Simplify and Win!

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(Fausto @ Oct. 26 2006,13:46)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck...then it must be a ..... </div>

Yeah, that is still not confusing the muscle, but a technique, O &amp; G uses a similar technique.

Our pohysiology is too complicated to get &quot;confused&quot; that is why I say it is a retarded way of putting things, nothin in our body gets &quot;confused&quot;, IMO, our Maker thought things out just right!

So as you say it must be a duck!
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Although I agree with Fausto lets look into this some more. I agree neural learning is a key and when you keep exercises to a minimum the body adapts and learns the movement patterns better (or so it seems) hence you make quicker strength gains which should bring on muscle gains. When this stops or plateau's one should SD....however what if you could activate some other fibers with different angles or exercises hence not having to SD as quickly.....lets look at this closer.

I am aware you start lighter and increase poundages until reaching your max on the last workout on any given rep range but again, should failure be reached or should more reps be completed if possible for even the latter stages of a cycle?




Keep in mind that “starting light” ONLY works after Strategic (or accidental) Deconditioning. If you go straight from training heavy to training light, the stimulus will be inadequate to cause growth.



Even though that beginning of an HST cycle is relatively light, it must still be heavy enough. What’s “heavy enough” is determined by the condition of the muscle at the time the load is applied. Don’t be fooled into thinking fatigue is the indicator of what’s heavy enough. It isn’t. Have you ever done something you weren’t accustomed to doing and you got sore the next day? Even though the weight was relatively light or the activity wasn’t even strenuous? This is a manifestation of the distinction between perceived effort and the mechanical effects of loading muscle tissue. In other words, it felt easy, but I still got sore.

Does this mean that doing exercises you are not accustomed to could cause some growth?

We all know soreness is not a indicator of growth...but IMO it looks like it could be???

This is a statement from Bryan Haycock from one of his articles.

Discuss...
 
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(Joe.Muscle @ Feb. 28 2007,12:12)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Have you ever done something you weren’t accustomed to doing and you got sore the next day?[/b] Even though the weight was relatively light or the activity wasn’t even strenuous? This is a manifestation of the distinction between perceived effort and the mechanical effects of loading muscle tissue. In other words, it felt easy, but I still got sore.

Does this mean that doing exercises you are not accustomed to could cause some growth?

We all know soreness is not a indicator of growth...but IMO it looks like it could be???

Discuss...</div>
Joe, here are a few of my own experiences based around your comments:

Last summer I took my lad and my niece for a 2 mile row along the coast... against the wind... then the wind changed for the return trip so I was rowing against it on the way back too. Now, I hadn't rowed a dinghy for about 15 years. Did I get sore? Why yes! BUT only may hands! Back and arms were absolutely fine. I was expecting that I would be sore as heck but any soreness was barely noticeable! So, my back training had been similar enough in functionality to actual rowing to mean that the low-intensity row had very little effect on the muscles involved.

On the other hand, I recently started jogging again during my cut. Got some slight soreness in my calves and inner-thighs (adductors, sartorius etc) after the first few runs. That makes sense as I have only been doing squats and deads for leg work recently. When I did some sprinting I got a bit more soreness in my inner-thighs only.

I wouldn't expect to grow from either of these two relatively 'low-intensity' activities (ie. rowing and jogging). Intensity and load (ie. strain on the muscle tissue) are way lower than what I am accustomed to in the gym. Some smaller muscle groups may not be worked as thoroughly through lifting and so they might be stimulated to grow a bit by low-intensity activities.

However, all in all, I feel that squatting, deadlifting, benching, dipping, rowing, chinning and pressing will pretty much cover all the bases and be all that anyone really needs for most muscles to be worked hard enough to grow if they put in the required effort and determination, volume, frequency and eat well.
 
Joe, consider my definition of exersize. It is activity that is above and beyond that to which you are presently accustomed. That for a couch potatoe is a walk. For a walker, a jog, and so forth.
But exersize is of course useless. That's like having a diet soda with a 3 course meal; you're not gonna get thin. Training, however, is consistent exersize, and as we all know, with progression to keep it within the definition of exersize, will cause hypertrophy to occur.
Yes, Virginia, it's a bit more than just &quot;Shut up and lift&quot;.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">However, all in all, I feel that squatting, deadlifting, benching, dipping, rowing, chinning and pressing will pretty much cover all the bases and be all that anyone really needs for most muscles to be worked hard enough to grow if they put in the required effort and determination, volume, frequency and eat well. </div>

I used to think that it is important to work every little muscle in the body separately to induce optimal hypertrophy. Now every time I perform an isolation movement I can't help feeling that I am just wasting my energy and time, when I could be squatting, deadlifting, dipping, chinning...

It's not that isolations do not have their place in a training program (especially for advanced athletes), but the basic compounds go WAY longer than most people think.

Mainly a bump to a great thread... Cheers, Fausto!

All the best,
Dimitris
 
I may be the reigning king of simple, here's my workout:



  Flat Bench
  Military Press
  BB Rows
  Dead Lift


   I've been using only these since september '06 and have seen much better gains in size AND strength then from before when I was doing a more &quot;typical&quot; workout.I have also used these 4 compounds in a 10 set by 3 rep 2 times a week program and made some of the largest strength jumps of my lifting &quot;career&quot; for lack of a better word.So yeah, I'm a HUGE believer in simplicity, and have also come to believe that it all really boils down to the dead lift  
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   And altho I'm only midway thru my second HST cycle, I've done straight up &quot;vanilla&quot; HST both times, in terms of reps ,sets ect. .

   Everytime the thought of a curl or something comes in to my head I just think &quot;that would take away  from my BB row&quot; ( current 1rm is around 1.25 to 1.5x my bodyweight)and it goes away...
 
