Pictures everyone?

[wobbles]

It'll more then likely take a full year (maybe more given your current knowledge) of bulking before you can think about cutting. Aim for around 1lb a week increase in body weight while training. If you decide to have a break or whatever, then eat at maintenance for that period. If you dont understand nutrition and calories and all that. I'd suggest you start googling it until you can successfully count calories. It'll make life alot easier for you in the long run if you do.

 

[seancasey23]

thanks guys, i really appreciate your replies.

@tunnelrat, @tontentanz, @grunt11

i've been thinking that exact same thing. i've been tinkering with the idea of going with a hypertrophy cycle (hence my stumbling onto this great site) because my weight was just so low. to be honest, in reference to grunt11's post i haven't really "just started" i started about a year ago and i've been slowly getting to wear i am now from my previous state. (see attached image) i started working out on p90x (chuckle) but it got me into fitness so it was worth it.

so i've been cutting for a while, utilizing a lot of the material i've read from Rusty Moore, Tom Venuto, Clay Rogers, and Craig Ballantyne. From all these authors i've come to the understanding that all those Hollywood actors who get ready for a big role (Taylor Lautner) first get to a low enough body fat level and then builk up using hypertrophy principles (Shring Wrapping). So i've been cutting to a point where i can start to build muscle and look "hollywood" for lack of a better term.

also in response to grunt11's post. My plan was to incorporate HST principles into select few exercises targeting those exact areas. Clay Rogers really goes in depth on how the "Hollywood Physique" is engineered in the movie industry. I was going to use:

Dips (outer pectorals)
Curls (biceps)
DB Lateral Raises (lateral delts)
Hanging Leg Raises (abs)
1 Arm DB Tricep Extensions (triceps)
Pull Ups (Lats)

i threw in the triceps and lats because triceps make up 2/3's of your arm and the lats give you the V-shape. My plan was to perform these exercises in HST fashion while eating "TKD" style (eat carbs only pre and post workout - protein, fats, veggies all other meals) while eating below maintenance. Now, thanks to wobbles, tunnelrat, and totentanz i think i'm going to just bulk up and eat the way bryan outlines in his "eating for size" article.

again, any feedback will be appreciated. none of my friends are into this as much as i am. i've been reading this forum religiously for the past couple of days and i'm actually impressed that you guys replied (wobbles, tunnelrat, totentanz, and grunt11) because i've read posts by you guys and have learned a lot. anyway i'll shut up now. thanks and have a successful day!

 

[seancasey23]

thanks guys, i really appreciate your replies.

@tunnelrat, @tontentanz, @grunt11

i've been thinking that exact same thing. i've been tinkering with the idea of going with a hypertrophy cycle (hence my stumbling onto this great site) because my weight was just so low. to be honest, in reference to grunt11's post and wobbles' post, i haven't really "just started" i started about a year ago and i've been slowly getting to wear i am now from my previous state. (see attached image) i started working out on p90x (chuckle) but it got me into fitness so it was worth it.

so i've been cutting for a while, utilizing a lot of the material i've read from Rusty Moore, Tom Venuto, Clay Rogers, and Craig Ballantyne. From all these authors i've come to the understanding that all those Hollywood actors who get ready for a big role (Taylor Lautner) first get to a low enough body fat level and then builk up using hypertrophy principles (Shring Wrapping). So i've been cutting to a point where i can start to build muscle and look "hollywood" for lack of a better term.

also in response to grunt11's post. My plan was to incorporate HST principles into select few exercises targeting those exact areas. Clay Rogers really goes in depth on how the "Hollywood Physique" is engineered in the movie industry. I was going to use:

Dips (outer pectorals)
Curls (biceps)
DB Lateral Raises (lateral delts)
Hanging Leg Raises (abs)
1 Arm DB Tricep Extensions (triceps)
Pull Ups (Lats)

i threw in the triceps and lats because triceps make up 2/3's of your arm and the lats give you the V-shape. My plan was to perform these exercises in HST fashion while eating "TKD" style (eat carbs only pre and post workout - protein, fats, veggies all other meals) while eating below maintenance. Now, thanks to wobbles, tunnelrat, and totentanz i think i'm going to just bulk up and eat the way bryan outlines in his "eating for size" article.

i also attached pictures of taylor lautner, ryan reynolds, and the carlson twins to give you guys a better understanding of what i'm going for. i know it's not the ideal BB body but it's what motivates me. in the end i do all of this for the chicks LOL. don't we all?

again, any feedback will be appreciated. none of my friends are into this as much as i am. i've been reading this forum religiously for the past couple of days and i'm actually impressed that you guys replied (wobbles, tunnelrat, totentanz, and grunt11) because i've read posts by you guys and have learned a lot. anyway i'll shut up now. thanks and have a successful day!

