Sample HST cycle
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Lifting N Tx
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(scientific muscle @ May 10 2007,18:22)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">The embarrassing part is that Bryan has suggested this from the beginning!!!
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I suggest you do 2 sets per exercise during the 15s. Then do 2 sets during the first week of 10s, and 1 set during the second week of 10s. Then do 2 sets during the first week of 5s, and finish doing one set (after warm ups of course) during the last week of 5s. Always warm up first regardless of how many work sets you are doing. </div>
Week1 2x15 =30 reps
Week2 2x15 =30 reps
Week3 2x10 =20 reps
Week4 1x10 =10 reps
Week5 2x5 =10 reps
Week6 1x5 =5 reps
So you have dual-factor theory...volume slowly reduced while intensity slowly increases. I know that is not WHY he did it, but it still fit the dual-factor model PERFECTLY.
And this ALL directly from the HST FAQ which has been around for years!</div>
Great thread and post, Sci. I'm doing something similar in my current HST cycle. In the previous one I did 1x15, 2x10, 3x5. I set some PRs at the end of the 5s, then quickly hit the wall and my strength started to decline. Not that I think I really got weaker, but too much CNS fatigue accumulated.
I found some of the same FAQ that you found, plus others, and came up with a similar scheme. I'm currently aiming for a modest dual factor effect within each 2 week cycle. There's another post by Bryan where he mentions that instead of manipulating fatigue like an explicit dual factor program, HST aims to keep it constant. The thing is, for some of us, keeping fatigue (primarily CNS fatigue, not metabolic fatigue) even constant requires declining volume as the weights get heavier. The FAQ also has posts by Bryan (I think it's the "how many sets one"
talking about various signs that you may need more volume. If you aren't sore at times, aren't growing, etc., you may need more volume. In the light weights this is true of me. So I find the need for several sets with the light weights, but can't do many sets for long when things get heavy.
For me, constant volume just doesn't allow extending cycles very long, and seems suboptimal. I suspect that really strong folks will find this even more true.
(scientific muscle @ May 10 2007,18:22)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">The embarrassing part is that Bryan has suggested this from the beginning!!!
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I suggest you do 2 sets per exercise during the 15s. Then do 2 sets during the first week of 10s, and 1 set during the second week of 10s. Then do 2 sets during the first week of 5s, and finish doing one set (after warm ups of course) during the last week of 5s. Always warm up first regardless of how many work sets you are doing. </div>
Week1 2x15 =30 reps
Week2 2x15 =30 reps
Week3 2x10 =20 reps
Week4 1x10 =10 reps
Week5 2x5 =10 reps
Week6 1x5 =5 reps
So you have dual-factor theory...volume slowly reduced while intensity slowly increases. I know that is not WHY he did it, but it still fit the dual-factor model PERFECTLY.
And this ALL directly from the HST FAQ which has been around for years!</div>
Great thread and post, Sci. I'm doing something similar in my current HST cycle. In the previous one I did 1x15, 2x10, 3x5. I set some PRs at the end of the 5s, then quickly hit the wall and my strength started to decline. Not that I think I really got weaker, but too much CNS fatigue accumulated.
I found some of the same FAQ that you found, plus others, and came up with a similar scheme. I'm currently aiming for a modest dual factor effect within each 2 week cycle. There's another post by Bryan where he mentions that instead of manipulating fatigue like an explicit dual factor program, HST aims to keep it constant. The thing is, for some of us, keeping fatigue (primarily CNS fatigue, not metabolic fatigue) even constant requires declining volume as the weights get heavier. The FAQ also has posts by Bryan (I think it's the "how many sets one"
talking about various signs that you may need more volume. If you aren't sore at times, aren't growing, etc., you may need more volume. In the light weights this is true of me. So I find the need for several sets with the light weights, but can't do many sets for long when things get heavy.For me, constant volume just doesn't allow extending cycles very long, and seems suboptimal. I suspect that really strong folks will find this even more true.
scientific muscle
New Member
Your post couldn't line up better with my thinking.
