Protein Poll

Discussion in 'Diet & Nutrition' started by SPE, Oct 17, 2002.

  1. SPE

    SPE New Member

    I think I tend to go too far with protein, and am actually quite broke now from it. I get in about 1.5 grams of protein per pound of bw. How much do the rest of you get and do you think I could get by with using less?
     
  2. Janne

    Janne New Member

    1 g/lbs bw is a popular rule of thumb.
     
  3. BIZ

    BIZ New Member

    I get in ~ 180 grams a day at 240 lbs. bodyweight. This is less than what is generally recommended, but I pick my choices wisely. I eat a lot of cottage cheese and I use Driver as well. These are slow digesting proteins and they make up the majority of my protein intake. Whey protein and meat proteins make up about 60-80 grams of my daily intake. I only take whey protein in the morning and pre-workout. Works for me, but not for everyone I am sure.
     
  4. Steve McDermott

    Steve McDermott New Member

    At 195, I get around 230-250g while bulking. So it's around 1.25g/lb.

    Steve
     
  5. NightOp

    NightOp New Member

    1-1.25 for me.

    There are a million threads on this on virtually every board.... do a search anywhere and you will find lots of info... checkout the protein pulse feeding articles/threads as well...
     
  6. vicious

    vicious New Member

    You could arguably do fine with as little as 0.6 per LEAN bodyweight. Most studies seem to show 1.0g/BW as the maximum for increasing nitrogen balance for very heavy training (like college football heavy.) Beyond, it does nothing.

    I get about 1lb/BW, though it's partly because protien powder is just more convenient than fruit or bread. :)

    My hunch is that many of us who take in "too much" protein don't eat enough carbohydrates to match. Eating too much protein can overwhelm the insulin signal to store them, in effect defeating its purpose.

    Some of the amazing testimonials suggests with HST your muscles sucks up protein better than regular training.

    cheers,
    Jules
     
  7. BIZ

    BIZ New Member

    Hypothetically speaking, why would someone ingest 1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight? If a person weighs 240 lbs. (me) and has 8% bodyfat, that means they have roughly 220 pounds of LBM. Of that, less than 200 lbs would be muscle I am guessing. Should you not eat 1 gram of protein per pound of LBM (maybe a little more to support growth) instead of I gram per pound of total BM? This excludes ketogenic diets, and those who are very low carbs by choice.
     
  8. Brixtonian

    Brixtonian Active Member

    I agree with BIZ on this too.

    I take in just under 1g/lb bwt, as I'm 20% bodyfat at the moment.

    My understanding is, that any unused protein can end up being stored as fat anyway - which could be part of my problem, as I have used as much as 2.5g/lb bwt in the past, on much less frequent (HIT) style training.

    I use protein powders for convenience and ease of counting, tho do have an adequate, whole food diet base.
     
  9. I don't think I've seen a credible study that suggests any additional benefit from more than 1.3 grams of protein per kilogram of body mass for any type of athlete. And if there is one, it probably hasn't been replicated.





    d.
     
  10. BIZ

    BIZ New Member

    I think you will find that the people who recommend super high protein intake (1-2 grams per pound of BM) are either using steroids or have been brainwashed into thinking this is necessary by people who use steroids. Again, this excludes keto diets and the sort. A lot of people take in more protein than their muscles can assimilate and end up storing it as fat and mistake their weight gain as muscle. It is an unfortunate myth in bodybuilding that you need tons of protein to grow. Sort of like the high volume approach.
     
  11. Keebler Elf

    Keebler Elf New Member

    Yeah, but that is the real secret to growth...20 sets / muscle and a bucket of powder a day [​IMG]

    I'm with BIZ, I take 1 gram/pd LBM plus a little extra at the moment to test any increased benefit. So far, it's not looking good for my local protein supplier!
     
  12. Bryan Haycock

    Bryan Haycock Administrator Staff Member

    More carbs allows you to get by with less protein...but the effect is more anti-catabolic, rather than anabolic.
     