 

[seancasey23]

where is my post? moderator??

 

[seancasey23]

i think my post yesterday never made it... c'est la vie.

i will have to rewrite from memory so please bear with me.

i did thank all of you guys for replying. wobbles, totentanz, tunnelrat, and grunt11, thank you i really appreciate you guys helping me out. my friends aren't as into this as i am so it helps to get a response from you guys. i've been reading this forum a lot for the past couple of days and i have seen your names a lot and have gotten a lot of insight from reading your posts. Thank you for that as well.

I've been tinkering with the idea of bulking and given the response i will go ahead and move into a bulk cycle.

@wobbles and @tunnel rat,

i haven't just started. i actually started out a year ago with p90x (LOL) but it got me into fitness so it was worth it. you can see my progress pics below.


After p90x my training was heavily influenced on Rusty Moore, then Clay Rogers, and Craig Ballantyne. My whole goal was to drop BF to around 8% - 10% so that i could bulk properly. These guys' whole niche is the "HOLLYWOOD BODY" which is my end goal. You can see pictures of what i am ultimately shooting for below in the form of taylor lautner, ryan reynolds, and the carlson twins (the Abercrombie Model look is my immediate goal).

Rusty Moore, Brad Pilon (Eat Stop Eat), Clay Rogers, Craig Ballantyne... from the articles i read from these guys i eventually got to a point where i was eating CKD style (veggies and meats every day except Sunday for the carb refeed) and training mainly:

Abs
Chest
Biceps
Shoulders

and supplemental work for triceps and back.

I got great cutting results once i went keto (did this about 3 months ago and i got great definition in my abs) but as you can see my muscles did get flatter.

I stumbled upon HST. And i'm looking to incorporate HST principles into the exercises that will get me to my goals. I wanted to eat TKD style (carbs pre-workout, LOTS and LOTS of carbs post-workout, meat and veggies all other meals). Workout out 3x a week. So i'd be refeeding 3x a week and my intention is to eat 7 days worth of maintenance carbs in 3 days.

Workout:

Dips
Hammer Curls
DB Lateral Raises
1 Arm Tricep Extension
Chin-Ups
Lying Leg Raises

Sets:

1 x 15s
2 x 10s
3 x 5s

Or clustering to 20 total reps (which i did a bunch of research on today and seems to be my best bet).

The diet is where i am really confused. I don't know if keto is the right way to go. Lyle Mcdonald says keto will be hard to gain muscle. Should i just eat food like a mofo and disregard keto principles? I CAN EAT A LOT but ever since cutting (keto diet + IF experience) i've learned to curb my appetite. I enjoy recreational marijuana use so BULKING will be FUN. I'm just worried I will wind up gaining WAY TOO MUCH fat after a year such great results in my cutting efforts. I NEED HELP guys!

P.S. I've been sick the past week so i have great SD time already in. I'm just itching to start HST. Hopefully you guys can point me in the right direction.

P.P.S. My girlfriend says my legs are skinny right now (i guess a lot of the weight i dropped was in my legs. i weigh 156-160lbs now and i used to be 185lbs). Should i train my legs?

thanks and have a successful day!

 

[TunnelRat]

1) I tend to rely on Lyle when it comes to dieting.

2) P90x is a good program. If you've been able to follow it even halfway, that indicates you have plenty of motivation.

3) 8% is a nice figure; I've been there a time or two. However, that 8% looks a lot (a LOT!) better when there's some muscle to display.

4) I tend to advocate both squats and deadlifts for body building. They form the foundation of all of my workouts. If you've got a problem with skinny legs, try squats and deads.

5) You're not likely to gain weight on a keto diet; that's for extreme cutting. To add muscle, throw in some carbs and keep your protein up. Later, when you want to cut, just eliminate the carbs.

 

[seancasey23]

i just got a reply over on the body recomp forums on the BodyFat Estimation Thread and someone guessed me over 15% i am heart broken lol aside from my dismay, lyle recommends starting a bulking cycle at 10% BF and starting a cutting cycle at 15% staying within that BF range year round. Given this, should i continue cutting? I could've sworn I was at 11% - 12% my digital scale reads my BF at 10.5% ughhh

 

[Totentanz]

I would not put much stock in someone's estimation of bodyfat based on just your picture. Get some skinfold calipers if you want a better assessment. Everyone stores bodyfat differently. Digital scales are not accurate at all, the only thing I rely on is skinfolds, it is much easier to measure consistently each time and know whether your skinfolds are increasing or decreasing, so you know if you are actually losing fat or not.

