This last cycle I only did 2 days of 15's, and so far, (starting 5's), I seem to be fine. My biggest problem with HST, and with training in general, is consistency. I've never been able to do more than two cycles back to back without something interrupting my training. Either illness, injury, exhaustion from work, or just life in general has stopped too many of my cycles before I even get to the 5's, then I have to SD and start over again. Because of this, I've decided if I'm only going to be able to get a few weeks of training in, I better do more of it in the heavier range than the lighter range. Others may be in a similar situation so I thought I'd throw this out there.
Skipping the 15s
- Thread starter jeffw
- Start date
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imported_dkm1987
Guest
I'm in the process of the same right now, my son is home for 30 days on leave and he wanted to do a cycle, so I had to fit it in his time frame. Suffice to say he's gain close to 10 lbs so far, 2.25 weeks. We did 3 workouts of 15's (working out 5 days/week) then linear increments from there. So far so good.[b said:
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imported_dkm1987
Guest
Both, I have him eating around 5000 cal a day, plus HST. He's 6'2" @ 170 today, when he got home he was 160.5. His metabolism is outrageous.
I think the 15s are okay to skip, but I would add them in every few cycles. Or just do one week at the beginning of your cycle instead of two. But if you have joint problems, it may not be a good idea. Also if you are cutting, I would definitely do the full two weeks of 15s.
cluelessgoon
New Member
Although this is only my 2nd HST cycle, I really enjoyed the 15's and think that I felt the benefit later in the cycle after the 5's. In fact, I liked them so much that I've started this cycle with 3 weeks of 15's! I really feel beaten up during heavy training, and this was a nice change.
Seeing that this oldish thread has popped up again I'll add my recent experience to the mix.
First cycle: 2 weeks of 15s as suggested. Really enjoyed them and felt ready for the heavy stuff.
Second cycle: 1 week of 20s and 1 week of 15s. I decided to just keep going with the lighter weights to really get a good burn. I had a few niggling joint pains left over from the 5s and negs but they have now completely cleared up! I did 20 reps for some of the second week where the weight still felt light enough. In fact, for my squats I managed to make 20 reps on the final workout even though the weight was up 20lbs over the first cycle (and I'm 2 stone heavier!
. And I didn't even reach failure!
So, for me, at the ripe old age of forty, a week of 20s followed by a week of 15s seems to work well before going heavier.
First cycle: 2 weeks of 15s as suggested. Really enjoyed them and felt ready for the heavy stuff.
Second cycle: 1 week of 20s and 1 week of 15s. I decided to just keep going with the lighter weights to really get a good burn. I had a few niggling joint pains left over from the 5s and negs but they have now completely cleared up! I did 20 reps for some of the second week where the weight still felt light enough. In fact, for my squats I managed to make 20 reps on the final workout even though the weight was up 20lbs over the first cycle (and I'm 2 stone heavier!
. And I didn't even reach failure!So, for me, at the ripe old age of forty, a week of 20s followed by a week of 15s seems to work well before going heavier.
Lately, I like to sort of blend the 15s in with the 5s. It sounds kind of weird, but basically what I do is start out in the 10s and progress like normal, though I've been clustering, so it's not really 10s and 5's, just kinda in that RM range...
Anyway, once I get beyond my 10 RM, I start doing 15s or 20s for all my compounds either immediately after my workout, or in many cases on my off days. The primary goal for me is to get metabolic work in. It seems to be working quite well for me - very little joint pain compared to when I used to do just 5s and no metabolic work. Also, on my offdays when I really want to work out, it's a good excuse to get to do a few sets.
Anyway, once I get beyond my 10 RM, I start doing 15s or 20s for all my compounds either immediately after my workout, or in many cases on my off days. The primary goal for me is to get metabolic work in. It seems to be working quite well for me - very little joint pain compared to when I used to do just 5s and no metabolic work. Also, on my offdays when I really want to work out, it's a good excuse to get to do a few sets.
personally i have cut the 15s down to 1 set per body part then as i go for 10s then 5s i do two sets per body part,i like to keep them cos they help me get the blood flowing and help ease myself into the heavy stuff.because i like to stick closer to my max's i tend to drop the reps every week ie:
week 1 16s
week 2 14s
week 3 12s...
i think you get the picture(although that is a rough example of my rep ranges),so all in all i lkie to keep the high reps for the above reasons.
week 1 16s
week 2 14s
week 3 12s...
i think you get the picture(although that is a rough example of my rep ranges),so all in all i lkie to keep the high reps for the above reasons.
