is better to start with high volume and only cut it down as needed, or as Dan Moore proposes, to keep the volume steady throughout the cycle. I am not sure if Dan still has this viewpoint or not in light of new research about high-volume...
One more idea...if high-volume truly is important to hypertrophy, and it is better to keep the volume constant, why not do a lighter cycle, like 60% to 75% of 1 rm?

Sorry if I am playing labcoat too much, but one week off from lifting has me trying to concoct a really great cycle for hypertrophy.
 
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(scientific muscle @ Apr. 03 2007,02:57)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Its 4 am in most of Europe.  Do you ever sleep, Lol?</div>
Yeah, only occasionally though. If you'd stop asking such blasted interesting questions I might be able to get some!
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Quote from Max-stim thread in November 2006
Dan Moore
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Also understand my intent was to make sure we are increasing the work over the duration. When using a very high rep number or when working to near failure with Max-Stim it can be deceiving. What I mean is, let's say you are working to near failure and adjusting the M-Time, theorhetically you could get 50 or more reps in the lighter&quot;ish&quot; weights but as time goes on and the loads get heavier the number of reps diminishes. This to me seems counterproductive. So it's not so much a matter of do whatever you can but more of a matter of making sure you do more than the last (or last couple/several) workouts. So I would rather someone do only 15 reps throughout than to start at 40 reps and have to reduce the number of reps.
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Dan Moore </div>

If that is still the case, then 30 reps seems plenty challenging to keep it up a whole cycle.
Incidently I am already 90% certain what program I will be using and have already created a spreadsheet based on linear progression for 10 weeks and clustering to 30 reps for each exercise. Most of my ramblings here are simply curiosity and mental masturbation...
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(Totentanz @ Apr. 01 2007,22:08)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Routine looks solid. That's almost identical to mine, except I'm doing clean and press instead of bench because bench hates me, and I do high pulls on Weds in addition to deads, chins and dips.</div>
Not to highjack the thread, but I backed off the bench also and I'm focusing on the push-press instead. Let us know how the switch works out for you. Are you using bumper plates?
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">But back to the thread at hand...I think 50 reps is high however it very doable unless the loads are high...IMO.</div>

Exactly why I say it may be a bit much once the loads get heavy, 30 felt too much for me on 5's and beyond and I am no pussy!
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