Furthermore, looking at your pictures, it is pretty obvious that you haven't had your first bulk yet. Your first bulk is kind of like the "newbie effect" and is the one bulk where you can gain a significant amount of muscle naturally. As long as you don't go too overboard with the diet, you can gain a lot of muscle and not a ton of fat. Yes, you are likely not at 10% bodyfat, but if you ate bodyweight(in pounds) x 18 in calories and made sure that total was made up of lean mass(in pounds) x 2 grams of protein per day.

Keep in mind that bulking up and gaining more muscle is going to make future cuts easier.

 

[seancasey23]

thanks guys,

i'm full-on board the bulk train. i have just been eating too little the past few months. GREAT on the wallet but not so much on my muscles. given my goals, i think i'm going to just go on a vanilla HST cycle...

but according to grunt11 i should select my exercises that models work on (i.e. chest, abs, shoulders, biceps) should i bulk these muscles only or do you think, totentanz (and everyone here on thinkmuscle), that i should go for a full body workout to get the most out of my "newbie" bulk?

THANK YOU SO MUCH GUYS, i swear this site has saved me so much directionless months of training! You're the best!

 

[seancasey23]

also totentanz, you said:

Yes, you are likely not at 10% bodyfat, but if you ate bodyweight(in pounds) x 18 in calories and made sure that total was made up of lean mass(in pounds) x 2 grams of protein per day.

Keep in mind that bulking up and gaining more muscle is going to make future cuts easier.

are you saying that if i ate my bodyweight in cals and 2 x LBM in protein that i would reach 10% BF AND gain mass? It looks like your wording suggests the 10% BF is dependent on the eating 18 x bodyweight in calories and 2 x LBM in protein.
i'm probably over-reading over-thinking but i'm not sure.

anyway thanks man

 

[Totentanz]

Sorry, I lost half my post somehow. I meant to suggest that you bulk up by eating that much, and then later cut down to 10%. I feel that although you are not at 10% bodyfat, you can still bulk right now due to the fact that you have not made your newbie gains yet. Everyone's first bulk is their most successful once they have diet and training dialed in. Most likely you will gain fat during this bulk, but I'm willing to wager that you will gain muscle versus fat at a very favorable ratio. It is not unheard of for people to almost nearly maintain their bodyfat percentage when they bulk their first time - this is because although they do gain fat, they gain enough lean mass along with it that their bodyfat percentage remains nearly the same.

As for exercise selection... I would include at least squats for legs with the routine.

 

[seancasey23]

ok so i just finished my first day of 15's

PLEASE DON'T LAUGH AT MY poundage as they are miniscule (but hey according to you guys i haven't had my newbie gains yet and we all have to start somewhere).

the routine:

20 total reps clustered (aiming for target reps on first set in any given microcycle)

1A) Dips:
15RM = Body Weight (I can only do 12 unassisted reps at my body weight)
10RM = 23lbs
5RM = 50lbs

1B) Chin Ups: 15RM = Body Weight (I can only do 10 unassisted reps at my body weight)
10RM = 10lbs
5RM = 20lbs


2A) Lying Leg Raises: 15RM = 10lbs
10RM = 11lbs
5RM = 13lbs

2B) 1 Arm Tricep Extension : 15RM = 26lbs (DB)
10RM = 30lbs
5RM = 36lbs


3A) Cross Body Hammer Curl: 15RM = 26lbs (each DB)
10RM = 30lbs
5Rm = 36lbs

3B) Delt Lateral Raises: 15RM = 26lbs (each DB)
10RM = 30lbs
5Rm = 36lbs


4A) Split-Leg Squats: 15RM = 26 (each DB)
10RM = 30lbs
5Rm = 36lbs


I performed the exercises in a superset where i rested between each exercise and each set 30-60 seconds. For example i did 1A) then i rested 45sec and did 1B) rest 45 sec and do 1A) etc til i got my 20 total reps. should i not superset these exercises??

1st Workout Results:

1A) Dips: 15xBW (assisted), 15xBW (assisted) - the second set i just kept going cause i forgot i was only supposed to do 5 more

1B) Chin Ups: 15xBW (assisted), 5xBW(assisted)

2A) Lying Leg Raises: 12x0lbs, 8x0lbs (i couldn't hit 15 reps the first set)

2B) 1 Arm Tri Extension: 15x13lbs, 5x13lbs

3A) Cross Body Hammer Curl: 15x13lbs, 5x13lbs

3B) Delt Lateral Raises: 10x13lbs, 8x13lbs, 2x13lbs (i could not hit 15 reps the first set)

4A) Split-Leg Squat: 8x13lbs, 8x13lbs, 4x13lbs (i could not hit 15 reps the first set)


So what do you guys think? i don't feel like i do after my usual workout. i feel like i did half a workout. But i'm sure the 3x frequency will make up for it.

