triceps

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scientific muscle

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I have been training without any arm isolations and while my biceps are growing from supinated chinups, my triceps are not much from the compound presses.

Basically I feel I get my biceps work from pulling compounds and triceps work from pushing compounds....but recently I noticed my buddy had bigger arms than me even though I outweigh him and can lift more than him. We noticed that mainly the larger girth was from the inner large head of the triceps muscle, he explained that he does pushdowns and other triceps exercises...I decided to try pushdowns and saw that I was pretty weak at them and thus the smaller triceps! I am stronger than him on bench press and military press due to my bigger delts and pecs, but I mistakenly thought I was fully working out the triceps muscles in these exercises.
Needless to say I added pushdowns and dumbell curls to my routine!
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I also found that I have to do additional tricep work to get them to grow. My biceps keep growing, but my triceps lag behind for some reason. It's strange, I think, since most guys seem to have no problem with triceps, but they always talk about their biceps not growing or looking small, etc etc.

I prefer to use a close grip bench press and then some sort of overhead extension to get a stretch. It seems to be working, but kind of early in my cycle to tell. Let me know how your setup goes. Maybe I'll try pushdowns next cycle.
 
Actually totentanz, arms are possibly my best bodypart which is one reason why I didn't bother training them...and I actually prefer big, beautiful triceps over big biceps, but I am finding out that like you my biceps are growing better than triceps, but I really think that is due to my training routine...after seeing my buddy had only one part of his arm bigger than mine (inner tricep head) and all due to the fact that he pushdowns more than me, I think I have found the missing link! Try pushdowns, but be careful as they really stress the elbows if done with full ROM. I only use the bottom range of motion, if you let your arms bend too much during pushdowns, the stress comes off the muscles and hits the tendons- ouch!
 
Not that I'm all that big anywhere, but I'm one of those who seem to get as much benefit for my triceps from bench pressing as I do for my delts and pecs.

Along with individual differences in build, there are lots of differences in how people do various pressing movements. For bench in particular, people vary from narrow to wide grip, what point on the chest they lower the bar to, etc. I think you can get a lot of variation in which muscles are most emphasized by changing those things.

Interesting point about the different heads of the triceps being activated differently. I wonder if it has to do with how the arm is rotated in locking out a pressing movement, versus how you lock out in doing pushdowns.
 
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(Lifting N Tx @ Aug. 16 2006,23:07)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Interesting point about the different heads of the triceps being activated differently.  I wonder if it has to do with how the arm is rotated in locking out a pressing movement, versus how you lock out in doing pushdowns.</div>
-EXACTLY!
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My killer combo for tris is heavy weighted dips and an overhead extension movement. It's worked well for the last 4 cycles. This cycle I am not bothering to start doing extensions and curls until 10s.

I am pushing the poundages up each cycle too. This cycle I will be using 120lb dbell for dips and 110lb bar for overheads during 5s. I started out with 75lb for dips and 80lb for extensions. My bodyweight has gone up about 40lbs over four cycles so the amount I am now dipping with is more than it would appear.
 
the arms are a must imo.my outer tri's were the biggest part of my arm with no inner tricep and not much bicep developement,so i started doing heavy dumbell pullovers for my tri's and boom they popped out nicely. and the supinated chins are excellent for bicep mass.people are different long heads and short heads etc develope more in some people and less in others just find the weekness's in your arms and go after fixing it.
 
i isolate my triceps in my program aswell, i was doing skull crushers untill i started getting a sharp pain in my left elbow so i soon canned them, i'm now doing tri kick backs (with lots of control and locking my elbow by my side, not the way people normaly do them by swinging at the shoulder aswell
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) i find them alot harder and burn alot more then the normal pushdowns but are they good at working the tricep as a whole??...
 
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(WEBBER @ Aug. 18 2006,00:35)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">sorry very general question i'll norrow it down abit.
Are they any good for mass building?</div>
Look at the load you can use and the ROM you are using it for. My feeling would be that you get little stretch (not great for hypertrophy) and the loads you can use are 'lightish' (also not great for hypertrophy).

Have you tried overhead tri extensions after a good warm up? I use an EZ-curl bar and find that the stress on my elbows is minimised even during my heaviest sets.

Weighted dips and overhead triceps extensions will give you good and continued growth if you keep upping the loads and get your eating right.
 
That opens up another discussion LOL...! I find that I can do skulls really heavy, but overhead presses with the same bar...no way! So therefore, I would assume that if one can DO skulls, they are better for hypertrophy..?
 
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(Lol @ Aug. 19 2006,17:40)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(WEBBER @ Aug. 18 2006,00:35)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">sorry very general question i'll norrow it down abit.
Are they any good for mass building?</div>
Look at the load you can use and the ROM you are using it for. My feeling would be that you get little stretch (not great for hypertrophy) and the loads you can use are 'lightish' (also not great for hypertrophy).