Mainly a bump to a great thread... Cheers, Fausto!

I mainly got you guys started that's all,and yes...it has become onne of the best threads I have seen in this forum for a long time.

Ever since I started liting just 4 compounds alternated with 2 others, I hardly ever get to do isos, today however I felt like giving my arms two great supersets and it felt great...I actually missed the buggers...but it happens very seldom, the compounds have really looked after me well.

They're the best &quot;nany&quot; I've ever had.
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Russ

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> it all really boils down to the dead lift </div>

Count dracula may overhear you
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NO really...it is a great overall builder...no doubt.
 
hi

first of all, i must say that this board is great. the amount of usefull ideas and information being shared is totally amazing.

anyhow i am totally new to bodybuilding and gym. I am a bit of a weedy nerd and decided a few weeks ago to get into bodybuilding. I have joind a regular gym and have not seen any bodybuilders there at all.

i have spent a few weeks reading this and other BB boards and researching some basic muscle science.

i want get started on HST straight away and cannot figure out a routine. i like the idea of a a few compound exercises rather than spending hours each w/o. however, i cannot evel pull my meagere weight with chin-ups and that sort of thing, so i really need some advice.

what i need is a routine which (if possible) does not rely on bodyweight and will not take more than 1 1/2 hours per w/o. i do not have a partner, if that is relevant.

also, does it make sense to get started straight on HST, or should i just go to the gym and bash away like a madman for a while and see how far`that gets me first?

anyhow, a routine of a few exercises which hist every muscle would be ideal, so any help would be very very much appreciated.

thanks in advance!
sa
 
Make the meat of your workout barbell movements:

full squats-entire lower body
deadlifts-calves, thighs, traps, erectors, forearms
bench press-chest,deltoids,triceps
standing press-deltoids, triceps, abs, traps
bent rows-entire back, hamstrings, forearms, biceps

Some other good accessory work are chin-ups, dips, DB flyes or presses, DB rows, power cleans, wide-grip pulldowns, curls, skullcrushers, calf raises.

In my opinion stay away from fancy machines.  Cable machines are ok, hammer strength are ok, but mainly use barbells and dumbells.
 
Just go here and order Starting Strength. This will help teach you how to properly lift barbells, which 95% of gym members don't know worth crap. It also has a routine in it for newbies. I seriously recommend this book. It will get you started lifting with good form and build a base of mass and strength. I wish had read it years ago.
 
Good advice Sci! I think sometimes that out of all the people who go to gyms, maybe 10% or less could be considered bodybuilders, unless you're counting people who are dieting and just 'getting in shape'...and out of that 10%, only one knows anything worthwhile, or is at least not confused.
That's why this forum totally rocks!!! I have people asking me to design programs for them...I just steer them to HST - yer program is RIGHT 'CHERE !!!

An odd thought; I'm beginning to believe that if you do your core exersizes first, and a few iso's afterward, as needed, you have a program for noobies or elites. They just apply a little differently.
 
hey thanks for the replies Sci &amp; Quad... this forums rocks... thats 2 replies already... i was hoping to get a reply in a few days!

ok sci, i think i got the idea of your routine, but will the chins and bodywieght stuff, i dont think i can manage. will that matter?

thanks again guys
 
If you can't do chins, use a cable lat-pulldown machine or weight-assisted chinup machine.
If these are not available, just do partial chins until you can do a whole one. Or step on something and just hang in the contracted position at the top for as long as you can. Underhand shoulder-width grip is the best and develops strong arms and lats.
 
Welcome abb451

Here comes your third answer!
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Firstly <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">does it make sense to get started straight on HST, or should i just go to the gym and bash away like a madman for a while and see how far`that gets me first?</div>

This is never a good idea, HST will, in the least, teach you how to go about weight lifting with principles!

Besides that it will teach you how to go about incrementing weights as you progress, so that you don't become a madman and end up coming back here anyway
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Now...there are enough programs and suggestion on this thread alone, but as scientific muscle did a simple program there for you, with chins or dips and including solutions for those two anyway to get you there!

Take it up and give it a bash, then come back during or even after you done with the first 8 weeks and let us know how it went.
 
ok thanks again guys. i am going to get started trying to figure out rep maxes with scientific's programme.

as far as the 'accessories' are concerned, anyone care to narrow it down for me please? i would like to find a routine and stick to it methodically for at least the 8 weeks so i can keep a log with some decent accuracy.

thanks again guys for all the help.

PS i will try to put a weekly updated log on the internet somewhere, just in case anyone is interested in how a complete rookie fares with HST.
 
full squats - Power cage, but a squat rack does the job, a good solid Bar and weights.

deadlifts - A good bar and weights/ Trapbar is nice but very few gyms offer them.

bench press - A good bar, a sturdy adjustable bench, just high enough for feet to be planted solidly!

standing press - Barbell + Weights.

A lifting belt can help and a good pair of leather lifting gloves.

Patience + Quality Food + Sweat + Determination = Nicely Overall Muscled Body.

Hope this is what you're after, if not forgive my ignorance
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(scientific muscle @ Mar. 11 2007,16:27)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Just go here and order Starting Strength.  This will help teach you how to properly lift barbells, which 95% of gym members don't know worth crap.  It also has a routine in it for newbies.  I seriously recommend this book.  It will get you started lifting with good form and build a base of mass and strength.  I wish had read it years ago.</div>
I definitely have to get that book this summer. I can't afford it yet, but I am sure it will help me with the big movements, especially squats which I am struggling with currently. At least I am young!
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Wish this was stickied.... </div>

Could not agree more and it is not because I started it but because it became a great thread and we have recommended it so much that it is becoming a need to have!
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