AS LONG AS I raise the weight over time and keep the frequency up regardless of my rep scheme i should be good, right? That's the one golden rule i keep reading about.

Anything i should change?

I'm super stoked about the new bulk cycle though. today could be the first day of me gaining 10lbs of lean body mass. that's my goal. i'm not praying for 50lbs my first bulk. a good 10lbs - 15lbs of LBM would be great. Any input to help me get there would be greatly appreciated!!! thanks guys and have a successful day!

 

[wobbles]

You should probably start your own thread. But just a few things i noticed. If you cant hit your rep ranges for 2 sets given that this workout is at 75%, then chances are you've over estimated your maxes (by a fair bit). Also not to take anything away from your motivation. But muscle doesn't come easy (takes a long long time) so just hang in there. Also don't focus on how much muscle your going to gain in X amount of time. Just focus on gaining quality lean body weight over time and don't confuse general weight gain for muscle gains. Gaining 10lbs of muscle in 2 months would seem nearly super human to most people, even during your newbie gains stage. I myself am now past the newbie gains stage and gaining on average 2lbs of muscle a month and have gained 8lbs in the last 6 months. So just be prepared for a decrease and don't get discouraged by it. Worst thing you can do is try to rush it by eating more then your body can process, which results in just getting fat and makes it harder to identify any lbm gains. Best of luck.

Edit: Also if you only want to gain muscle on your shoulders, biceps, chest and not training the other important muscles. Then 10lbs of muscle in those areas will take alot longer then average. Given that 10lbs for most people would be spread all over your body and not just in isolated areas.

 

[seancasey23]

you're right i should start my own thread, sorry about that. but i should state that i might have been keeping a little in the tank since i just got over being sick. but i will look at my maximums again for sure. thanks wobbles!

also, i am not at all demotivated. i know it'll take a while. i was thinking 5-10lbs in 6 - 12 months is perfect. is this too much?

 

[wobbles]

Whats your stats:
age:
height:
weight:
Bodyfat percentage:

and also whats your diet look like, aka macros?

 

[seancasey23]

24 years old. 5'10. 156lbs. 15% - 18% BF according to the BF Estimation thread (mid to upper teens) but 11%BF according to my digital scale.. My macros are going to be 15/70/15 i read bryan's post eating for size and he recommends 15% protein but totentanz said 2xLBM so idk if i should change my macros. Bryan said if ur tall and lean (i'm leaner than stocky) that i should eat more carbs to bulk. Any thoughts? Thanks a lot wobbles. I just want to dial in my diet so i can grow into my newbie gains i'm excited. I thought i already got my newbie gains since my body NEVER looked like it does now. I was a pudgy kid lol

 

[grunt11]

Well I’ve always been short and lean and what’s worked for me is about 2xLBM in protein (probably a little overkill but it ensures I get enough). about 25-30% healthy fats and the rest carbs.

Make sure to weigh yourself the same time every day. I find that right when I get up in the morning works best. Also to get more accurate numbers I weigh myself every day but go by a 7 day running average to actually estimate my body weight since hydration levels alone can vary my weight +/- 2 lbs. after a few weeks of watching the trend adjust your carbs up or down to get you to the weekly weight gain you are shooting for.

Realistically you should only expect to gain ½ lb. of lean body mass/week without drug assistance, and that’s only if you haven’t ever bulked properly before. So shoot for gaining somewhere between ½ lb. to 1 lb. each week. My first HST bulk I gained 30 lbs. in 32 weeks. some of that was fat but for naturally skinny people cutting is usually easier than bulking so the extra fat came off pretty easy for me.

 

[seancasey23]

if i'm going for the model look which is apparently all abs, should i just keep cutting? Or do i really not have the muscle for even this look:



the guy on the right has some good sized pecs, and arms, but the guy on the left just looks cut... they both don't look terribly huge though...

i'm just so confused about what to do. i know i need more muscle but i've worked so hard to get to my current BF level and i'm not even close to 10% (i soooo thought i was at lest 11%)...

 

[seancasey23]

a lot of you guys said to cut first before bulking... even bryan said so. look at this thread:

http://thinkmuscle.com/forum/showthread.php?18239-Cut-or-Bulk-first

i feel like the more i read the more i confuse myself. i'm drowning in differing opinions lol

 

[seancasey23]

i also wanted to show another pic of myself. this is flexed... i thought maybe you guys (totentanz etc.) could judge my musculature better. i will note that this was a few weeks ago...

am i still too skinny?