  13. BIZ

    BIZ New Member

    Bryan:
    Do you agree that some people, sans ketogenic dieters, take in too much protein and this is because of some of the industry hype? You see ads where pros talk about taking in 300 grams of protein a day to grow and there is no way they could get all that from food, so they use "Product A" three times a day. What better way to sell tons of protein to misinformed people? I commend you for never using that ploy, and for being straight forward with us. HSN is good stuff and my staple protein supplement now. There is a thread in the HST section about compensating you. You should read it if you haven't yet. [​IMG]
     
  14. vicious

    vicious New Member

    You mean the one kilo of whey I snorted up my nose isn't working? [​IMG]

    Somebody probably have "enough" protein by eating as little as 0.8g per lean body weight. Especially since HST sans cardio is low volume. So your 220lbs guy who's 10% only "needs" 160g of protein.

    But it's been my observation that HST and non-HST people do better with more. Not that you should eat like Lee Priest or anything. The carb:protein ratio, along with total calories, is IMO more important. Many people who eat huge amounts of protein don't eat enough carbs to gain. But I don't believe you need more than 1.5:1 carbs to protein to get the "anabolic" effect from insulin. I'd just add in monosaturated fat for extra energy.

    cheers,
    Jules
     
  15. Bryan Haycock

    Bryan Haycock Administrator Staff Member

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    It is true, most guys take in too much protein. It isn't that too much protein will hurt them, assuming they are healthy to begin with. But too much protein can actually inhibit gains. I know, it sounds totally contradictory to what you read everywhere, but it is true. Let me explain.

    The ability of the body to grow is effected by the ratio of protein to carbs. It is an inverted U shaped curve where the top or highest point of the curve is a ratio of 12-15% protein to carbs (diet consisting of ~15% protein). At one peak you have all carbs, at the other you have all protein. It has to do with thermogenesis and hormones.

    So, if a skinny guy wants to gain weight, he needs to plan a diet where he gets 15% of his calories from protein.
    Now this may seem contradictory to the general rule of 1 gram per pound bodyweight. I'm not saying that a guy can't gain weight with more than 15% calories from protein. I'm only saying that weight gain is greatest at 15%. He will be ok with an intake of 0.75 grams/pound FFM to gain muscle. In fact, everybody should use FFM instead of bodyweight to plan protein intake. Sometimes its just to hard to figure it out, so most people use bodyweight.

    For a guy who isn't all that skinny, or even a little fat, he should increase his protien intake to 20-25%. This will increase thermogenesis and prevent some fat gain as calories increase above maintenance.
     
  16. Steve McDermott

    Steve McDermott New Member

    Here's another question. I have heard that it's not the amount of protein that people take in, but the actual bump in protein that causes increased growth (I could be wrong). Would it be beneficial to bump protein intake as your HST cycle progresses?

    Steve
     
  17. SPE

    SPE New Member

    Ok. I've actually never heard of the carb/protein ratio being important and if what you are saying is true, I eat WAY too much protein. I will lower it and see how it works. My diet right now is a zig-zag diet in which I consume 1500 cals. on non-training days and 2500 on training days. Do you see merit for this? I feel and have read that this type of diet keeps your metabolism elevated. Also, my first three meals only have protein and fat in them while my last three have only protein and carbs. Are you saying the carb/protein ratio is important in all meals or in a single day? Thanks.
     
  18. vicious

    vicious New Member

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    Wow! Do you mean 12-15% of calories from protein and 85-88% &quot;something else&quot; or 6-8:1 carb:protein?

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    I think the idea is if you take in too much protein, your glucagon levels will be too high for the amino acids to be stored efficiently. Instead they would be used as energy.

    But Bryan uses the word &quot;weight&quot; rather than &quot;muscle&quot;, leading me to think that &quot;optimal&quot; weight gain is indescriminating.

    cheers,
    Jules
     
  19. Spencer

    Spencer New Member

    Things are getting more and more confusing! :confused:

    Bryan, you are kinda like releasing a little of information post by post to keep us glued to the forum...hahaha! :D

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    This is very different from the &quot;eating for size&quot; article and the &quot;1g/lb bodyweight&quot; advice u gave me in the past.

    So, the &quot;hypertrophy is dependent only on mechanical stimulus and incoming amino acids&quot; is wrong??

    What then, is the ideal carbs:protein:fats ratio for optimal muscle gains?? (for a skinny guy?)
     
  20. BIZ

    BIZ New Member

    Thank you for the reply Bryan. As always, very informative!
    My contest is this weekend and I plan to thank you and HSN/HST for all the support when I get my trophy. Thank you.
     

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