Tabata with stationary bike

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(Fausto @ Apr. 22 2007,07:00)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">2 - It raises the metabolism for way longer than your standard aerobic exercise. According to Dr. Tabata's write up burns up to 9 times more fat than standard aerobics, however once off on the bike (mine registers about 40 calories burn't) it does not burn all that much.</div>
You mean it raises the metabolism and you burn many calories AFTER the exercise. Correct?

8x20=160 secs of max effort, cannot burn too many calories.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">What About Fat Loss?

Angelo Tremblay, Ph.D., and his colleagues at the Physical Activities Sciences Laboratory, Laval University, Quebec, Canada, challenged the common belief among health professionals that low-intensity, long-duration exercise is the best program for fat loss. They compared the impact of moderate-intensity aerobic exercise and high-intensity aerobics on fat loss. (Metabolism (1994) Volume 43, pp.814-818)

The Canadian scientists divided 27 inactive, healthy, non-obese adults (13 men, 14 women, 18 to 32 years old) into two groups. They subjected one group to a 20-week endurance training (ET) program of uninterrupted cycling 4 or 5 times a week for 30 to 45 minutes; the intensity level began at 60% of heart rate reserve and progressed to 85%. (For a 30-year-old, this would mean starting at a heart rate of about 136 and progressing to roughly 170 bpm, which is more intense than usually prescribed for weight or fat loss.)

The other group did a 15-week program including mainly high-intensity-interval training (HIIT). Much like the ET group, they began with 30-minute sessions of continuous exercise at 70% of maximum heart rate reserve (remember, they were not accustomed to exercise), but soon progressed to 10 to 15 bouts of short (15 seconds progressing to 30 seconds) or 4 to 5 long (60 seconds progressing to 90 seconds) intervals separated by recovery periods allowing heart rate to return to 120-130 beats per minute. The intensity of the short intervals was initially fixed at 60% of the maximal work output in 10 seconds, and that of the long bouts corresponded to 70% of the individual maximum work output in 90 seconds. Intensity on both was increased 5% every three weeks.

As you might expect, the total energy cost of the ET program was substantially greater than the HIIT program. The researchers calculated that the ET group burned more than twice as many calories while exercising than the HIIT program.

But (surprise, surprise) skinfold measurements showed that the HIIT group lost more subcutaneous fat. &quot;Moreover,&quot; reported the researchers, &quot;when the difference in the total energy cost of the program was taken into account..., the subcutaneous fat loss was ninefold greater in the HIIT program than in the ET program.&quot; In short, the HIIT group got 9 times more fat-loss benefit for every calorie burned exercising.

How can that be?

Dr. Tremblay's group took muscle biopsies and measured muscle enzyme activity to determine why high-intensity exercise produced so much more fat loss. I'll spare you the details (they are technical and hard to decipher), but this is their bottom line: &quot;[Metabolic adaptations resulting from HIIT] may lead to a better lipid utilization in the postexercise state and thus contribute to a greater energy and lipid deficit.&quot; In other words, compared to moderate-intensity endurance exercise, high- intensity intermittent exercise causes more calories and fat to be burned following the workout. Citing animal studies, they also said it may be that appetite is suppressed more following intense intervals. (Neither group was placed on a diet.)

The next time someone pipes up about the fat-burn zone, ask them if they are familiar with the Tabata and Tremblay research reports.

[You'll find high-intensity aerobic workouts for bodybuilding in Ripped 3 and for balanced fitness, strength and endurance, in Lean For Life; both books are in the products section of this site. Routines specifically applying Tabata-type intervals are explained in chapter 5 of Challenge Yourself. Keep in mind that VO2max can only be measured in the laboratory; you'll have to estimate 170% of VO2 max. Don't try to make it too complicated.  Simply chose a pace that brings you near exhaustion on the final 20-second rep; you should become more fatigued with each rep. Increase the pace as your condition improves. It's always better to underestimate your ability at the start. Begin a little slower than you think you can handle, and then adjust the pace from workout to workout. Don't attempt high-intensity intervals unless you are in good condition; they're not appropriate for beginners.</div>
 
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(bobpit @ Apr. 22 2007,12:17)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">You mean it raises the metabolism and you burn many calories AFTER the exercise. Correct?</div>
Yes, that's what he means. Obviously, that's a good thing during a bulk... wait, it isn't. Take Morgoth's advice and don't do Tabata during a bulk. If you are worried about cardio fitness, do SS cardio or something. Bulking is not the time to be doing stuff like Tabata. If you are having a problem with getting too fat when you bulk, you are eating too much.
 