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">For me, constant volume just doesn't allow extending cycles very long, and seems suboptimal. I suspect that really strong folks will find this even more true.
</div>Wasn't Steve J doing single top sets? I think so. Not sure what the ramp up to that top set was though?
Anyway, in view of the discussion here for my new cycle I will be doing this:
15s x 2 sets
10s x 3 to 2 sets
5s x 4 to 3 (or perhaps even 2) sets
3s x 4 to 2 sets
During the 3s I will also add in negs where practical.
</div>Wasn't Steve J doing single top sets? I think so. Not sure what the ramp up to that top set was though?
Anyway, in view of the discussion here for my new cycle I will be doing this:
15s x 2 sets
10s x 3 to 2 sets
5s x 4 to 3 (or perhaps even 2) sets
3s x 4 to 2 sets
During the 3s I will also add in negs where practical.
UFGatorDude30
New Member
Sci, what are your thoughts on doing a 6-week cycle instead of an 8 like the traditional HST shows. I noticed your scheme had it set up for 6, and I'm trying to decide if I should stop at 6 or keep going to 8.
In my current cycle, I have it planned to do:
Cluster Repping
Weeks 1 and 2 30 reps (Around sets of 10) Done
Weeks 3 and 4 20 reps (Around sets of 10) Halfway
Weeks 5 and 6 15 reps (Around sets of 5)
Weeks 7 and 8 10 reps (Around sets of 5)
Currently in week 3
.
In my current cycle, I have it planned to do:
Cluster Repping
Weeks 1 and 2 30 reps (Around sets of 10) Done
Weeks 3 and 4 20 reps (Around sets of 10) Halfway
Weeks 5 and 6 15 reps (Around sets of 5)
Weeks 7 and 8 10 reps (Around sets of 5)
Currently in week 3
scientific muscle
New Member
that looks good what you have. If your progression is linear, shorter cycle are necessary otherwise you reach the top loads quickly and then burn out.
If you are undulating progression, then the cycles can be longer. Imo either will work well.
If you are undulating progression, then the cycles can be longer. Imo either will work well.
Lifting N Tx
New Member
<div>
(Lol @ May 16 2007,07:36)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Wasn't Steve J doing single top sets? I think so. Not sure what the ramp up to that top set was though?</div>
I believe he was doing 1 top set, with about 2 exercises per body part. So, effectively 2 top sets per body part. Not a lot of ramp-up IIRC.
I believe he was doing 12-8-5 reps or something like that also, which may be a factor in what worked for him. He did get good results for some time with that. By good results, I mean getting at least a little stronger each cycle, which is a good result for anyone as advanced as he is.
I'd say it fits with my contention about a limited number of heavy sets being especially needed by the really strong. He may not have needed more sets with the lighter loads since he didn't use the "normal" HST rep ranges. Of course, there can always be exceptions given human variation.
If some of what I said isn't accurate, maybe Steve will see it and correct me, but that's what I recall.
(Lol @ May 16 2007,07:36)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Wasn't Steve J doing single top sets? I think so. Not sure what the ramp up to that top set was though?</div>
I believe he was doing 1 top set, with about 2 exercises per body part. So, effectively 2 top sets per body part. Not a lot of ramp-up IIRC.
I believe he was doing 12-8-5 reps or something like that also, which may be a factor in what worked for him. He did get good results for some time with that. By good results, I mean getting at least a little stronger each cycle, which is a good result for anyone as advanced as he is.
I'd say it fits with my contention about a limited number of heavy sets being especially needed by the really strong. He may not have needed more sets with the lighter loads since he didn't use the "normal" HST rep ranges. Of course, there can always be exceptions given human variation.
