Protein+Creatine

Redr

New Member
A question for you experts. Im on my first HST cycle and doing fine. I drink a pre workour whey-protein shake and a post workout whey protein shake.

During my next cycle im gonna add creatine to the mix. I know i should take it before the workout, but my question is should I skip the pre workout protein shake? Or skip the the post workout shake or just add the creatine and leave the protein unchanged?
 
This is what I do... and believe it to work very well... there are a number of ways to do this though.

1.25-1.5 hours before I start training I eat my preworkout carbs (usually a bagel or pasta) and take it with 2.5 grams of creatine monohydrate (micronized).

.75-.5 hours before I start training I then drink my protein shake with a tablespoon of flax seed oil.

TRAINING SESSION (now)

Immediately after training I take my protein shake with 45 grams of malto/dextrose mix and eat an additional 30 grams of complex carbs (bread), I take an additional 2.5 grams of creatine at this time.

............. Now, the reasoning behind separating the preworkout meal into two meals is that the first one will allow proper/better creatine absorbtion because it is not in the presence of protein... the protein apart from the carbs also is good because protein/carbs together yeilds a higher insulin response than simply carbs alone... and we do not want too much insulin before/during a workout (arguable... at least I dont.)... The post workout carbs/creatine/protein will not have as good creatine absorbtion but gets the job done. You of course prolly need (may need) different amounts of carbs of course but I just put what I did to show an example. Hope this helps.... I'm no expert but from what I've read and experienced this is one of the better ways to do this.
 
Add the creatine to your preworkout protein drink. Continue to take both protein drinks just as you have been doing.
 
hey bryan wouldn't adding creatine as a post workout enhance delivery since your glycogen levels are near or completely depleted? Wouldn't this increase or assist the transportation of creatine since insulin levels are also being spiked at this time (provided the fact that carbs are taken at this point) ?
 
Taking creatine before working out increases ATP available for immediate use and replenishment. It is a little known fact and I was one who took creatine post workout until I read Bryan's post on it sometime ago and followed up with a little research into nutrient absorption and pre-workout supplementation and decided to give it a shot. Have only done it for ~2 weeks now and it does seem to work.
 
I have tried many different forms of creatine and methods of ingesting it (upon awaking, pre, post), yet have never responded well.

However, my question is this:

I thought that the idea behind taking creatine everyday was to saturate your system with it, such that it is readily available when needed. If this is true, then why is timing important? It seems to me that timing is not that important as long as you take it everyday (with something to enhance absorbtion). As long as your system become saturated, it will be available when needed.

The only way I see the timing of taking to be important is if you are only consuming it on days when you know you will need it. Is this what Bryan is saying?

I could be way off as I have not really paid much attention to creatine since all it did for me was lighten my wallet (it was also much more expensive when I was taking it!).
 
I think the gist of Bryan's advice is that supplementing pre-workout takes advantage of the increased blood flow to the muscles. I think he even cited a study demonstrating as much.

I'm sure this was talked about at length in another thread. I'm not sure what keyword you might search with to find it...
 
Actually, his comments were on the old ThinkMuscle board. Here they are. #6 is the relevant point.

http://www.thinkmuscle.com/forums....ID=2631

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[b said:
Quote[/b] ]1) Creatine uptake into muscle tissue is limited by the activity of the creatine transporter.
2) The creatine transporter is &quot;down-regulated&quot; as the level of creatine inside the muscle cell increases.
3) Creatine only has an effect on muscle cell physiology once it is already inside the cell. Creatine in the blood does nothing for performance...it must be inside the cell.
4) If you load creatine during 5 days (20gm/day), the amount of creatine excreted in the urine goes up DRAMATICALLY by the 3rd day because the muscle cells lose the ability to take in creatine because their transporters are being downregulated.
5) Creatine uptake appears to be either sodium dependant, or highly regulated by sodium transport. Insulin (from carbs) increases sodium uptake into cells, this is why carbs have been shown to increase creatine uptake.
6) Exercise increases creatine uptake. If you take some creatine and sit on a staionary bike and only peddle with one leg, the leg you peddle with will take up more creatine than the leg that is not peddling. (hint: take you creatine before you train)
7) Different forms of creatine do not effect creatine uptake. This is because creatine uptake is limited by the creatine itself, not by its form at the time of ingestion. Once the muscle cell is filled up, it won't take any more. Don't let anybody charge you for any special forms of creatine. Monohydrate works as good as any.
8) Creatine supplementation will result in approximately a 20% increas in phosphocreatine at best.
9) Some people will have a greater response to creatine if their meat intake was low before. Vegetarians respond beautifully to the stuff.
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What Jon said.
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Do you take creatine all year around?

I have been taking it everyday, about 3-4g. I plan to start taking it just on my workout days.
 
I take it every day. I'm not convinced it's the type of thing one needs to cycle. But I'm open to that possibility if someone has a good argument for it.

As for training days only, no, I don't think that's the conclusion one should necessarily draw from Bryan's advice. It's more like if it's a training day, take creatine just before to maximize its effect... but it's still worth taking even on non-training days.

In case you missed it...
http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/HSreport/iss03/cre_iss03.html
 
i think taking it on non training days is a waste of money, ur cells are like a gas tank, once loaded up with creatine it cannot hold anymore, so there is no benefits in taking creatine in your off days. It was showned in a study that an exercised muscle took up 12% more creatine than a non exercised muscle, I take it only on my training days lighter on my wallet also.
 
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[b said:
Quote[/b] (Jon Stark @ Oct. 08 2002,2:18)]I take it every day. I'm not convinced it's the type of thing one needs to cycle. But I'm open to that possibility if someone has a good argument for it.
As for training days only, no, I don't think that's the conclusion one should necessarily draw from Bryan's advice. It's more like if it's a training day, take creatine just before to maximize its effect... but it's still worth taking even on non-training days.
In case you missed it...
http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/HSreport/iss03/cre_iss03.html
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what about the down regulation of creatine transporters?
 
In studies Bryan quotes, exercises triggers muscle growth and protein synthesis that occurs within the following 36 hours. Now, that would include the day after training, which is technically &quot;an off day.&quot; Now, my question is, why would one deny the body potentially growth-aiding creatine on the following day, when it still would help?

-Calkid
 
your muscle has the ability to effectively store creatine.

During your off day ATP usage is nil so your creatine storage wouldn't even be tapped, drinking creatine of off days is like topping off your gas tank. (this is provided that fact that you took creatine the day before)

which leads to point 3 in what bryan said. so its no good if you cant get it in the cell.
 
Your muscles/body lose creatine everyday at a rate of about 0.03 grams/kg bodyweight/day. So the creatine that is stored in your muscles doesn't just stay there, it is slowly lost at pretty much a constant rate.
 
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[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Proteios Posted on Oct. 09 2002,6:39
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your muscle has the ability to effectively store creatine.

During your off day ATP usage is nil so your creatine storage wouldn't even be tapped, drinking creatine of off days is like topping off your gas tank. (this is provided that fact that you took creatine the day before)
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Creatine is source for ATP. You use ATP all day long walking, going up stairs, etc... so technically you could take creatine everday to replenish what you lose just from living. I only take it on training days to save money and for a bit of a boost to my workouts. I am afraid to use it too much during my current HST programs because when I report results after a few cycles, I do not want there to be any doubt that gains were actual muscle and not water retention in the muscle.
 
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