RAW MEAT EATERS

Margoth,

I am literally in tears I am laughing so hard. First you play rude, then sarcastically pleasant and then rude again lol. I must say though I love your witty rants. Stay with those a sthey are much more clever!
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In any event, and this is the last time I will say this, there is plenty of science despite what you may otherwise think.

The fact that loads of cultures have and still do eat raw meat shows that bacteria cannot be the intrinsically bad thing. If it was everyone would have long been dead.

If ya drink a bottle of Cyanide, barring some freak reason, you die. Hence, logic would dictate cyanide is bad. Raw foods, meats and veggies and fruits, dont result in absolute sickness or death. In many cultures it is the health promoting food. Anyone with even a small amount of sense will be smart enough to seek out the actual reason sense there is such an obvious contradiction.

Those of us that are for raw meat have usually done that. I am not saying you need to eat it, but there is no reason to be rude to those that make that choice after much research.

Finally, and this still makes me laugh, I am not a troll. I havent even been on Lyles board yet. I did try but I had to register and didnt feel like doing it yet. Frankly, I dont care if you think I am, but I dont even understand the point.

What does one gain by wasting time trying to get somone to agree just for the sake of agreement? All I can figure is that it is pride that makes someone feel that need. And this is usually due to do a lack of confidence or trust in the things they follow.

Margoth, you can think I am crazy and totally disagree. And that is ok!
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But I see no need to be rude, accusatory or anything else. Its just as pointless and rude as the people you say come in here and are rude regarding eating raw meat.

Frankly I see no difference between rude people supporting raw meat and those bashing it. Both demonsrate on obvious need for attention and to have people they dont even know agree with them. As I said, pointless. But hey thats what pride does to people.

I hope we can just agree to disagree and be respectful of each other. I have learned alot here and hope to learn more in the future. So you will have to get used to me lol!
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Lets just sit down and share a large glass of raw milk, some raw fruit and perhaps a nice raw steak.
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God Bless ya Margoth
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Jeff
 
Alright let's put this to rest. Even though I'm sure it won't because fanatcism never let's anything rest.

I just went through about 50 studies (hey it's what I do) on the prevelance of microbes on organic vs conventional beef and dairy farms. Guess what it clearly shows.

There is NO significant difference in the prevelance of E Coli, Salmonella, Campylobacter spp, and NO significant difference in Milk tanks tested for Staphylococcus aureus. BUt, it does show that conventional farms have a higher resistance to some anti-microbials but not all.

So, to me at least, this leads me to believe that eating raw meat from either organic or conventional still leads to the same percentage of possibly contracting these microbes. Compound that with eating it raw and I personally feel you are setting yourself up for a belly ache, dynamo shits, and worse. Now of course you could become your own cattle farm and your own butcher and then at lteast you would know were your meat has been but overall the term "organic" doesn't lessen your risk in contracting these microbes but I'm pretty sure it increases the price you'll pay for that steak.

Ok Dan but what about veggies, well I looked at that as well and guess what, yes organic veggie farmers had lower incidence of pesticides and some other compounds and even somewhat higher levels of follate but overall non of the compounds tested for showed any elevations above what is considered safe for consumption. Now of course a debate can be had on what levels are considered safe but I'm not going there.
 
Dan,

I agree that commercial farms are downright filty places for "bad" bacteria. There are all sorts of unnatural bacteria on 'em that wouldnt normally exist in nature and hence are quite dangerous. As I said earlier, feeding cows grains and meat byproducts acidifies their stomachs and produces an acid and immune strain of ecoli. This isnt natural and IS dangerous.

Thats why I said to get grassfed products. Any bacteria is natural and, from my studies, good for health. My anus is still nice and normal lol!
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Anyway, I just wanted to let Margoth know I finally went to Lyles forum and looked around. I am a bit confused as to why you would say my diet is like theirs? So far, all I have seen in the forums are people eating tons of grains and other junk. I did a search for "raw" and didnt find anything on raw meat.

It seems to me these guys eat a crappy version of a ketogenic diet. Am I just missing something on this forum? It was the bodtrecomposition one correct?