If some of what I said isn't accurate, maybe Steve will see it and correct me, but that's what I recall.
heyhey guys!!! new to hst, i've found my rm's, can't wait to start!!!
i have a feeeew questions hey regarding total volume. is it okay to do 1 set per exercise during 15s, 1 set per ex during 10s, and 2 sets per ex in the 5s??? then total volume is maintained (15, 10, 10). although it isn't alot of volume, but is it enough for hypertrophy honestly??? i've been training in various ways for about a year and a half or so so yeah, i would classify myself as a beginner still, i've gained about 20 kgs of weight (muscle and a bit of fat) so far so yeah, i would wanna do the bare minimum at the start of my first hst cycle.
i was curious as to what bryan suggest in the faq:
"I suggest you do 2 sets per exercise during the 15s. Then do 2 sets during the first week of 10s, and 1 set during the second week of 10s. Then do 2 sets during the first week of 5s, and finish doing one set (after warm ups of course) during the last week of 5s. Always warm up first regardless of how many work sets you are doing."
but then i read other parts he has written how he tries to maintain a constant total volume by increasing the sets as the next rep-range block has come up. i just DON'T KNOW what to do hey, i'm thinking of doing what he suggests (2 sets for 15s, 2 sets first week of 10s and 5s, 1 set for second week of 10s and 5s), but then the total volume is dropping, i just don't know if that HAS and effect on hypertrophy cos even THOUGH the loads are increasing, the total work output is dropping!!!
so yeah, thanks for reading guys, and i hope to hear from you soon!!! (i hope bryan answers too haha)
thanks again
Simon
i have a feeeew questions hey regarding total volume. is it okay to do 1 set per exercise during 15s, 1 set per ex during 10s, and 2 sets per ex in the 5s??? then total volume is maintained (15, 10, 10). although it isn't alot of volume, but is it enough for hypertrophy honestly??? i've been training in various ways for about a year and a half or so so yeah, i would classify myself as a beginner still, i've gained about 20 kgs of weight (muscle and a bit of fat) so far so yeah, i would wanna do the bare minimum at the start of my first hst cycle.
i was curious as to what bryan suggest in the faq:
"I suggest you do 2 sets per exercise during the 15s. Then do 2 sets during the first week of 10s, and 1 set during the second week of 10s. Then do 2 sets during the first week of 5s, and finish doing one set (after warm ups of course) during the last week of 5s. Always warm up first regardless of how many work sets you are doing."
but then i read other parts he has written how he tries to maintain a constant total volume by increasing the sets as the next rep-range block has come up. i just DON'T KNOW what to do hey, i'm thinking of doing what he suggests (2 sets for 15s, 2 sets first week of 10s and 5s, 1 set for second week of 10s and 5s), but then the total volume is dropping, i just don't know if that HAS and effect on hypertrophy cos even THOUGH the loads are increasing, the total work output is dropping!!!
so yeah, thanks for reading guys, and i hope to hear from you soon!!! (i hope bryan answers too haha)
thanks again
Simon
UFGatorDude30
New Member
Doing total reps of 15, 10, then 10 would not be maintaining total volume... staying at 15 reps would. There has actually been a lot of discussion on this subject lately, I think the generally concensus has been that maintaining volume is not as important as progessive load. Read this entire post for a better understanding.
Don't forget that volume is not just rep count. It is reps x load and is proportional to work done (easily confused because if the load stays the same then an increase in reps is an increase in volume). However, if your load is progressing and you do 1 x 10 in the 10s and then 2 x 5 in the 5s your volume is increasing.
The volume that is right for you will vary according to your conditioning and strength level. Good idea to find out the minimum amount of work required for you to still gain. Go with what you have planned and see how you get on.
The volume that is right for you will vary according to your conditioning and strength level. Good idea to find out the minimum amount of work required for you to still gain. Go with what you have planned and see how you get on.