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(Fausto @ Apr. 22 2007,12:00)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Ok guys, they call me king but it isn't so...I just like the idea of Tabata
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I've been rather lazy of late. But will soon start again.

Here's the take:

1 - It increases your aerobic fitness, specially your VOmax intake and capacity, which is the ability of your lungs to retain oxygen or absorb it, not about to debate this anyway.

2 - It raises the metabolism for way longer than your standard aerobic exercise. According to Dr. Tabata's write up burns up to 9 times more fat than standard aerobics, however once off on the bike (mine registers about 40 calories burn't) it does not burn all that much.

3 - Any modality will suit it, squats, deads, clean and press, punching bag (alo quite nice), running stationary cycle (My preference).

4 - I'm really into this 4 minute thing, it kicks major ass and is quickly over, beats 30 - 60 minutes big time IMO.
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as this guy pointed out fausto concerning 2) 9 times more fat than low intensity cardio ie walking etc.

To be honest, you won't burn as many fat calorie's doing HIIT as cardio in most cases. A 20minute HIIT will burn around 200-300 calorie's if done intensely. Whereas a 40minute cardio will burn around 600-700.

The hope is though that HIIT will cause muscle reapair/growth which increases metabolism, burns exra calorie's above cardio - just as per weight training.

That is definitely true, and anyone new to HIIT should get that effect for the first few months, but then it will slow down. That assumes you EAT ENOUGH and REST ENOUGH to allow muscle growth, which from what I see, most people aren't.

So why do studies show HIIT burning more fat?
There's only a couple of studies, and the methods and results in detail don't show that infact. The main point was HIIT is more TIME efficient i.e. your burning fat faster, but not necessarily more of it, this will come out later as papers are peer reviewed more.
Also most studies are only measuring this 'initial effect', when the quick gains are made.

I'm not saying HIIT is no good, I'm just pointing out people are misunderstanding and hyping these studies and EPOC way beyond what the results show.

I know from myself, HIIT does work for fat loss, but cardio works just as well if not better if done intensely( not low intensity as per HIIT studies).
 
I did Tabata with hindu squats yesterday, because who wouldn't want to be able to get cardio out of the way in 4 minutes? Well, I made it 2.5 minutes before deciding to quit and live to try for 4 another day. It's hard as **** especially if you are not in good cardio shape, as I apparently am not.
 
I was thinking. I read in some places about doing cardio 10-15 minutes after a weight wo. Sorry, I don't even know the purpose of it. I never did it because I thought I would make myself too tired when I needed the most to recuperate.

Lately I came to appreciate the benefits of high reps to increase blood flow and recuperation (like the HSS-100 wo). What if I do 1-2 x 20 sec sessions Tabata-style after the weight training? Increase my pulse to 165 for a little and pump blood to the entire body, to flush nutrients? Is this a good idea?


I also had my first try on Tabata yesterday. I used Thrusters with 4,5 kgr Dumbels. But I let my hands extend down when I was squating down. I managed 3x20sec sessions. 12 reps in each session.
 
Look, you obviously want to do this, irrespective of what you`ll see being posted here. Why not try it and see how it turns out?I think it`s counterproductive to your goals, others think differently, but ultimately, you`re the highest authority on this...if it works, sooper dooper, if it doesn`t, you`ll know not to do it again.
 
Yes, I like to experiment, I like to take advice from experienced and knowledgeable people, I like to use new ideas based on science.

I experimented today with several high intensity 15-25 sec intervals just before my HST workout. My HR (Heart Rate) went 160-170, MaxHR=179.

It was the 6th day of 10s. I did 2x8x110 kgr DL, I was hoping for 2x10x110 kgr. I think I was more tired than normal. No more intense cardio before weights.

Just after the first set of 8x110 kgr DL, my HR was 180! Even doing DB curls, my HR went to 170. The entire weight-lifting session my HR never dropped bellow 115.

So I don't think doing very intense cardio pre or post a weight training session makes sense.
 
bobpit

My opinion? Do Tabata any way you wish, 8 reps (comes to 4 minutes)...20 secs hard and fast, 10 seconds slow and easy...on off days.
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Doing it before or after weight training is going to steal efficiency from the workout!
 
do it on non weight days preferably,if you have to do cardio do it after weights and IMO ss-cardio.
if you are doing weights you are already using EPOC which means you are burning carbs so to do HIIT which also uses EPOC means you are burning more sugar,and possibly muscle.
if you do ss-cardio after and keep your heartrate low &quot;not carb burning&quot; then you could possibly take advantage of burning some fat,once you go above a certain heartrate &quot;depends on individuals&quot; lets say 135bpm you then use carbs which you are already probably depleted of because of the weights session.
 
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