I am gonna post a question about raw meat later. Maybe someone will answer me. But as they seem to eat crap food and advocate alot of supplements, its seems unlikey I will agree with them on diet. We shall see lol. I am thinking that if I am gonna be called a troll though, maybe I can find a website I agree with to say I am from rather one that seems to promote a bunch of garbage I dont agree with.

Jeff
 
Wow.

I remember wisslewj's registration request because it seemed like something a spambot would come up with (looks kinda random and hard to read). But I approved it anyway because the submitted profile checked out, and just hoped to God that it was not a mistake. Now, after reading 5 pages of this thread, and having a few laughs at the funny and witty retorts found here, I am sure I made the right decision
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Troll or no troll, fine by me. As long as there's no spam, I'm happy.
 
Hey JV,

Nice to meet ya. My name is actually my last name minus one letter (its what they do at work) plus my wifes first initial and mine. Hence wissle plus W and J.

See there is a method to the madness
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Sci,

I finally posted over there and to my suprises, there ya were!
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I didnt know you belonged there as well.

In any event, as I said above, I dont think they eat like me. The one guy said he didnt know anyone on there that ate raw meat. Perhaps you guys have the wrong board?

They do do alot of ketogenic stuff....though it sounded like noone followed that lol. they were all eating peanut butter, bagels and bread. Thats hardly how I eat and not really ketogenic...unless they eat half a slice of the bread.
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Anyway, maybe someone else will say something. We shall see.
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Jeff
 
I've been eating raw or very rare meat for close to a year, while I havent had the muscle gains that the original poster has in this thread, I do find it quite enjoyable and believe that it is very much safe if you stick to organic/grassfed beef.
 
Fooz,

I didnt really start gaining any weight on raw until I started working out. I was on it for 2 months and gained just a small amount. (felt good though lol)

However, once I started training hard, the weight came real fast. Though, as I said, it did level off in week 7 and stopped all together in week eight. Strength continued to go up still but not mass. I am hoping an SD session will allow for more growth again.

All I know is I have studied it thoroughly before doing this and its works great for me. Heck, if it was so dangerous, the human species would have long ago died out and the hundreds of cultures today doing would also be dead. But thats not the case lol.

But I agree with ya. They need to be animals eating their natural diet. Not mutant freaky cows and chickens on steroids!
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So, fooz, what does your diet look like? And if ya dont feel comfy posting it here due to all the jeering, you can always email me. However, I see no reason to be bothered by these guys. They actually give me a good chuckle lol.
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Anyway, Godbless
Jeff

PS: one thing I did notice was that beef clearly made the difference in muscle gains and strength. This is no suprise though as raw beef has alot of BCAA's and creatine as well as some other goodies that get destoyed or messed up by heat.

And since I am SURE that most of you guys eat your steaks rare, you are not avoiding bacteria lol. Might as well just go all the way and get all the benefits.
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I laugh at how many people jeer but almost assuredly eat rare steaks.
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I will leave the discussion, approval or debunking (as the case maybe) of this topic, and any claims made here, to experts and scientists like Aaron. All I will say here is that HST done right will work for you, regardless of your diet preferences as long as you are supplied with enough energy and nutrition for building muscle. Welcome to the forum, and while I doubt that many people here will actually agree with you (they also have the right to form their own opinions, regardless of how educated or misinformed it may be), it is not a requirement of hypertrophy to be the most popular kid on the block. HST will work for you as it has worked for all those who apply its principles in their training.

Regards,
-JV
 
Jvroig,

Thanks for the advice.
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I am not trying to win any coverts, simply sharing what I do and what works well for me. So I agree with ya that all opinions are welcome. (I just wish some were not presented so rudely and sarcastically. But even kids know how to use the net these days!
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)

I have been studying the HST and muscle physiology these last few days and it looks very promising. As such I am excited to get started and will be a week from today after a week and a half of SD.

My only confusion now is setting up my exact routine. Compared to what I am used to, the vanilla workout is just too easy, even 3 days a week.