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Week one
Monday- 3x10 with 75% of 10 rm
Wednesday- 3x10 with 80% of 10 rm
Friday- 3x10 with 85% of 10 rm
Week two
Monday- 3x10 with 90% of 10 rm
Wednesday- 3x10 with 95% of 10 rm
Friday- 3x10 with 100% of 10 rm
Week three
Monday- 3x5 with 75% of 5 rm
Wednesday- 3x5 with 80% of 5 rm
Friday- 3x5 with 85% of 5 rm
Week four
Monday- 3x5 with 90% of 5 rm
Wednesday- 3x5 with 95% of 5 rm
Friday- 3x5 with 100% of 5 rm
Week five
Monday- 3x5 with 100% of 5 rm
Wednesday- 3x5 with 100% of 5 rm
Friday- 3x5 with 100% of 5 rm
Week six
Monday- 3x5 with 105% of 5 rm
Wednesday- 3x5 with 105% of 5 rm
Friday- 3x5 with 105% of 5 rm</div>
will it be ok to zigzag with this setup?
Monday- 3x10 with 75% of 10 rm
Wednesday- 3x10 with 80% of 10 rm
Friday- 3x10 with 85% of 10 rm
Week two
Monday- 3x10 with 90% of 10 rm
Wednesday- 3x10 with 95% of 10 rm
Friday- 3x10 with 100% of 10 rm
Week three
Monday- 3x5 with 75% of 5 rm
Wednesday- 3x5 with 80% of 5 rm
Friday- 3x5 with 85% of 5 rm
Week four
Monday- 3x5 with 90% of 5 rm
Wednesday- 3x5 with 95% of 5 rm
Friday- 3x5 with 100% of 5 rm
Week five
Monday- 3x5 with 100% of 5 rm
Wednesday- 3x5 with 100% of 5 rm
Friday- 3x5 with 100% of 5 rm
Week six
Monday- 3x5 with 105% of 5 rm
Wednesday- 3x5 with 105% of 5 rm
Friday- 3x5 with 105% of 5 rm</div>
will it be ok to zigzag with this setup?
scientific muscle
New Member
yes.
Bulldog
Active Member
I have found that I have to zigzag in my cycles. If I don't I'm burnt out by the second week of 5's and I have no desire to keep pressing on. If I zigzag it gives me a chance for some active recovery and I feel much fresher going into my 3rd and 4th week of 5's (which I just finished today).
I have also found that 2 work sets is my magic number no matter what rep range I'm working in. So I do 2x15 2x10 and 2x5. Although if I'm feeling really good on a particular day I may do one set of another exercise in the 5's. So if I did 2 sets of incline bench I may still do one set of dips. Or if I did 2 sets of barbell rows I may do one set of pull-ups. But that is the exception rather than the rule for me.
I have also found that 2 work sets is my magic number no matter what rep range I'm working in. So I do 2x15 2x10 and 2x5. Although if I'm feeling really good on a particular day I may do one set of another exercise in the 5's. So if I did 2 sets of incline bench I may still do one set of dips. Or if I did 2 sets of barbell rows I may do one set of pull-ups. But that is the exception rather than the rule for me.
I'm in my 3rd cycle at the moment. I've briefly experimented with 4 * 5, but have slashed back to 1* 5 for the 2nd week.
For 1st cycle I did 1 * 15, 2* 10, 3* 5 (same for negatives). I made good gains in the 10's, but not much in the 5's as I ended up fatiguing myself.
For me, anymore than 2 sets per excercise brings about too much fatigue and no results.
For 1st cycle I did 1 * 15, 2* 10, 3* 5 (same for negatives). I made good gains in the 10's, but not much in the 5's as I ended up fatiguing myself.
For me, anymore than 2 sets per excercise brings about too much fatigue and no results.
RUSS
Member
Thanks SCI for this great thread, it really makes a lot of sense and provides a practical solution for some of the frustrating "wall hitting" when going "vanilla" ie.- 1x15,2x10, 3x5...
2x15,2x15,2x10,1x10,2x5,1x5 makes a lot of sense based on my HST experience and should solve some of the less than optimal strength gains I've previously considered "the price you pay" for a hypertrophy based program by managing fatigue to enable one to really push the negative (3's,2's,1's or whatever extension plan used) portion and in theory end the cycle with a 2-4 week phase in which there is still enough in the tank to see some motivating jumps in the numbers.Thanks again.