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imported_etothepii
Guest
I just finished week one of the 15s in my second HST cycle. That combined with cardio has resulted in a loss of 4 pounds. I wasn't planning on cutting, I'm just not eating enough. But you know what? I kind of like seeing more of my abs!! So I'm continuing on the current course for another week. Then, when I begin the 10's, I'll increase the calories quite a bit and see what kind of gains I can make.
It wasn't until post 23, when Jester chimed in that I saw something sensible I was looking for. You take off 2 weeks, your 15's will be felt. Now, someone like Cheifhog on this page I expect will possibly suffer from joint problems later on, lacking the medicinal effect of the highrep work, but also possibly not, as many PL's work FAR lower than that unopposed.
Tot puts some good thoughts on other uses for them here.
I think that one difference to consider is that if you're a 190 lb. lifter, coming in to something like 215x15x2, you'll need the 15's a lot more than a guy the same weight who is coming in doing 150x15x2. At the same time, if the second guy is a noob, he SHOULD do the 15's for other reasons as well, like technique.
Everybody thinks they've "got it" until they're shown better. And highrep practice will show you better.
Tot puts some good thoughts on other uses for them here.
I think that one difference to consider is that if you're a 190 lb. lifter, coming in to something like 215x15x2, you'll need the 15's a lot more than a guy the same weight who is coming in doing 150x15x2. At the same time, if the second guy is a noob, he SHOULD do the 15's for other reasons as well, like technique.
Everybody thinks they've "got it" until they're shown better. And highrep practice will show you better.
Wow! Mega old thread! Last time I posted in this thread I was young!
With a bit more experience now, I still find 15s useful and beneficial but with a few caveats:
1) I don't start 15s with loads lighter than ~75% of my 15RM.
2) I don't ordinarily do 15s for exercises requiring an above average component of skill, eg. Oly lifts. If I ever do 15 reps for cleans, I use a weight that's light enough to allow me to do so without losing form (much) and treat it as a metcon type exercise.
3) For a 15RM workout*, I try to be careful not to push for that extra rep if my form has started to drop off - especially now that I am getting older and more brittle! That's when injuries are most likely. In fact, I think I'm just as likely to get injured pushing for a new 15RM as I am for a new 5RM. This is most likely for big compound movements, like deads or squats where a lot of weight can be handled even for 15 reps.
I never understand why some folks find the 15s easy. Sometimes my 15RM attempts are with loads that are between 75 and 80% of my 1RM. For me, a 15RM workout is often the most brutal part of an HST cycle.
* RM workouts do not have to be all-out, gut-busting, max attempts (as by default, you would be working towards a load that was your previous RM anyway). However, I like to add ~5 pounds to a previous RM lift to see if I can get it. With zig-zag incorporated in a cycle there is a bit of time to overcome the extra fatigue carried forward form an all-out session. It works for me and it makes a cycle more fun. If I'm adding weight to the bar cycle-on-cycle I know I'm making progress.
With a bit more experience now, I still find 15s useful and beneficial but with a few caveats:
1) I don't start 15s with loads lighter than ~75% of my 15RM.
2) I don't ordinarily do 15s for exercises requiring an above average component of skill, eg. Oly lifts. If I ever do 15 reps for cleans, I use a weight that's light enough to allow me to do so without losing form (much) and treat it as a metcon type exercise.
3) For a 15RM workout*, I try to be careful not to push for that extra rep if my form has started to drop off - especially now that I am getting older and more brittle! That's when injuries are most likely. In fact, I think I'm just as likely to get injured pushing for a new 15RM as I am for a new 5RM. This is most likely for big compound movements, like deads or squats where a lot of weight can be handled even for 15 reps.
I never understand why some folks find the 15s easy. Sometimes my 15RM attempts are with loads that are between 75 and 80% of my 1RM. For me, a 15RM workout is often the most brutal part of an HST cycle.
* RM workouts do not have to be all-out, gut-busting, max attempts (as by default, you would be working towards a load that was your previous RM anyway). However, I like to add ~5 pounds to a previous RM lift to see if I can get it. With zig-zag incorporated in a cycle there is a bit of time to overcome the extra fatigue carried forward form an all-out session. It works for me and it makes a cycle more fun. If I'm adding weight to the bar cycle-on-cycle I know I'm making progress.