Have you tried overhead tri extensions after a good warm up? I use an EZ-curl bar and find that the stress on my elbows is minimised even during my heaviest sets.

Weighted dips and overhead triceps extensions will give you good and continued growth if you keep upping the loads and get your eating right.</div>
for the most part i agree about overhead tricep extentions but dumbell pullovers(or maybe french press)allow you to stretch the tricep more as you go behind the head,and in doing so place slightly less pressure on the elbow joint.i think because your abs chest and lats tie the whole movement together.ive done these religiously for about 6 months with no joint issues.and a huge difference in tricep thickness.i think they work very well for inner tricep developement
 
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(quadancer @ Aug. 20 2006,04:01)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">That opens up another discussion LOL...! I find that I can do skulls really heavy, but overhead presses with the same bar...no way! So therefore, I would assume that if one can DO skulls, they are better for hypertrophy..?</div>
Ah yes! But I have no doubt that you could lift more with either of those exercises than you could with kickbacks? Overhead presses have an increased range of motion as compared with skulls so you tend to be able to shift more weight. Keeping your elbows out a bit (ie. not against your head) can help with overheads. It makes the press less of an iso but it definitely places less strain on your elbows and you can use more weight.

I like what Icars says too. I try to really push my elbows back when doing the presses to get as much stretch as possible.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I have been training without any arm isolations and while my biceps are growing from supinated chinups, my triceps are not much from the compound presses.

Basically I feel I get my biceps work from pulling compounds and triceps work from pushing compounds....but recently I noticed my buddy had bigger arms than me even though I outweigh him and can lift more than him. We noticed that mainly the larger girth was from the inner large head of the triceps muscle, he explained that he does pushdowns and other triceps exercises...I decided to try pushdowns and saw that I was pretty weak at them and thus the smaller triceps! I am stronger than him on bench press and military press due to my bigger delts and pecs, but I mistakenly thought I was fully working out the triceps muscles in these exercises.
Needless to say I added pushdowns and dumbell curls to my routine!
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Do not get confused with size and strength....strength depends on MU recruitment while hypertorphy comes from time under tension. As your strength increases it is only natural that a little hypertrophy is induced but it is not optimal.

Now hes stronger in tricep pulldowns eh? That exercise has a dif ROM meaning dif MU's recruited so if u havent been doin that exercise then of course he will outdo u when uve only been pressin all day. What did u think? U hit ure triceps on a press now u think u can conquer pulldowns?  
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I quit doing the pushdowns, couldn't use enough load....I switched to close-grip DB bench presses, heavily loads the triceps without straining elbows....same as close-grip barbell bench presses, but hold the dumbells together palms facing.

Killroy on the Max-stim forum told me about this exercise in a thread there where we were discussing the best triceps exercise, I remember this one ended up being the decided winner in that forum. I forgot about it for awhile, but after trying every exercise under the sun for triceps, simple close-grip bench presses are the best for me.

(almost exactly like close-grip dips, either one can be used effectively.)
 
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(scientific muscle @ Sep. 13 2006,22:07)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I quit doing the pushdowns, couldn't use enough load....I switched to close-grip DB bench presses, heavily</div>
One thing about tricep pushdowns. Seems like most guys do tri pushdowns on one of those stacks that you do crossovers for your pecs, and various other exercises for shoulders, etc. So, while the number on the stack might say 120 lbs, you're actually only doing 60 lbs. 120 lbs is the weight of both stacks together. This is why I do my tri pushdowns on the same stack that I use for lat pulldowns. I think you'll find that you can get enough 'load' if you do that.
 
No, not that I couldn't get enough load literally, but the angle of triceps flexion/extension, put undue stress on my elbows and I couldn't use the heavy weights I wanted to because of this, also I didn't feel my triceps working that much in the pushdowns, mostly felt strain on the tendon insertion-point in the forearm.
With close-grip presses/dips, I can use a huge load, elbows don't hurt much, but triceps swell with blood and are tired afterward.

Good point about the cable-crossover machine though Steve, but I was using a lat-pulldown machine.
 
as for kickbacks, I've always though of them as a shaping exersize, not a mass builder, because you simply can't use heavy poundages effectively with them.

And as for something SM said in the beginning of the thread; I think we should never compare ourselves to another lifter. There are simply too many differences genetically, and unless we're in competition, the only one we compete with is ourselves. As for comparing exersizes and techniques, well that is the stuff that achieves our goals.
I have one goal: do my best as often as I can.
 
Lie on a bench, hold the dumbells firmly together with your palms facing eachother. Then just press up and down like regular bench press, since the dumbells are pressed together, there is much more elbow movement than a regular bench and thus it really hits the triceps, feels very similar to close-grip dips.
You can use a barbell and just do bench presses but with your hands close together on the bar.
 
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