2x15,2x15,2x10,1x10,2x5,1x5 makes a lot of sense based on my HST experience and should solve some of the less than optimal strength gains I've previously considered "the price you pay" for a hypertrophy based program by managing fatigue to enable one to really push the negative (3's,2's,1's or whatever extension plan used) portion and in theory end the cycle with a 2-4 week phase in which there is still enough in the tank to see some motivating jumps in the numbers.Thanks again.
hi guys, thanks heaps for your insight!
sorry to ask this but, what's "vanilla"
(as in the terminology used here lol) is it like keeping an almost constant total volume? (differs from total workload may i add
)
ah ok so RUSS you would recommend 2x15,2x15,2x10,1x10,2x5,1x5? cos i have done higher volume than this in my previous training method (4 sets of 8 reps, frequency of twice a week), so if i used that in hst, my volume would be lower than i did previously. you would still recommend i do that? but then again, brian states that volume IS kept lower to accommodate for the higher frequency AND increasing loads so fatigue doesn't interfere too much.
thanks
Simon
sorry to ask this but, what's "vanilla"
ah ok so RUSS you would recommend 2x15,2x15,2x10,1x10,2x5,1x5? cos i have done higher volume than this in my previous training method (4 sets of 8 reps, frequency of twice a week), so if i used that in hst, my volume would be lower than i did previously. you would still recommend i do that? but then again, brian states that volume IS kept lower to accommodate for the higher frequency AND increasing loads so fatigue doesn't interfere too much.
thanks
Simon
RUSS
Member
<div>
(_Simon_ @ May 22 2007,07:38)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">ah ok so RUSS you would recommend 2x15,2x15,2x10,1x10,2x5,1x5? cos i have done higher volume than this in my previous training method (4 sets of 8 reps, frequency of twice a week), so if i used that in hst, my volume would be lower than i did previously. you would still recommend i do that? but then again, brian states that volume IS kept lower to accommodate for the higher frequency AND increasing loads so fatigue doesn't interfere too much.
thanks
Simon</div>
Firstly, if you've been hitting it 2x/wk @ 4x8 in a typical linear progression for any substantial amount of time , switching to HST in any form - (vanilla or otherwise) will absolutely result in superior hypertrophy (as long as the principles are applied).
I will try to define "vanilla HST" for you :
In it's most distilled form , "vanilla" should consist of a MINIMUM number of movements ( I use only 4 for vanilla), all chosen for MAXIMUM compound effect, (deadlifts,squats, dips/bench, overhead pressing, rows,chins ect.ect. - all perennial favorites to choose from).
most typically these would be performed in a total body manner (no split) 3x/wk (M, T, F,), after a 9-14 day SD (total refraining from lifting) using a 1x15,2x10,3x5 template advancing to the next scheme in two week "micro cycles".Weeks 7 & 8 use negatives when possible or continue until progress (load) stalls on the 5's. Rinse, repeat...
this is undeniably and sometimes ( especially when switching from HIT or high volume) shockingly effective as a hypertrophy focused Program.
For some (such as myself) who just can't rid themselves of that egotistical little powerlifter voice in thier head -it can be weird to be getting bigger at a pace ahead of strength gains ( not to say that they don't happen- they do , but it IS after all a hypertrophy program). IMHO and based on actually using HST for sometime now strength gains could be maximized without sacrificing hypertrophy or "bastardizing" HST into an unrecognizable "mutt" of a program. SCI's finding and sharing the 30,30,20,10,10,5 should be just the ticket to make this happen .
Lastly I think all of us began HST with a "leap of faith" so to speak, and not without some healthy skepticism , especially HITers and high volume guys, we continue because it works and delivers what it claims PERIOD. There is a lot of irrefutable "absolutes" we call principles that are built into HST - understanding them well enough to write a dissertation on them is not prerequisite for them working ... in fact experiential knowledge of them will always be deeper than cerebral understanding of them without application. So - have YOU HSTed yet?