But I really like what Sci has done by lowering the number of exercises and hence upping the number of sets. I may try something like that!
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I have a very large exercise capacity and just feel like 2 sets only for 7 exercises just wont cut it.

What, in your experience, is the maximum number of over all sets and reps that is advisable in general for the average joe? I figure I will learn as I go what works for me. But as I want to emphasize more chest and shoudler growth I was thinking of dropping my arm, calf and even ab exercises (I already have a 6 pack) and adding to the chest and shouldr sets.

Will this work for emphasizing those areas for growth or will I just force those muscle into faster adaptation, and hence less overall growth?

Thanks in advance for all the help!
Jeff
 
<div>
(wisslewj @ Apr. 23 2007,23:37)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Jvroig,

 As such I am excited to get started and will be a week from today after a week and a half of SD.

My only confusion now is setting up my exact routine.  Compared to what I am used to, the vanilla workout is just too easy, even 3 days a week.  </div>
Did you test your RM's before the SD?

Volume is not confusing at all. Simply take the same weekly volume you've been using and apply it more frequently with prorgessive loading.

Don't over think it.
 
<div>
(scientific muscle @ Apr. 22 2007,23:34)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Finally this thread has officially moved to bodyrecomposition.com.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/forums....t=22695

Those guys are way more into diet and nutrition over there. You will get far more stimulating conversation than here. Smart move posting there.
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Damn that forum is very entertaining. People getting yelled at and cussed at even by Lyle. Why would you talk to people like that if you wanted them to buy your books or are his books just a side thing and he doesn't care if you buy them? I think it's funny and I'm no business expert but I have to wonder if that hurts his sales.
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Dan,

Yeah figured those out about 4 days ago. I do understand what the Faq says about volume, I am just wanting to maximize chest and shoulder growth and moreso then anything else. My arms seem to grow easily and I want to keep my proportions.

Kaos,

yeah there were some rude people there as well as here. I figure ya find rude people everywhere. I find its best to just ignore the rudeness and be polite back. Fighting just begets more fighting. When you dont fight back they just where themselves out lol. Like a crying baby!
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Steve,

Yeah I worked out alot in the past. I made good strength gains as I trained for sports but could never make any size gains. The raw diet really helped that alot. Hopefully it will continue while using this HST program.
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Why ya ask?

Jeff
 
<div>
(wisslewj @ Apr. 24 2007,17:03)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Dan,

Yeah figured those out about 4 days ago.  I do understand what the Faq says about volume, I am just wanting to maximize chest and shoulder growth and moreso then anything else.  My arms seem to grow easily and I want to keep my proportions.

Kaos,

yeah there were some rude people there as well as here.  I figure ya find rude people everywhere.  I find its best to just ignore the rudeness and be polite back.  Fighting just begets more fighting.  When you dont fight back they just where themselves out lol.  Like a crying baby!  
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Steve,

Yeah I worked out alot in the past.  I made good strength gains as I trained for sports but could never make any size gains.  The raw diet really helped that alot.  Hopefully it will continue while using this HST program.  
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Why ya ask?

Jeff</div>
Once you get pretty strong, 2 sets each of 7 exercises will not be a light workout as you get near the end of your cycles.
 
If your workout is way too easy, you screwed up when you set it up. It should be challenging, but not impossible and definitely not way too easy.

Are you adding weights yet when you bench or are you still using just the bar? That could be the problem.

Just joking. Seriously though, if it is way too easy then you should look at how you set it up.
 
Well, I know alot about big Pharma. My wife works for one and I deal with one.

The more meat and fat I eat and the less carbs I stuff into myself, the leaner I am getting.

Totally absurd. I can´t´really go any lower on the carbs due to the bike racing, but once the season is over andI have any fat left to lose, I will see how low I can go.

I am about a 30% raw meat eater. We had a birthday party today in the lab, and I ate so much meat, the people where freaking that I would have a coronary ( as the shoveled freedom fires down their throats.) I wipped out my last blood test tp show them my total cholesterol count of 175 and my boss thought I was Bull shitting.

Hilarious.
 
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