(_Simon_ @ May 22 2007,07:38)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">ah ok so RUSS you would recommend 2x15,2x15,2x10,1x10,2x5,1x5? cos i have done higher volume than this in my previous training method (4 sets of 8 reps, frequency of twice a week), so if i used that in hst, my volume would be lower than i did previously. you would still recommend i do that? but then again, brian states that volume IS kept lower to accommodate for the higher frequency AND increasing loads so fatigue doesn't interfere too much.
thanks
Simon</div>
Firstly, if you've been hitting it 2x/wk @ 4x8 in a typical linear progression for any substantial amount of time , switching to HST in any form - (vanilla or otherwise) will absolutely result in superior hypertrophy (as long as the principles are applied).
I will try to define "vanilla HST" for you :
In it's most distilled form , "vanilla" should consist of a MINIMUM number of movements ( I use only 4 for vanilla), all chosen for MAXIMUM compound effect, (deadlifts,squats, dips/bench, overhead pressing, rows,chins ect.ect. - all perennial favorites to choose from).
most typically these would be performed in a total body manner (no split) 3x/wk (M, T, F,), after a 9-14 day SD (total refraining from lifting) using a 1x15,2x10,3x5 template advancing to the next scheme in two week "micro cycles".Weeks 7 & 8 use negatives when possible or continue until progress (load) stalls on the 5's. Rinse, repeat...
this is undeniably and sometimes ( especially when switching from HIT or high volume) shockingly effective as a hypertrophy focused Program.
For some (such as myself) who just can't rid themselves of that egotistical little powerlifter voice in thier head -it can be weird to be getting bigger at a pace ahead of strength gains ( not to say that they don't happen- they do , but it IS after all a hypertrophy program). IMHO and based on actually using HST for sometime now strength gains could be maximized without sacrificing hypertrophy or "bastardizing" HST into an unrecognizable "mutt" of a program. SCI's finding and sharing the 30,30,20,10,10,5 should be just the ticket to make this happen .
Lastly I think all of us began HST with a "leap of faith" so to speak, and not without some healthy skepticism , especially HITers and high volume guys, we continue because it works and delivers what it claims PERIOD. There is a lot of irrefutable "absolutes" we call principles that are built into HST - understanding them well enough to write a dissertation on them is not prerequisite for them working ... in fact experiential knowledge of them will always be deeper than cerebral understanding of them without application. So - have YOU HSTed yet?
<div>
(Bulldog @ May 20 2007,20:56)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I have found that I have to zigzag in my cycles. If I don't I'm burnt out by the second week of 5's and I have no desire to keep pressing on. If I zigzag it gives me a chance for some active recovery and I feel much fresher going into my 3rd and 4th week of 5's (which I just finished today).
I have also found that 2 work sets is my magic number no matter what rep range I'm working in. So I do 2x15 2x10 and 2x5. Although if I'm feeling really good on a particular day I may do one set of another exercise in the 5's. So if I did 2 sets of incline bench I may still do one set of dips. Or if I did 2 sets of barbell rows I may do one set of pull-ups. But that is the exception rather than the rule for me.</div>
my thoughts exactly...I get too tired and my body can't recover due to added work related stress...
(Bulldog @ May 20 2007,20:56)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I have found that I have to zigzag in my cycles. If I don't I'm burnt out by the second week of 5's and I have no desire to keep pressing on. If I zigzag it gives me a chance for some active recovery and I feel much fresher going into my 3rd and 4th week of 5's (which I just finished today).
I have also found that 2 work sets is my magic number no matter what rep range I'm working in. So I do 2x15 2x10 and 2x5. Although if I'm feeling really good on a particular day I may do one set of another exercise in the 5's. So if I did 2 sets of incline bench I may still do one set of dips. Or if I did 2 sets of barbell rows I may do one set of pull-ups. But that is the exception rather than the rule for me.</div>
my thoughts exactly...I get too tired and my body can't recover due to added work related stress...